O&E Break Downs and Title Report Costs | Real Estate Notes Show
Episode 13 · January 12, 2017 · Real Estate Notes Show with Dave Putz & Nathan Turner
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+ Google Calendar+ Apple / OutlookOn the Real Estate Notes Show, hosts Dave Putz and Nathan Turner discuss with Alex from a title and lien search company how O&E reports and title dashboards are priced, with costs ranging from $75-$150 per report depending on portfolio size. The episode covers the critical importance of understanding lien positions, mechanic's liens, and second mortgage searches to mitigate risk in note investing.
How much does it cost to get a dashboard report?
Dashboard reports cost $150 per order for portfolios smaller than 30 assets. Individual O&E reports cost $75-$80 per report, so purchasing 10 reports totals around $750-$800, with an additional $150 if you want the dashboard included with the analysis.
What does an O&E report check for?
O&E reports run a 50-point checklist that verifies lien positions, checks for adverse variations, deed records, local and state tax liens, HOA status, redeemable states, mobile homes, and property details. The report categorizes findings by risk level including severe, informational, and unresolved issues.
What is the critical issue with mechanic's liens?
Mechanic's liens become dangerous when the date goods were delivered to the property is earlier than the mortgage recording date. If goods are delivered first and the mortgage is recorded after, the mechanic's lien can become a first position lien and hurt your position.
Key takeaways
- O&E dashboard reports cost $150 and individual reports cost $75-$80 per asset
- Mechanic's liens are critical to evaluate based on goods delivery date versus mortgage recording date
- Second lien searches cost $45 per asset; unsecured asset searches available for $1 per asset with full reports at $4,000
- O&E reports cover 90% of title risk; additional $35 per report covers code violations and township searches for the remaining 10%
- Water and sewer utility balances can attach as junior liens in township-governed areas and must be paid before foreclosure sale
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Frequently asked questions
Why is the date of goods delivered critical for mechanic's liens?
If goods are delivered to a property before the mortgage is recorded, the mechanic's lien takes priority and can become a first position lien, superseding the mortgage holder's position. This is why comparing the goods delivery date to the mortgage recording date is essential.
Can title insurance be purchased for note investments?
Title insurance is extremely expensive and unnecessary for note buyers. Since the previous property owner's lender obtained title insurance before the sale, the title was already verified. Note buyers only need to examine the chain of title from that point forward using an O&E report.
What happens if you buy a note without checking second lien position?
Without checking second lien position status, you may purchase an unsecured second mortgage that lost its collateral due to first mortgage foreclosure, deed in lieu, or bankruptcy. This renders the second position worthless.
Topics: title & lien searchdue diligencenon-performing notesfirst lienssecond liensdefault managementforeclosure
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Full transcript
Read the full episode transcript
okay so let me start sharing again there you go hey Virginia you were asking a question how much does it cost to to get the dashboard yeah report like that yeah so so we charge 150 order smaller than 30 assets yeah the overall for report or house whatever yeah / dashboard so I'm not thinking about all in the airports I will jump with this tool only in a second but let me just give you a quick flavor of what we deliver to guys like like Jack hold of it will be make sure you mean it's 150 a year for us to have a dashboard of 158 for one 154 wat wil one dashboard so let's say you buy 10 loans okay i can give you oniy reports we charge 80 75 / report correct ok so it's 10 times 87 95 you're not getting the dashboard if you would like to have the desk work for those 10 reports with our analysis it'll cost hundred and fifty bucks telfair all the reports onion kid debug folder region he has the ball the one ball yep cash flow for water baseplate or order so we get another ten in another six weeks or every order we get vu it's a buck 50 for every order we put in okay the three loans orbit 21 everyone we make the color of showers for that back sides now what battle exam yeah that's the time span by our staff to put this together so let me just give you a flavor of what would deliver to Jack so you know what we have and what you can tap into when you buy when you buy notes and you start growing about first off vandalize all domestic issues by our risk level code severe informational unresolved and so on we give you a 50 check wait list where media pass and fail criteria on only chasov and the chance of there's one line okay so we checked for the adverse variation we jacket the boar we're still on the deed attack if the world is the mortgage will check with local taxes I rest me and state tax liens mobile homes and so on so we run through the position check for a second and so on we verify if the property is a part of the HOA super lean States part of the text is redeemable States we give you the information on all the property now original lender glass assignee wrecker we will give you all the scraps for the links which is will tell you all the jewelry in total so the senior new totals all the IRS lien totals before and after the subject mortgage and why we break it in that way is because the final policy protects you from anything that's before the mortgage okay title policy protects you for any lien that's before the mortgage so provide the lien before the mortgage you can file a Title frame and get payment alright anything after the mortgage you're exposed to all right then which is for IRS links state tax liens and described HOA means sitting these billions water sewer means mechanic's liens which can hurt you and become a first position name support other names what they can mechanically become a first position in any state really you know the case of the killer case where mechanic's lien can hurt you okay is when and this is Erica it listen very carefully the faith of the goods delivered to the property is earlier than the recording date of the mortgage oh it has to be before that leans recorded go away with it look I repeated the date of the goods delivered not the mechanic seamless report oh and in the report in the fendi judgment oh the mortgage record after the goods are delivered then you're in trouble oh so the goods recorded is it good delivered on whatever first and the moist is required on December second you're in trouble yeah so that we both kind of thing yeah so so you really when you have a mechanic's lien first of all you need to know who your report that this lien type is mechanic's lien very first thing you do is look at the language of the mechanics name them say does it have a date of the goods delivered if you compare that date to the recording date of the mortgage Wow oh god having no other things like that little area that we may not be aware of that you would recommend us know it ah use awesome you'll be okay we'll keep I here this is our reports oh it has our logo what a post our report is it clear or blurry ugc is simple boring it's ours so um ok so you guys older than the poor alone or 518 2016 nothing in California I'll go fast ok I'll show you three reports that look that you were there from us some things that I see here alright so we break anything by section this is one instrument one deed latasha Thompson owns the property she is also a Boer War as an unmarried woman God the mortgage no.5 let seeing with nurse then there was single assignment in 13 from us to Wells Fargo's a trustee ok so far so good I don't see anything wrong second or is she seemed mortgage number two so it's cleared all right eight thousand dollars ok so I'm good right now there's two mortgages what is the one that you're probably buying and the second is the second mortgage so that thousand how you want donnan Jim bought the second we are we on to save it is when I went into foreclosure but enough foreclosure or bankruptcy with this dip a she's paying a plan so yeah okay 13 of it yeah alright so you know you build a second there's a product that same we service 21 okay hold second position mortgage assignment search for 45 bucks so you don't have to you don't have to pay a full-blown only report now and when you buy a stack of seconds they just flash something in front of you and you'll say what is that much bigger though we offer for the second lien market a search for dollar okay one dollar one asset so what we do there is if you be done without masses will tell you with the ninety percent accuracy which assets are already unsecured well 4,000 bucks i'll give you a report on how good that portfolio is not so guys like Joe Roberts book one you know anybody in this market is is using us for that debt service 30 taking speed for those are none notable why would a second me come onto yours ah so what are they advance that make second unsecured let's go through it for close over the first tags need okay bankruptcy ruler pho a deed all right I'm useful deep ok so those are the common events for the most part so my understanding of the second market and Jim you correct me if I'm wrong um the price significantly berries if you have a second with the first not in foreclosure differ significantly when the first is in foreclosure and real pennies when the second position is unsecured yeah yep right now our search here hold second lien Morgan some research x for mortgage in some researches of the second lien checks if the first as in foreclosure or not or foreclose on the property or there any deeds at unsecured a second and this is actual search for 45 bucks this one well okay you know what I also I do is for those again our message k here's what would you give a description of those who are titled vs 0 NE reports combine notes where some of you here are you some prime real estate so knowing your poor is completely foreign to them and we talk a lot of Saladin seid or lawyers they have no clue that only report is how would you scribe it isn't sweet a title and Oni and the benefits of it well for the node buyer I think only internal report is the same thing if you're talking about the current on the search current on the title report typically when you're in battle in the street on report maybe a title insurance search which typically goes back in time 30 40 years and 60 years in PA okay you don't need that you don't need to go you don't need to go that far all you need is the best indeed forward search which is called a card on search for unknown e typically that type of search is used for the refi but not for the closing so if you are in buying real estates you familiar with the closing transactions you are familiar with the sheriff sales and getting the title insurance you're getting the title insurable report which is going backstage stature based on each state there's required number of years you have to go back and verify there's no prior liens no for our mortgages and so on for no buyers you don't need to do that you just need to look at the Destiny it forward assuming that you have a title policy rimmel goodbye okay so what that means that if there's a federal court on the actual mortgage itself in the cellar they already man title and as queen before they bought the property is clear before they bought the property the whole matter for per copy that I was clear now he's buying from that point lower you own a right cuz you don't need title because it or he has a warranty when the borrower bought the property at the mortgage yeah good question alright so that was our second position due diligence report don't have anything else on seconds just to give you a flavor on how our report for the second would look so basically it's a mortgage in silent search and we would say something like this second position secured first position not in foreclosure ok so that's what guys like poop one and you know robert is looking for when they buy these type of reports from us all right so which saves you money you don't have to pay only price or you don't have to pay anything else but the fee for this report because you're buying second and this is one of the ails you it's a market often for weight viewing oh I see mark I just so much hey Mark DC me I see you mr.
gold offski how I record awesome how you guys doing good good good all right so let me let me see so uh dated i will look at one more report or you want to switch them to mark next I think general question way of us needs to be questions right there to a ready reference the Oni report again it's all be recorded so am I look yeah when Alex did take your time as happy hour just started out here Oh any report it's done on commercial property at all the questions do you hear ya yes we do they're a little bit more expensive I'd like to think that we have the majority market share in the commercial no business with service fannie mae commercial loan sales with service all the active buyers boom dead x or bank of america or mission capital those guys this is a very very active market when you see a lot of deep sand and the peaks in seconds market or in you know in the first edition of market commercial market is very steady it's every month there's just steady amount of work so i don't see that market is going away more it's dropping or peeking it's just very very steady market so we're going any reports for those guys as well we do the title dashboards they're more complex the more things to verify you really need to be an expert to to go into commercial space yeah question I know behind miss conversation I won't know the present the last month he works or not never again my letting might have ever get the scoop on that assumption one spirit anymore all right here's a good question it's I'm paid nobody was telling me of an idiot for patiently fight until in their dad beat okay hear me hold one sec of a man like the guy who was far away there's a criminal right somebody's to repeat the question okay am I might be the question yes yes i bought a note with david last month and my lawyer said to me I'm not I don't want you buying any more toast without a full clear titles they said we knowing there's a clear title on the property or a clear title attached to the notes or to the law he doesn't want me to do that anymore this is the oniy as far as even started ninety percent not a hundred percent and shoulders and your take on that in terms of what you deal with refusing it doesn't adjust what to do yummy ass ok so I'm going to ask a question a little bit different way I do a lot of real estate where people actually buy regular title and and they get the insurance for the mortgage company but they won't take knows their their own insurance okay as the person that flying is so it'll be a lot cheaper when they just need to get it or the lender so I guess follow up to the question is that type of coverage available through your company ah so that's an area for the question and everybody should ask that question how am i insured as an investment okay so luckily both rdsa care as they are as the missions insurance which guarantees the accuracy of our report and we don't shy away from putting it up when we make an error ok how many claims did we have in the past 10 years 0 okay why because we don't outsource and all of our folks are I call them commercially graded searcher which means they can handle very complex commercial files and for them residential piles of peanuts now your tummy is right if the title search that he is looking at doesn't give them a confidence or comfort level two now okay I think you're covering all the bases and I just repeated in the beginning of our chair that only report only gives you ah your attorneys like ninety percent if you don't do a homework of township level searches you are still exposed to the ten percent work of things that can hurt you and those are code violations code enforcement cleans incorrect employer for example not a lot of people know that if you don't renew your lease pendants okay are you will be utilized by the city one hundred and fifty dollars per day ok so that information is not recorded in a county office but it's reported that the city of Miami for example so you need to know those local things to guarantee yourself that you've covered one hundred percent so you're saying that by Oregon ona you're not cover one hundred percent so his attorney is right in the same do not buy a note without sighing a federal full title report to be a lot of return confidence knowledge economy ninety percent because I think what he's saying is that last ten percent could be filed after the search is done you know the church being done no no just really let me rephrase it a different way all right so what your attorney is saying is by title insurance in the no business nobody by the battle insurance it's way too expensive it's an overkill I 30 makes money if title company makes money you you get a loss so we service a hedge funds that by in thousands you know three thousand ten thousand loans all right and they rely on us to deliver a final report to be hundred percent certain so we are covering you ninety percent of day of the stuff that can hurt you the ten percent you should know okay we can cover you for that ten percent as well we charge 35 bucks per extra report remember I said code violation Township search demolition and textile reporting which are stratified box to cover you on that front now the only thing that will hurt you or cut virtue would answer balance and means okay um what else could what what mean and sewer utility yeah but you'll see a most of report tells over you all be a report right so what you need to know is in fifty percent of United States and its governed by townships nautical counties townships okay the motor sort of balance not the name will attach to the property after the foreclosure okay so here's an example in the in Philadelphia for example all right the utility services are rendered by the city and vehicle to see the name for municipal charges okay if you don't pay the gas water electric and and sewer you will not be able to open a new account for the buyer of the foreclosed properties until you pay off the balance so that def goes out of your pocket all right now in Bucks County chance to Delaware no such thing all the services provided by what pico and I don't know who ever served the third party providers those names of balances are considered junior to your mortgage so you really need to know the jurisdiction you're buying and how the water and sewer balances applied their property makes us yeah how does it make you feel regards to your any stain don't buy no without full title he's maintaining his / shell and he's saying that there are things you can miss with a typical general ona he can cover the other ten percent if you don't forget it was back to park yeah yeah but this when you foreclose it's credible also title or foreclosure easily so in the world notes we don't pull it all because if the note came with a title insurance when the overbought we aiming for I as the owner doesn't even grander landline I mean every time to do something like you say 90 per second time a very tight no divine right as a warning that step hello what's going to be exhausted the landline is hoping the couch our land line on a 10,000 yeah really choose a few roi yeah that's all times in the door or like you know like remember situation where you 500 don't forget that is your ownership enemy vacation I hope this on the keeps ya a hundred scale card you notified when she know about power I'll start which doesn't entitle situation you get you at as well I'll tell you in a typical situation but I think what Europe your percentages are wrong because he's not saying that i'd say ninety percent and the other ten percent is going to be wrong what happens the utterance and there may be of the business belief in optical and I mean I'm you may not so that ten percent may only be ninety percent of that ten percent may not be having lean so nice one of us and now you feel a lot of turning to never heard of oneís or felt earnings that it was an Oni and what you didn't respond to them when they had never forever know when he would just true are you doing in the road if our journey is never heard over the only report he is not a real estate of her okay that's what I just said who said I'm saying that if the attorney is saying that it's really not a real estate gotcha if he's saying that I don't know what a motivated general logo so OD is known in cumulative I didn't know what a no in English you got the wrong occurrence for useful I'm going you guys are funny it brought the wrong guy to the back doing no state you do motional paper you'll know about yeah it's it's it's a very common term that people should know in the title industry now so let me just wrap up a little bit if you guys have any questions or want to be learning about this stuff from suddenly i suggest to swing by mark seminar and i feel that i'll be there and i'll be talking about some of the tips that that i look at that i recommend for the investors or first time no buyers there's certainly a lot in every state that you don't know and it takes a little time to get adjusted and get comfortable in what you're looking at and analyzing the data but it's a first step right first step is is diving into every detail and covering yourself way to set hundred percent because you're not comfortable with ninety percent of ninety-five percent you want to follow all the steps that I would recommend for the first time homebuyer or first time no bar to make sure that you don't miss anything now there's just you know a very standard process that checklist that you go through before you buy now that's your due diligence cycle yeah so with that said we want thank you very much to show it up cut output walkin we'll see you at the end of jet gang-rape sweat swing it over to a mr.
park and love him too I my head pretty guys Alex ass yeah that's amore very much else was around that's fine mr. Murphy or now greetings everybody did I see Jim / no sitting on the right side over there trying to hide but you got me oh that is fun Watchmen are you doing man good happy new year guys told what bunch of new faces they're happy new year to all you guys hey thanks for having me on it oh you guys been going for a while here with Alex and yeah he's the king of title and I don't know who's asking about that ninety percent ten percent but um you know that's kind of the most important stuff you got in the back there um some of the most important stuff but again it's all about mitigating risks or if you're able to figure out what that ten percent is that's not covered on the ninety percent that Alex covers that's where you eliminate all those yo ships we call them on you again mitigating your risk through due diligence that's the key of becoming a professional note investment Tim knows Dave knows what's been doing this for a while that's and I think Alex that came on just what he was saying it I mean it's all about checklist you have a checklist with you know 30 things on and make sure you don't do the first ten and say okay let me skip the next thing because that's when you get hurt that's when you get really hurt so just make sure you're following all the steps um we're getting oh give me like a 30 second who you offer those who don't know yet yeah so mark gold I'm for the last four years up until this past December Oh is running the American home recovery fund which is a private equity fund we purchased over 1600 first mortgage note sit first mortgage notes with the exception of five seconds that we want to test the waters with uh yeah the gym they loves that it was a climbed fun we exited that a year ago and I've been I've been raising equity for other projects movies and other stuff that I've been having fun with so i made my i made my billions and no it's not having fun with my life good and how many miles would grow yeah yeah yeah we did during the five years that I was that I was heavily investing in the note business who are fun we did the we did a couple of road shows Jim who's with us on most of them we covered over 5,000 miles in these Mercedes Sprinter vans driving around the neighborhood most of you guys would never drive around but we found some gold out there don't we Jen absolutely yeah absolutely so uh yes I've been again a lot of experience and notes on right now I'm just buying to my own account on and working through working through my own deals everybody's pulled out credit cards already look at this money ready when you're on the home exactly exactly so what were I'm just going to take a couple of minutes here tell you guys about our distressed mortgage Expo which is coming out into your backyard on end of this month January 28 and 29 at the Newark hilton airport at the Newark Airport Hilton on Alex he's going to be there we have the who's who of the note business you're going to be you're gonna learn about raising capital using self-directed iras joint venture partners we're going to have buyers we're gonna have sellers there we're gonna have due diligence vendors Alex will be there of course talking about due diligence we're going to have people they're talking about crowdfunding and how to raise capital this way you know a lot of people most people in the industry don't buy notes with their own money although part of it is with your own money on and and you know it's gonna be two days of intense networking training and leading the players that you're going to really need to make this a successful ventricle self um on it's saturday starts at eight-thirty goes through goes through the end of the day and then we have a half hour lunches are provided happy hour on Saturday is provided take it to 99 bucks but we have a Dave p special tonight for you guys but first to actually I know Jim's already got his ticket we must your mom I got a special code that I'm going to send to Dave here where I to you guys can get buy one get one for you so two tickets for the price 100 i just bought right before I came tonight I can tell I'm not your mouse ear muffs ok so what guys who haven't bought yet yeah we got a buy one get one free so it's enabled yelling at you send that over to Dave here in a couple of minutes and then I hope to see you guys there again it's probably the two best days you can invest in your own backyard without having to jump on an airplane and go to Vegas or or Texas where a lot of the other events are so there's the third year we're doing it over there in the dork and it's again you know Dave's been there Jim's been there last three years and plus a bunch of the other ones it's really great event especially the networking and and really finding potential your next partners oh so it doesn't matter i already paid my money right but is it more of just like a free-for-all that everybody's in the same room like publishing or are there different things that you go to you know different people go to different room or how are you doing it no we're going to keep this one focused we have one stage everybody there's gonna be one speak at a time the one thing I hate is when they got six going on angles it's mostly panels is going to be too i think three speakers that are just speaking on their own for about an hour on note schools gonna have a presentation which is great there's a couple of others and everything else is gonna be panels with three or four experts and each kind of you know what we're doing but we're going to keep it more controlled is going to be I think 17 or 18 vendors they'll have time in between everything to go out and visit with see what they have and you know vendors being service providers the servicers the due diligence guys marketing anything dealing with the notes and you'll be able to spend time one-on-one with those guys usually sure that's the best way to put it together so what don't you think you're getting done on flattery and doesn't make sense for me to book a room um saturday will go till five-thirty I think and depending on and we start again at eight eight or 830 the next morning we have a room block with a few rooms left in 99 bucks so if you depending on how far you live from where it is you know again for 100 bucks oops very good you're good mine just took it out 400 bucks you can spend the night there yeah okay because a lot of times they go to the bar and under weather real anyone get it back Bob I'm going today you kinda hopin think I already told my wife a nice target had mark as new shoes madam and enjoy your zuzubin got into your filament stuff we'll see in a few weeks all right so you guys in a few weeks thanks a lot by bola faking hey Ben your stance with that when I was selling gold see you guys.
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