Collateral Review Experts | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: KC Wilson - Note Investor's Collateral Review Experts Dave's Goals and Plans: - Just funded on two mortgages today and went into contract on another one yesterday - Put out multiple bids on small tapes and mixed-use tapes from various sources - Foreclosed on a property in Oklahoma and discovered a duplicate HUD mortgage that wasn't caught in title report - Contacted Casey Wilson to help track down HUD release document for duplicate mortgage - Received HUD release document submission within days through Casey Wilson's contacts Nathan's Goals and Plans: - CFD bids fell through but picked up two mortgages that just funded - Has additional bids out on various properties - Met Casey Wilson at an INN conference a couple years ago - Previously worked with other document chasing companies with only moderate success - Now uses Casey Wilson as go-to expert for tracking down documents Key Recommendations: - Make offers with real intention to close, not as shotgun approach - do the work after offer is accepted - Be honest and transparent with sellers about timeframes and capabilities to build trust and get better deals - Involve all parties (attorney, title company) in collateral review process to identify obstacles before closing - Get professional collateral document review to understand complete picture of what you own before foreclosure - Educate yourself on collateral review and due diligence process - don't rely solely on assumptions Topics Discussed: - Note investing bidding strategy and negotiation - Importance of networking in securing deals - Collateral document review and title issues - Duplicate mortgage recordings and HUD involvement - Communication and relationship building with sellers - Foreclosure process obstacles and risk assessment Guest Insights: - 40 years in mortgage industry, started with origination and secondary market delivery - Worked with RTC during government takeover and interfaced with Wall Street - Philosophy: provide risk information to help investors decide, not tell them deals are bad - Based on foreclosure experience, can predict likely obstacles investors will face based on collateral - Success comes from technical expertise and managing business through quality staff more likely you're going to need your cloud before those services so if you're getting a paper without collateral i would even wait on that kind of stuff because the servicer wants to see what the agreement is so they can make sure that p i matches something like that so absolutely yes i can crazy on that i've never loaded along without collateral so it was definitely a question i've not been in before so um so i think you know some of the biggest things too is the collateral is understanding that it isn't a lot right there isn't many things inside of a cloud file but what are some of the key things that this new investors could do just skim before they send it off to you what are some of the items you you know there's a typical five right so could you just share with them what you're looking for initially to make sure those common files are there yes what we would like to see is that we would want to see the document that describes the borrowing of the money normally that is referred to as a note so the note describes the manner in which the borrowers to repay the debt now we also would like to see that note has moved from the originator of the loan to the party you're buying from as if you were endorsing the back of a check either on the back of the note or in attachments that move it from party to party to party then we want to make sure that the note that is referring to a piece of property that is being used as the collateral for the borrowing has that document to secure the collateral which is a mortgage or a deed of trust depending upon where you are now that deed of trust should refer to that note that you are borrowing you are you're buying and it should refer to the same note that you're buying and then again you all the documentation and they don't normally buy one or two loans from people and then collect them right and then nico's got a question here this is kind of a specific uh situation he's got he says he's got a second note in maryland and one of the assignments is lost he has a lost assignment affidavit but the county is not willing to record a lost assignment a loss assignment affidavit is that something that you can welcome does does he have a copy of what was to be recorded or does he not even have a copy of what was to be recorded well we'll see if he responds so that's the biggest problem a lot of times we'll get lost no affidavits and whatnot and those depending on the county and the state can or may not be able to be held right pa you can't even foreclose with something like that at times so well i think there's a difference between a document being unrecorded in a copy format or you don't even have a copy of what was to be recorded okay because if you have the ability to rephrase your lost note affidavit or your lost assignment affidavit to the extent that you can say i have a copy of what was to be recorded and you put all of that together you can work with your title company okay if you're foreclosing you're not just making up something that you think happened you have not got the original but you have what was to be recorded and if it's complete you need to make sure though that what you have meets what you think it does it has to say what on the assignment that it's going from a to b and and again i'd be more than happy to have him send it to me and look at it and tell him here's how i would rephrase my lost assignment affidavit hey everyone are you a new note investor who's looking to learn the basics without spending a ton of money or time online or even a weekend away from your family to attend a conference well we have a great beginners video series for you it's 20 different topics each video being less than 15 minutes this means less fluff and direct the content information to learn more check it out at www.jkpholdings slash beginner dash series again that's www dot jkp holdings slash beginner dash series to learn more [Music] hey everybody dave blitz here from jkp holdings on simon nathan turner happy friday bud how are you very good very good good so i think last time we got on uh you're buying some cfds and some notes you put some big offers in how are you others working out for you right now my cfd bids fell through uh i was able to pick up i actually just funded on two mortgages today and then i went in contract on another one yesterday and then i've got some additional bids out uh yeah we put a bunch of offers we've got a recently a bunch of small tapes and some other mixed use tapes we've gotten recently um from the different sources some common sources yeah and uh you never know right um we tried to away from making offers because all it is making offers um yeah the process is good and that's one that's interesting you know one of the key differences between real estate and then notes is if you're making an offer it's with the intention to close it's not just yes a shotgun approach you just throw out a bunch of dummy offers no no no this is for real and i think i think my partner when we first got involved uh he was like what do you mean you just make indicative offers what's that mean right and he couldn't understand the fact that you do all the work after it yeah so yeah those are listening out there don't worry about the fact that making offers right they're indicative of everything else just as long as you've got your calculator working with that data team with those numbers in mind it you should be okay so here's here's actually real quick uh the two that i just closed on that i just funded today uh it was two that i bid on it looked like one of them had fallen out for a while so we were trying to kind of figure out something else to replace it and then the seller came back to me and said hey uh that that one in texas is back up if you're still interested i said absolutely yes i want it yeah and i talked to him later and he said so the the issue was it was with somebody who was just taking their time due diligence was just dragging and they just said you know what just give it to nathan so because and i think i my guess and i don't know this for sure but my guess is that i'm actually paying a little bit less uh but i'm for real and i'm going to close and they know that and so i get the deal instead yeah okay it makes a difference it makes a difference it's it's amazing for people to understand that this networking space for us yeah is all about this this whole bidding process is all about networking it's not about just numbers is you may get a better you may get accepted just because you're of your communication with them calling them up explaining what's gonna happen set the time frame of when you think you'll close by hey listen i'm gonna need ten days don't tell them five when you may need ten right instead of time frame up and just be honest listen i screwed up listen i understand you sell off i just got some gun tied up so i totally agree with that thought process yeah yeah if you're this this is not a mess around kind of thing we're not going through title you know there's not a giant process it's it's your word you're obviously signed a contract but your word and you make it on your word and you're gonna get a lot more business so you know it's awesome because one of the pieces in this puzzle we're gonna be talking today which is awesome and i think the most underrated um education is inside the cloud or understanding it and going through the process of it a lot of the quote-unquote teachers don't go into it and if they stop there right and some reasons because there's a whole lot to understand another time it's just they don't know right and there's things that we just don't learn and we we need that expertise but there's another layer where we don't we can't know because of circumstances we don't have to experience it right so um why don't you uh introduce casey and explain uh get his background yeah i wanted to tell you this story because because this is just recent this is just this last week and this week so last week i'm selling a house uh we took back property in foreclosure in tennessee sorry in oklahoma in tulsa and uh we're selling the property we're we're supposed to close this last week and the closing attorney says well the problem is uh they're in the initial mortgage for some reason it was a hud mortgage and for some reason they wrote it twice and we're not sure why or what the reason wasn't maybe casey has some insight on why they do that i have no idea one of them and it wasn't a second mortgage they was just the same mortgage written twice and both of them were recorded so one of them had been passed down the chain appropriately and it was fine and that's the one we foreclosed on uh and i think the thinking was with the attorney is that once we foreclose it'll foreclose on both when in fact not exactly maybe but not exactly that other one is still out there so what ended up happening is is now i'm stuck i need this other mortgage released before i can do anything or foreclose on that one which i certainly don't want to do that'll take much too much time and energy and money and all the rest so we're looking for a release from hud from the government agency and i'm going oh my gosh so last week you'll remember i put it on our facebook group anybody know anybody from a hunt they can sign me yeah crickets from that side and then i go over to casey wilson and said do you guys have a contact that hud that could sign a release and and the vice president mark he writes back yep yes that's that's the magic um and so this one i don't want to say it didn't have anything to do with the collateral um but i i it was just an assumption that everybody made myself included that that would be okay and of course it's not uh but in fact just this morning i got an update email that the document's been submitted to hud uh return labels all printed and everything else so wow within the coming days we'll have that invaluable it's invaluable right it's just being able to process and move forward with that title being clean yeah yeah that document is worth several thousand dollars to me and so i don't maybe i shouldn't say that i trust me i know [Laughter] i know very well so casey and i first met at an inn conference a couple of years ago and i'm not even sure you'd remember casey but and i believe it was you and mark right and and it was it was an interesting meeting because same as as dave would we'd i'd heard about casey wilson if you need documents tracked down things like that they're the best ones check them out and so we met then and i thought it was kind of an interesting meeting because i felt like we were both kind of checking each other out and just making sure that we would fit well and i was saying so can you really do this because i've had other document chasing companies whatever you call that and uh you know moderate success and i'm thinking here goes another one but but no head and shoulders above the rest casey wilson is definitely my go-to whenever i need something tracked down so that's that's my brief introduction for casey but we'd love to hear where how did you get into this uh what do you guys do let us know basically i got into the mortgage industry 40 years ago and i started in a mortgage company and i did all the origination side and delivered to the secondary market and then i worked for an organization that was taken over by the federal government during the rtc days i worked with the federal government and interfaced with wall street and during my career with the rtc wall street became very familiar with me because i was delivering the most product to them for the mortgage-backed securities that were created and from there the the rtc wanted me to move to washington dc and i was not interested in that so i opened up my own business based upon wall street saying hey we need you to help us get all this product to market you really understand the mechanisms of getting product to market uh and i've never not been busy since and i'm fortunate because i come from a background where my family my father owned his own business and his position was always if you know technically your business you will be successful and if you manage your business based upon your assets of your staff etc you will be successful we have always been relatively successful based upon the size that we're in and we've acquired now a great staff and are able to take more and more business on that's fantastic yeah i tell my kids the same thing i don't care what you do just become an expert in that thing and the technical side yes and as you have said you really need to understand and we have very i have a very different philosophy because as you were saying i interviewed you you felt like to a certain extent yes i've been doing this long enough that i don't want to become an adversary with somebody i want to be a partner with somebody to make them successful we will give you the information that you need to determine whether or not the risk we see is acceptable to you we will not tell you this is a bad risk we'll just say we want you to understand what you have as far as your collateral and more importantly we've been through the foreclosure process so many times we know basically what you're going to find based upon your collateral in this instance now it's not saying that you won't be able to foreclose but you need to understand this could be an obstacle that you're going to need to overcome it's not a slam dunk like you found yes yeah yeah and and nico asked the question how did i not know about that it actually did not show up and i have to double check to be 100 sure i don't think it showed up in our title report which is odd and it should have but yeah i would be curious to see whether or not the attorney doing the foreclosure considered it a re-recording of the same mortgage and approached it from that angle the attorney can make that assumption but if you do not have concurrence with the title company you're going to have an issue and that's where i think we make sure in our relationship that everybody involved in the final conclusion is involved your attorney drew a conclusion but he needed in my opinion should have cross-checked with the title company saying okay when we finish foreclosure we need to get everything cleared off are we going to be in a position to have everything cleared off i'm not foreclosing in a second lean position i'm foreclosing under the assumption i'm at first and everything else will come off right right yeah and this this one has been a bit of a thorn to my side because it's it's with covid and everything else it's just been delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed and so we finally get to the closing table and then this comes up and i'm going oh you're kidding me right so casey let's back up for a second right we have some experienced investors here we have some beginners right right share the overview what your company can provide to both the beginner as well as that advanced investor what are some of the services you guys offer we will give you a review of the collateral documents that you deliver to us using the documents that you've delivered to us either in original or in images or copies we will then evaluate those documents and tell you whether or not we feel you have what we would consider to be a complete set of documents enabling you to gain ownership of two things which are very important to you you want to gain ownership of the note which determines your ability to collect but equally as important you want to gain ownership of the mortgage which secures your borrowing because you're going to foreclose should you have a problem against your mortgage so we would tell you whether or not you have a complete chain moving that into your name without any problem if you have problems we can advise you where the problem is and then we can work together to go back to your seller or in conjunction with everybody determine how we want to resolve the issues that come up and what's the most common issues that do come up the investors we come up with the ownership transfers are not complete that's the biggest problem most people face is that you're buying something assuming that the seller has the ability to transfer the asset to you and the seller may feel he has the ability to transfer the asset to you but he doesn't have compl a complete chain of ownership to him or a missing assignment or a launch or both correct yeah and we've got the situation right and they're not fatal but you need to in my opinion you want to know up front so that you don't get to a situation where all of a sudden you need to do something and you're scrambling i want all of our clients on the offense rather than on the defense we've run into situations where the you know the assignment order launch was then made at the blank and then the seller you know a brought the blank and then bc and d started creating their own assignments and they should have left it blank and they don't um and the other ones have been recorded in the county records as you know recorded aside and recorded and whatnot and we've run that problem where now we're in this region where we have to somehow figure out a way to get the previous original lender to write the assignment to that the buyer b if we're e and complete that chain right because you can foreclose on a blank assignment we can do that in certain states however if it's blank from a to b but then b creates something and record it then you have your problem absolutely yeah and and that's i think where again we want everyone to see what they have and then you can make your own decision as to how you want to move forward with that we also find that we bring value added when you're selling your product if you understand your hiccups you can be prepared ahead of time not to take a bigger head a haircut than you want to yeah you want to be always in my opinion on the offense not defending your products right so you're defending your ownership as the owner of the collateral yeah and and how many times have you seen that dave where are you it's missing an assignment or in the launch or something i mean it's it's way more common than it should be but it happens all the time and sometimes that company's out of business yes you know where huds is hard to get a hold of but you may find a company a new investor who bought it sold it and now was out of the business that company has been folded what do you do then how do you get that assignment recorded when the business no longer exists ameresco is one of those big ones that if you've got stuff stuck in amaresco it's it's very difficult predicament to be in yeah yeah typically llcs hold over someone that can sign off old documents that are previously done but there are companies out there that you you're going to be in really tough shape to be able to foreclose on it which is we all want to be in a spot where you can legally foreclose on these documents and secure the house back right um and you review mods and stuff and he's just reviewing the collateral so not that he would know the answer but generally speaking you need to make sure that if you're going to buy a note with no collateral that the service and company doesn't know what to do with it they don't know what the pay history is like right unless the previous seller has collateral of their servicer showing pay history then that will transfer over but the the servicer doesn't need to see the mortgage and note and things like that um well let me let me interrupt you there for just one quick question because that brings up what we see many times as well the note was done ten years ago and the note was at eight percent and when you're looking at this payment stream and you're buying of a six percent note you're wondering wait a minute how did we go from eight to six right our indication would be to you it was modified however we're going to stress to you we need to see the confirmation of the modification in some form because you're going to wind up in trouble if you're collecting six and you don't have anything to support the six right and all you've got is the original note that's why many services are apprehensive about loading something blindly and then you run into this problem not immediately but then when you try to do something you're caught off guard because you we tell all of our clients do not start any collection activity of any kind unless you totally understand what you've got to support your action because you will find there are many attorneys out there right now that represent borrowers that all they're doing is stalling stalling stalling stalling stalling with no intent of ever paying you but stringing staying in your property forever yeah well said so yes you're right if you're you're not doing the legal side of it we're not worried about statute limitations this is just to make sure that you have ownership of the collateral that everything that was originally made is now true for you successfully and in order correct yeah and and you know and i think this is where a company like casey wilson who's been around long enough to have those connections is so vital because you can you can like i say i've had varying success with other people trying to track down collateral for me uh but if they don't have the connection they don't have the connection and it's it's the same as if i was going back to hud to say hey i'm i'm you know ernest inc who's who's there in a stink they want this document signed versus casey wilson that they've dealt with hundreds of times before and they say oh yeah okay another one of those yeah fine and they'll go ahead and do it and the large companies are just like that you know hud and there's the massive size companies where you can't get a hold of the person who needs a side document it just or they don't exist anymore so no one having that that network that connection like casey has is invaluable because he's doing it so long he's had those connections for years yeah right correct so what are the biggest struggles you see investors have that you know that or myths out there that maybe is not true oh i i would say that the biggest handicap or myth most investors find is that they think it's going to be very easy to do this and they don't truly understand the cash requirements that are necessary when you own loans and when you go through the process of collection or you go through the processes of various different things that have to be done in order to get to the end goal that's that's one of the things i see the majority and i think you have to as you have mentioned you need to be able to understand who you are doing business with and more importantly you need to understand what that person you're engaging is supposed to do for you not tell you what to do and and i believe very strongly that you cannot just turn a collection situation over to someone and expect them to do it you as the owner of the collateral and owner of the debt need to instruct the attorney or instruct the collection agent as to where you see yourself and what you're expecting them to do so that as you monitor the progress to the end you're driving the transaction in a positive way versus the defense defensive way yeah absolutely absolutely so daniel singer give you a shout out uh you're the best team possible for any job he needs so thank you dana for reaching out the man um we had mark uh on last week and he asked the question do you ever deal with cfds or strictly institutional paper we can deal with whatever you want us to deal with provided that we're both on the same page as to what you're referencing as what you're speaking of because i've had people say they bought unsecured collateral or they're buying debt i'm like no no no no wait a minute you're buying an obligation to pay but what does that obligation entail i mean if if you just have a stream off of a servicing system and no documentation you're going to have a very difficult time going after somebody to collect the debt yeah yeah i had a situation like that where i actually bought some loans from uh shoot what's the name now they'll come to me after we're done the call i'm sure but it's a it's a mortgage company that was very big in the run-up to the meltdown yeah and then afterwards i i was presented these loans but there was zero collateral zero collateral zero oh my god uh servicing history like nothing all the way well we still own these mortgages well sort of was it first or seconds first oh okay first and i think the other thing that's interesting that i have found in the industry is the word charge-off if you're buying charge-offs what a charge-off to one company is not necessarily a charge-off meaning the debt was forgiven it just meant to that company it was not worth pursuing any further so you can have value in charge-offs if you understand what that is and how to pursue a course of action against them that's the other thing that we find we have to be very careful that we use the same terminology in describing something right yeah that a case kind of a case of one man's trash is an immense treasure uh to the bank maybe that's a charge off because it's really not worth anything but to me that's exactly what i'm looking for that's that's perfect uh so not exactly a charger so let's define what that means casey why don't you define what your understanding of charge off means because we have some people that are not sure what that means in general they never seen that term before sometimes okay what if if i'm a lender and i have a hundred loans and those hundred loans are paying every month and then all of a sudden i wind up with 20 of them that are not paying and i go in and i investigate and i think uh oh i'm looking at my collateral it's my house which is the security and it's not really where i thought it was this this borrower has not been keeping the property up i look at the fact that the borrower has gone too long without paying then i look at the cost to do the collection to get the property back and i determine in my business i don't want to spend that much money to collect the debt so i consider it a charge off and i move it to the status of charged up where we're not going to do any more activity the the smaller investment investors may say that's great i have a house i have a borrower i have you know these types of things i can take that and i can look at it and i can possibly restructure it i can possibly do different things to it so that i will gain a cash flow which is what i'm looking for or i may be able to work with a borrower to get them out so that i wind up with the property which is what i'd rather do i'd rather have the property eliminate the borrower and go on so it depends upon what strategies you have as to how you would pursue that non-paying asset many times charge off is an asset that isn't paying and whoever owns it at that time doesn't want to invest anymore right so essentially it's a charge off so therefore they're going to sell it as a non-performing loan because to them it's not worth anything whereas that is my business as i buy these non-performing loans and that's exactly what i'm looking for well one step further if you're regulated and you have these it's affecting your cash flow so you have to put more reserves against it so that's why non-performers are a real problem for regulated enterprises because they've got to offset the cash so for those who are looking to figure what it is means it's an accounting thing that when banks have certain amount of bad debt they have to sell off or move it to a different platform situation so they're charging off that debt and it's no longer on their books counting against the cash reserve they need to have correct awesome so we do have some questions here um i'm just going to feed them to nathan he'll they'll hit them up yeah uh somebody was saying they had some issues with their collateral from countrywide sri ghana saying that uh-huh are you are you oh yeah that's a dumb question right countrywide is bank of america bank of america is a big maze to go through right right but then you can help them out you've got the contacts there and the absolute people again we will look at what they have and we will assist them to determine whether or not we can help them i'm not going to string anybody along we're going to give you a very clear cut we can either help you or this is an issue and this is how you need to pursue it depending upon what you have and do you typically charge them for that evaluation i'm sure you do yes we look at the collateral and then we'll give you our recommendations and then you can go from there absolutely if you're unable to assist with getting that documentation which i don't believe is possible but if they run into a scenario where that company is no longer available um do you is there any way you can help them figure out what they could possibly do absolutely because see i firmly believe that you need to be up front depending upon what you are attempting to do with collateral that isn't in your name for an example i have a loan a hundred thousand dollars against a piece of property it's been through the two owners and i bought it from the third owner in this example we're using countrywide countrywide never moved the loan forward so at the county recorder it still sits in countrywide if i'm going to foreclose against that piece of property and i'm missing that link from countrywide to the next party i need to make sure as the owner of that property that when i work with my law firm that's going to do my foreclosure we deal with that right up front in the court we deal with that right up front with the attorney and we determine how we're going to approach that because we cannot be left with a piece of property that is just in limbo because of a situation of a document we can demonstrate that the loan has been moved forward we have the note we have various different things that will demonstrate the property or the actual debt has been moved but we then go to the title company and say what are we going to do in conjunction with all of us to move it forward again becoming proactive versus allowing that to stall us and not go anywhere okay so we have a new investor asked this question and this i think is a very common question i've gotten and for a new investor should they have me saying this collateral file to you before they buy it during the loan process due diligence or only after they buy the notes that would depend upon how the client feels they want and how much of the evaluation they want to know i don't buy blind so i would say it would be worth their while and their dollars spent for us to look at it and give them back an evaluation in many cases the information we give them may allow them to adjust their price that will more than compensate for the small fee we charge to evaluate nathan have you ever bought a loan before reviewing the collateral i don't think i have so for those newbies let me interrupt you there i will sell you 100 loans today and you will buy them if i have no collateral because you'll price it accordingly yeah right that's the situation you may buy loans without collateral but you're going to price it accordingly and you and i would have had a conversation saying okay what do you think you're buying and how much of this collateral do you think we can gather by virtue of the resources so we have a game plan to do it that's the value added we would give to you and you may not get the hundred assets that you're buying all documented but if you got 70 of them documented and foreclosed upon and gone in your act your your course of operation you will have made a a very very smart investment right i'm going to go back in understanding your risk ahead of time right i'm going to go back to the whole buying process in a second i'm just asking one question i know it's going to come up was a typical time frame for a lost assignment or a situation where you need to collect how long does it take to get that collateral it depends upon where we're having to go i i can't say that it's an immediate situation it's like anything else if we have contacts that will respond immediately it's great sometimes we get caught in the maze it says it's a very strong matter of follow-up it's diligence on the follow-up we don't send out and then wait we send out and follow how about then for the for the document review what's that what's the turn around time for document review collateral review well we can usually get them done in 48 hours provided that you're not dumping a huge amount but if somebody says you know we have one we can get it done very quickly for you on a one-off so that we establish more importantly a relationship for you to understand what we're doing right we can't have you constantly saying oh i got one today and or i got 10 today and stop everything and do it right if you're a client that's looking for some help immediately we would stop and say okay we can get this done for you and those are listening most of the time you're sending them a zip drive you're not seeing them hard collateral when you get to the higher levels you're gonna send it through a letter and whatnot um but most investors here are gonna be getting a zip drive when they make the offer and when they get accepted offer they'll get the collateral sent to them and zip drive flashing and that zip drive fashioning can send a casey wilson and let him evaluate look through the collateral file um you're more likely not to get the hard collateral file you just until you get the higher levels yeah correct and what we do is that we will in our review process we will indicate to you what we have and in what form we have it we have an image of a recorded mortgage we have an image of this we have an image of that and then what we want to do is confirm when the original collateral were to be delivered we sync up and make sure that we get the original of what we have in images or we may get originals in the file that were not imaged that will fix some of our fixes that's why we don't always start immediately until we get that physical collateral file on the curative work okay so there's a question here um can notes be boarded with a service company with incomplete collateral that's a good question could you read the question again it says can notes be be boarded with a service company with incomplete collateral i think referring to if you're if you're gonna buy a note and you're going to load it with you floated into a servicer well they accepted a note without collateral and i not that is casey wilson's this is what casey wilson is not the servicer would want to see that that note or that more deed of trust or mortgage has moved from the originator to the party from whom you're buying then as we've already discussed in prior discussions today the title policy is essential to you because the title policy will ensure that when the loan was made the title company is ensuring you are either in a first if it's a first lien or you're in a second position so that in the case that nathan had should nathan have had a title policy that referred to the mortgage that he had and he had as listed as a first the obligation of removing that prior to him mortgage would be upon the title company that issued the title policy for the mortgage that he foreclosed upon if the mortgage is after the one that nathan bought then nathan has an issue not with the title company but he's got a problem with removing it so that's why we looked at the title company and the title policy because that will help you should something have not happened correctly in the closing of the the mortgage and note that you're buying do you typically request the investor to send you their o e report so that you can compare what is recorded again i think if you're not doing that you'll get surprises yes because we may have a collateral file that has a chain in it going from a to b b to c and c to d but you may find that oh b sold it twice so there's two from b to two different people and they never rescinded one so now we have a conflict or again i think you want to know whether or not the taxes are current whether or not you've got some again glaring issues that are going to come up not maybe the day you buy the loan but down the line should something happen everything is always fine on day number one everything is always fine for the first 30 days it's after the net when you expect your first payment and it doesn't come that you've got some problems or all of a sudden borrowers begin to realize the loans have been sold and they're going to test you as an individual yeah yeah and most time we send our for our client review it's in the file as well as our oe it helps you kind of figure out what was going on the county records but also helps us to know what's going on absolutely because they may many times they do not match a hundred percent yeah yeah awesome so i've had some horror stories i'm sure nathan's had some horror stories you know with this stuff for me i can't see anyone not going through this process i don't i i'm amazed when people don't have their cloud reviewed i understand they have a simple cloud file they can do it themselves but for any person that's new pay the money it's not expensive to have that collateral view and you get an exception report telling you what files need to be fixed and if you're clean it's great and like you said before you can then take this and pass it on to a buyer and resell that note with this exception report saying it's clean well and one other thing i think you need to also understand and this is something that many times is overlooked as you begin in this business and as you get into this when your name becomes associated to the property whether it's correctly or incorrectly associated to the property you pick up obligations as the lender and you want to know what you're going to be picking up by virtue of acquiring the property that even the seller may not have been aware they're doing we've had lots of problems in areas of this country where people have bought distressed properties that unfortunately were knocked down very quickly after they bought them because they were so far gone the cities came in and said no they're they're they're knocking them down so you wind up with nothing other than a plot of land so again you really need to be aware and i'm not trying to scare anybody but again it's a matter of risk you're taking money that you've worked very hard to acquire to then do something further with it you're not gambling with it you're you're using your cash as an investment to further your prosperity not take a hit because you you got submarined by something you didn't realize yeah and it unfortunately some mistakes can be very very costly potentially a lot yes so a couple of comments here in the in their chat chandra was asking if it was bear stearns i remember it is actually enhanced mortgage that's who uh that's who i was looking at this paper from and they just had nothing no collateral documents no pay history no nothing so well cmac will do that as well if you're buying product that came from gmec you can have an issue okay and then matt kelly uh this is excellent he's uh asking to first to explain the importance of possessing and obtaining the origination file loan application the complete pay history as they're needed in judicial foreclosures and collections also for compliance purposes when selling to lenders who may securitize the debt so just that importance of just copies are great and we get the copies when we look at a file before we purchase but the actual paper still matters we're still that's a big big big deal and you've got to have that actual collateral file uh bar none right yeah i think also i think yeah having the original file you're not going to see the original file when you go to buy that loan your when you do due diligence it's when you get the physical file you need to make sure it's wet ink like not a copy right literally the copy was signed so i think what matt was also training is what is your thoughts on having making sure you have the loan application having the complete pay history for a couple reasons bk court may require things like that but also judicial when you're going for closure speak a little bit about having making sure you have those papers for people like us so typically we don't need the loan application right it's small investors but if you're going to sell to a fund who does securitization that's required collateral there again i think that speaks to the volume that you own in order to transfer product you're in you're in buyers if you're looking to to sell loans if you're buying to turn around and flip you need to understand very quickly what your end users are going to require and more importantly you need to understand whether or not that will be physically available before you even start to look at product because a lot of the product that you're looking at that's seasoned is more than likely not going to have all the documentation that they need so you need to therefore be even more diligent in looking at what you're getting if you're buying that with that as a goal to sell it's a very complicated situation to sell to put them into the mortgage backs or that without nico if that if you didn't do that where you didn't show the county the original copy the copy of the original as well as the lost note after david try that you know you could definitely try that and if not then reach out to casey i'm sure he'll walk you through the process be sure his loss no his last assignment rep is specifically referring to the fact that they have a copy of what was to be recorded and they are unable to obtain the original to be recorded okay you have to leave them to understand why you're having them you're not just taking a guess having them take a guess that this is here yeah he will send to you he said awesome wow awesome information it's amazing that this world of just collateral file which most investors kind of skip over they focus more on the actual investment itself don't realize that the leverage that this collateral file has over you and you may be buying nothing right if you don't know what you're doing well you'll buy less than what you thought that's true but at the same time there are people you know like you guys out there that can help them through that process you know understand the fact that you may have bought less than what you bought but here's how we can get you to a full level where you can buy a loan that may have less and discounted a lot get casey a step in now it's fully worth everything you can sell to one of us for more money it can happen right right and we and again we we do it both sides just so that people understand we have clients that have us clean it up and make sure that it's all ready to go or we have clients that say okay we're going to sell this based upon what we know we can represent wholly and we'll take a cut or a haircut in pricing because we don't want to go through the process of doing it but we sell it to somebody who knows up front what they're getting and we negotiate a much better price yeah and when i'm purchasing it it makes me so much more comfortable when i ask for the collateral and i'm cc'd on an email that is going to casey wilson and says hey can you guys send nathan the collateral oh that's excellent i know we're in good hands then and so yeah it makes me feel a lot more comfortable on that and again it gets back to what you guys said in the very beginning that you heard i wasn't taking business at different times we i i don't want to be in a position where i'm not a positive person in someone's relationship with the industry i don't i don't do business that way and if i feel that we're gonna have a compatible relationship that's great if i don't unfortunately uh there's not a lot of money to be made if you wind up bouncing around all over the place sure and it's not fair to the buyer and it's not fair to the seller yeah that's awesome that's great guys if any additional questions feel free to put it in the post and uh i'll answer it but we're gonna start wrapping up soon so please make sure you ask that question before we tie up so so again i'm going to ask i've asked many of our guests yes and with your experience and you just the time you've been in the industry what's do you have a crystal ball uh projection here are we in in looking at more non-performing coming up or is that uh maybe too much hype uh from a year ago what do you think i think debt is a serious problem in this country right now whether it's in this arena or not i think people as a whole do not feel any obligation to pay back the debts that they incur so my advice to people is if you're going to be in this business you better make real sure that you understand the collateral you get eventually when the payments are not received and i've had clients and i tell this story one of my first clients was a guy that came to me with 25 loans and said i got these 25 loans casey and they say you'll help me and we'll we got to get through them and this guy took his 25 loans and through pain and suffering we got them all foreclosed upon however he didn't want the money back he didn't want that and he now has 25 pieces of real estate that returned him a very nice standard of living and so he took what he didn't think he was going to get and made something out of it because he's got now the tangible but you have to be prepared to understand how and what you get for your debt that you're buying because that's a problem the courts are not as stringent as they used to be but you have to be prepared to be pro-active as the owner of the debt to make the court go up and down when there's when they're looking at your file and your case going yes yes yes yes not go huh or what or wait a minute i use the story when the judge is looking at your stuff you want his head up and down you don't want him to say well wait a minute what about this or what about that you want every question answered so everything should be discussed before it goes to the court before you be even filed because the last thing you want to do is getting a terrible relationship right you don't want to be on the defense if you're on the defense you've got a huge problem excellent but i think i think there's i think again if you're realistic in what you're doing you'll do very well yeah and you might feel like that is good debt is good for more son right you know i'm the same with you my wife and i have been on a pledge to get out of debt for you know because she had a lot of student loan debt that we got into and mortgages like that but debt in general in this society is is out of control for years car debt college debt the whole works and i agree with you is understanding how to leverage yourself to be in a spot to take advantage of that situation because you're right it ain't going away right right yeah college loans another thing that people are talking about where i know for years you couldn't buy them and then they're starting to be a sellable now which is interesting commercials everything else but debt in general is a huge everyone started leveraging everything so well and again it's it's it's a simple fact somebody owes you money and what do you get for collateral if you get their signature you don't have something you can repossess if you get something you want to make sure what you get i have clients that do car loans and there they do very high interest car loans and every one of the loans they make the tracker goes on the car because they want to know where that car is every single month there are certain things they make perfectly clear i'm offsetting my risk of you being a a high credit risk by putting this on your car so i don't lose it or i'm giving you a loan against your house but i need to have you understand i'm going to be monitoring that you're taking care of it and the taxes are paid and this and that if you're not i'm going to start my plan to make sure i don't lose my investment excellent i love it i love it because it's a it's a good different perspective of what's going on um because it's bigger picture it's awesome correct awesome well everyone i appreciate you guys tuning in nathan casey i appreciate you coming on here and spend an hour on a friday afternoon hopefully it's nice for your edward you know some storms over here in jersey uh but uh i appreciate your knowledge your experience just and you're just wealth of you know being willing to share with everyone i appreciate it and i'd like to make sure your audience understands your first time coming to us don't feel that you're going to get charged we're going to talk to you and give you the our advice and then you know the first time introducing yourselves to us there's no we're not like attorneys and started up we we will we we want to make you happy and see what you've got yeah we like puzzles if you don't like puzzles you're in the wrong business yeah and uh my testimonials you guys have been absolutely fantastic i i've never had any any issue at all uh it's always been a very good uh right and and daniel was on the call so daniel knows that the partnership works daniel's success rate is very good when daniel gets something that's given to him to go through yeah it works it's a it's a well-oiled machine yeah absolutely yeah and those who don't know he's an attorney that does a lot of collateral help with it with investors and whatnot and owns his own stuff as well i did put in the form uh inside the facebook live uh comment box if you want to reach out to him fill the form out and uh we'll share you his bio as well as his contact information so i appreciate it and again have a great weekend everybody yeah take care thank you for the invite the key differences between real estate and then notes is if you're making an offer it's with the intention to close it's not just yes a shotgun approach you just throw out a bunch of dummy offers no no no this is for real and i think i think my partner when we first got involved uh he was like what do you mean you just make indicative offers what's that mean right and he couldn't understand the fact that you do all the work after it yeah so yeah those are listening out there don't worry about the fact that making offers right they're indicative of everything else just as long as you've got your calculator working with that data team with those numbers in mind it you should be okay so here's here's actually real quick uh the two that i just closed on that i just funded today uh it was two that i bid on it looked like one of them had fallen out for a while so we were trying to kind of figure out something else to replace it and then the seller came back to me and said hey uh that that one in texas is back up if you're still interested i said absolutely yes i want it yeah and i talked to him later and he said so the the issue was it was with somebody who was just taking their time due diligence was just dragging and they just said you know what just give it to nathan so because and i think i my guess and i don't know this for sure but my guess is that i'm actually paying a little bit less uh but i'm for real and i'm going to close and they know that and so i get the deal instead yeah okay it makes a difference it makes a difference it's it's amazing for people to understand that this networking space for us yeah is all about this this whole bidding process is all about networking it's not about just numbers is you may get a better you may get accepted just because you're of your communication with them calling them up explaining what's gonna happen set the time frame of when you think you'll close by hey listen i'm gonna need ten days don't tell them five when you may need ten right instead of time frame up and just be honest listen i screwed up listen i understand you sell off i just got some gun tied up so i totally agree with that thought process yeah yeah if you're this this is not a mess around kind of thing we're not going through title you know there's not a giant process it's it's your word you're obviously signed a contract but your word and you make it on your word and you're gonna get a lot more business so you know it's awesome because one of the pieces in this puzzle we're gonna be talking today which is awesome and i think the most underrated um education is inside the cloud or understanding it and going through the process of it a lot of the quote-unquote teachers don't go into it and if they stop there right and some reasons because there's a whole lot to understand another time it's just they don't know right and there's things that we just don't learn and we we need that expertise but there's another layer where we don't we can't know because of circumstances we don't have to experience it right so um why don't you uh introduce casey and explain uh get his background yeah i wanted to tell you this story because because this is just recent this is just this last week and this week so last week i'm selling a house uh we took back property in foreclosure in tennessee sorry in oklahoma in tulsa and uh we're selling the property we're we're supposed to close this last week and the closing attorney says well the problem is uh they're in the initial mortgage for some reason it was a hud mortgage and for some reason they wrote it twice and we're not sure why or what the reason wasn't maybe casey has some insight on why they do that i have no idea one of them and it wasn't a second mortgage they was just the same mortgage written twice and both of them were recorded so one of them had been passed down the chain appropriately and it was fine and that's the one we foreclosed on uh and i think the thinking was with the attorney is that once we foreclose it'll foreclose on both when in fact not exactly maybe but not exactly that other one is still out there so what ended up happening is is now i'm stuck i need this other mortgage released before i can do anything or foreclose on that one which i certainly don't want to do that'll take much too much time and energy and money and all the rest so we're looking for a release from hud from the government agency and i'm going oh my gosh so last week you'll remember i put it on our facebook group anybody know anybody from a hunt they can sign me yeah crickets from that side and then i go over to casey wilson and said do you guys have a contact that hud that could sign a release and and the vice president mark he writes back yep yes that's that's the magic um and so this one i don't want to say it didn't have anything to do with the collateral um but i i it was just an assumption that everybody made myself included that that would be okay and of course it's not uh but in fact just this morning i got an update email that the document's been submitted to hud uh return labels all printed and everything else so wow within the coming days we'll have that invaluable it's invaluable right it's just being able to process and move forward with that title being clean yeah yeah that document is worth several thousand dollars to me and so i don't maybe i shouldn't say that i trust me i know [Laughter] i know very well so casey and i first met at an inn conference a couple of years ago and i'm not even sure you'd remember casey but and i believe it was you and mark right and and it was it was an interesting meeting because same as as dave would we'd i'd heard about casey wilson if you need documents tracked down things like that they're the best ones check them out and so we met then and i thought it was kind of an interesting meeting because i felt like we were both kind of checking each other out and just making sure that we would fit well and i was saying so can you really do this because i've had other document chasing companies whatever you call that and uh you know moderate success and i'm thinking here goes another one but but no head and shoulders above the rest casey wilson is definitely my go-to whenever i need something tracked down so that's that's my brief introduction for casey but we'd love to hear where how did you get into this uh what do you guys do let us know basically i got into the mortgage industry 40 years ago and i started in a mortgage company and i did all the origination side and delivered to the secondary market and then i worked for an organization that was taken over by the federal government during the rtc days i worked with the federal government and interfaced with wall street and during my career with the rtc wall street became very familiar with me because i was delivering the most product to them for the mortgage-backed securities that were created and from there the the rtc wanted me to move to washington dc and i was not interested in that so i opened up my own business based upon wall street saying hey we need you to help us get all this product to market you really understand the mechanisms of getting product to market uh and i've never not been busy since and i'm fortunate because i come from a background where my family my father owned his own business and his position was always if you know technically your business you will be successful and if you manage your business based upon your assets of your staff etc you will be successful we have always been relatively successful based upon the size that we're in and we've acquired now a great staff and are able to take more and more business on that's fantastic yeah i tell my kids the same thing i don't care what you do just become an expert in that thing and the technical side yes and as you have said you really need to understand and we have very i have a very different philosophy because as you were saying i interviewed you you felt like to a certain extent yes i've been doing this long enough that i don't want to become an adversary with somebody i want to be a partner with somebody to make them successful we will give you the information that you need to determine whether or not the risk we see is acceptable to you we will not tell you this is a bad risk we'll just say we want you to understand what you have as far as your collateral and more importantly we've been through the foreclosure process so many times we know basically what you're going to find based upon your collateral in this instance now it's not saying that you won't be able to foreclose but you need to understand this could be an obstacle that you're going to need to overcome it's not a slam dunk like you found yes yeah yeah and and nico asked the question how did i not know about that it actually did not show up and i have to double check to be 100 sure i don't think it showed up in our title report which is odd and it should have but yeah i would be curious to see whether or not the attorney doing the foreclosure considered it a re-recording of the same mortgage and approached it from that angle the attorney can make that assumption but if you do not have concurrence with the title company you're going to have an issue and that's where i think we make sure in our relationship that everybody involved in the final conclusion is involved your attorney drew a conclusion but he needed in my opinion should have cross-checked with the title company saying okay when we finish foreclosure we need to get everything cleared off are we going to be in a position to have everything cleared off i'm not foreclosing in a second lean position i'm foreclosing under the assumption i'm at first and everything else will come off right right yeah and this this one has been a bit of a thorn to my side because it's it's with covid and everything else it's just been delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed and so we finally get to the closing table and then this comes up and i'm going oh you're kidding me right so casey let's back up for a second right we have some experienced investors here we have some beginners right right share the overview what your company can provide to both the beginner as well as that advanced investor what are some of the services you guys offer we will give you a review of the collateral documents that you deliver to us using the documents that you've delivered to us either in original or in images or copies we will then evaluate those documents and tell you whether or not we feel you have what we would consider to be a complete set of documents enabling you to gain ownership of two things which are very important to you you want to gain ownership of the note which determines your ability to collect but equally as important you want to gain ownership of the mortgage which secures your borrowing because you're going to foreclose should you have a problem against your mortgage so we would tell you whether or not you have a complete chain moving that into your name without any problem if you have problems we can advise you where the problem is and then we can work together to go back to your seller or in conjunction with everybody determine how we want to resolve the issues that come up and what's the most common issues that do come up the investors we come up with the ownership transfers are not complete that's the biggest problem most people face is that you're buying something assuming that the seller has the ability to transfer the asset to you and the seller may feel he has the ability to transfer the asset to you but he doesn't have compl a complete chain of ownership to him or a missing assignment or a launch or both correct yeah and we've got the situation right and they're not fatal but you need to in my opinion you want to know up front so that you don't get to a situation where all of a sudden you need to do something and you're scrambling i want all of our clients on the offense rather than on the defense we've run into situations where the you know the assignment order launch was then made at the blank and then the seller you know a brought the blank and then bc and d started creating their own assignments and they should have left it blank and they don't um and the other ones have been recorded in the county records as you know recorded aside and recorded and whatnot and we've run that problem where now we're in this region where we have to somehow figure out a way to get the previous original lender to write the assignment to that the buyer b if we're e and complete that chain right because you can foreclose on a blank assignment we can do that in certain states however if it's blank from a to b but then b creates something and record it then you have your problem absolutely yeah and and that's i think where again we want everyone to see what they have and then you can make your own decision as to how you want to move forward with that we also find that we bring value added when you're selling your product if you understand your hiccups you can be prepared ahead of time not to take a bigger head a haircut than you want to yeah you want to be always in my opinion on the offense not defending your products right so you're defending your ownership as the owner of the collateral yeah and and how many times have you seen that dave where are you it's missing an assignment or in the launch or something i mean it's it's way more common than it should be but it happens all the time and sometimes that company's out of business yes you know where huds is hard to get a hold of but you may find a company a new investor who bought it sold it and now was out of the business that company has been folded what do you do then how do you get that assignment recorded when the business no longer exists ameresco is one of those big ones that if you've got stuff stuck in amaresco it's it's very difficult predicament to be in yeah yeah typically llcs hold over someone that can sign off old documents that are previously done but there are companies out there that you you're going to be in really tough shape to be able to foreclose on it which is we all want to be in a spot where you can legally foreclose on these documents and secure the house back right um and you review mods and stuff and you're not doing the legal side of it we're not worried about statute limitations this is just to make sure that you have ownership of the collateral that everything that was originally made is now true for you successfully and in order correct yeah and and you know and i think this is where a company like casey wilson who's been around long enough to have those connections is so vital because you can you can like i say i've had varying success with other people trying to track down collateral for me uh but if they don't have the connection they don't have the connection and it's it's the same as if i was going back to hud to say hey i'm i'm you know ernest inc who's who's there in a stink they want this document signed versus casey wilson that they've dealt with hundreds of times before and they say oh yeah okay another one of those yeah fine and they'll go ahead and do it and the large companies are just like that you know hud and there's the massive size companies where you can't get a hold of the person who needs a side document it just or they don't exist anymore so no one having that that network that connection like casey has is invaluable because he's doing it so long he's had those connections for years yeah right correct so what are the biggest struggles you see investors have that you know that or myths out there that maybe is not true oh i i would say that the biggest handicap or myth most investors find is that they think it's going to be very easy to do this and they don't truly understand the cash requirements that are necessary when you own loans and when you go through the process of collection or you go through the processes of various different things that have to be done in order to get to the end goal that's that's one of the things i see the majority and i think you have to as you have mentioned you need to be able to understand who you are doing business with and more importantly you need to understand what that person you're engaging is supposed to do for you not tell you what to do and and i believe very strongly that you cannot just turn a collection situation over to someone and expect them to do it you as the owner of the collateral and owner of the debt need to instruct the attorney or instruct the collection agent as to where you see yourself and what you're expecting them to do so that as you monitor the progress to the end you're driving the transaction in a positive way versus the defense defensive way yeah absolutely absolutely so daniel singer give you a shout out uh you're the best team possible for any job he needs so thank you dana for reaching out the man um we had mark uh on last week and he asked the question do you ever deal with cfds or strictly institutional paper we can deal with whatever you want us to deal with provided that we're both on the same page as to what you're referencing as what you're speaking of because i've had people say they bought unsecured collateral or they're buying debt i'm like no no no no wait a minute you're buying an obligation to pay but what does that obligation entail i mean if if you just have a stream off of a servicing system and no documentation you're going to have a very difficult time going after somebody to collect the debt yeah yeah i had a situation like that where i actually bought some loans from uh shoot what's the name now they'll come to me after we're done the call i'm sure but it's a it's a mortgage company that was very big in the run-up to the meltdown yeah and then afterwards i i was presented these loans but there was zero collateral zero collateral zero oh my god uh servicing history like nothing all the way well we still own these mortgages well sort of was it first or seconds first oh okay first and i think the other thing that's interesting that i have found in the industry is the word charge-off if you're buying charge-offs what a charge-off to one company is not necessarily a charge-off meaning the debt was forgiven it just meant to that company it was not worth pursuing any further so you can have value in charge-offs if you understand what that is and how to pursue a course of action against them that's the other thing that we find we have to be very careful that we use the same terminology in describing something right yeah that a case kind of a case of one man's trash is an immense treasure uh to the bank maybe that's a charge off because it's really not worth anything but to me that's exactly what i'm looking for that's that's perfect uh so not exactly a charger so let's define what that means casey why don't you define what your understanding of charge off means because we have some people that are not sure what that means in general they never seen that term before sometimes okay what if if i'm a lender and i have a hundred loans and those hundred loans are paying every month and then all of a sudden i wind up with 20 of them that are not paying and i go in and i investigate and i think uh oh i'm looking at my collateral it's my house which is the security and it's not really where i thought it was this this borrower has not been keeping the property up i look at the fact that the borrower has gone too long without paying then i look at the cost to do the collection to get the property back and i determine in my business i don't want to spend that much money to collect the debt so i consider it a charge off and i move it to the status of charged up where we're not going to do any more activity the the smaller investment investors may say that's great i have a house i have a borrower i have you know these types of things i can take that and i can look at it and i can possibly restructure it i can possibly do different things to it so that i will gain a cash flow which is what i'm looking for or i may be able to work with a borrower to get them out so that i wind up with the property which is what i'd rather do i'd rather have the property eliminate the borrower and go on so it depends upon what strategies you have as to how you would pursue that non-paying asset many times charge off is an asset that isn't paying and whoever owns it at that time doesn't want to invest anymore right so essentially it's a charge off so therefore they're going to sell it as a non-performing loan because to them it's not worth anything whereas that is my business as i buy these non-performing loans and that's exactly what i'm looking for well one step further if you're regulated and you have these it's affecting your cash flow so you have to put more reserves against it so that's why non-performers are a real problem for regulated enterprises because they've got to offset the cash so for those who are looking to figure what it is means it's an accounting thing that when banks have certain amount of bad debt they have to sell off or move it to a different platform situation so they're charging off that debt and it's no longer on their books counting against the cash reserve they need to have correct awesome so we do have some questions here um i'm just going to feed them to nathan he'll they'll hit them up yeah uh somebody was saying they had some issues with their collateral from countrywide sri ghana saying that uh-huh are you are you oh yeah that's a dumb question right countrywide is bank of america bank of america is a big maze to go through right right but then you can help them out you've got the contacts there and the absolute people again we will look at what they have and we will assist them to determine whether or not we can help them i'm not going to string anybody along we're going to give you a very clear cut we can either help you or this is an issue and this is how you need to pursue it depending upon what you have and do you typically charge them for that evaluation i'm sure you do yes we look at the collateral and then we'll give you our recommendations and then you can go from there absolutely if you're unable to assist with getting that documentation which i don't believe is possible but if they run into a scenario where that company is no longer available um do you is there any way you can help them figure out what they could possibly do absolutely because see i firmly believe that you need to be up front depending upon what you are attempting to do with collateral that isn't in your name for an example i have a loan a hundred thousand dollars against a piece of property it's been through the two owners and i bought it from the third owner in this example we're using countrywide countrywide never moved the loan forward so at the county recorder it still sits in countrywide if i'm going to foreclose against that piece of property and i'm missing that link from countrywide to the next party i need to make sure as the owner of that property that when i work with my law firm that's going to do my foreclosure we deal with that right up front in the court we deal with that right up front with the attorney and we determine how we're going to approach that because we cannot be left with a piece of property that is just in limbo because of a situation of a document we can demonstrate that the loan has been moved forward we have the note we have various different things that will demonstrate the property or the actual debt has been moved but we then go to the title company and say what are we going to do in conjunction with all of us to move it forward again becoming proactive versus allowing that to stall us and not go anywhere okay so we have a new investor asked this question and this i think is a very common question i've gotten and for a new investor should they have me saying this collateral file to you before they buy it during the loan process due diligence or only after they buy the notes that would depend upon how the client feels they want and how much of the evaluation they want to know i don't buy blind so i would say it would be worth their while and their dollars spent for us to look at it and give them back an evaluation in many cases the information we give them may allow them to adjust their price that will more than compensate for the small fee we charge to evaluate nathan have you ever bought a loan before reviewing the collateral i don't think i have so for those newbies let me interrupt you there i will sell you 100 loans today and you will buy them if i have no collateral because you'll price it accordingly yeah right that's the situation you may buy loans without collateral but you're going to price it accordingly and you and i would have had a conversation saying okay what do you think you're buying and how much of this collateral do you think we can gather by virtue of the resources so we have a game plan to do it that's the value added we would give to you and you may not get the hundred assets that you're buying all documented but if you got 70 of them documented and foreclosed upon and gone in your act your your course of operation you will have made a a very very smart investment right i'm going to go back in understanding your risk ahead of time right i'm going to go back to the whole buying process in a second i'm just asking one question i know it's going to come up was a typical time frame for a lost assignment or a situation where you need to collect how long does it take to get that collateral it depends upon where we're having to go i i can't say that it's an immediate situation it's like anything else if we have contacts that will respond immediately it's great sometimes we get caught in the maze it says it's a very strong matter of follow-up it's diligence on the follow-up we don't send out and then wait we send out and follow how about then for the for the document review what's that what's the turn around time for document review collateral review well we can usually get them done in 48 hours provided that you're not dumping a huge amount but if somebody says you know we have one we can get it done very quickly for you on a one-off so that we establish more importantly a relationship for you to understand what we're doing right we can't have you constantly saying oh i got one today and or i got 10 today and stop everything and do it right if you're a client that's looking for some help immediately we would stop and say okay we can get this done for you and those are listening most of the time you're sending them a zip drive you're not seeing them hard collateral when you get to the higher levels you're gonna send it through a letter and whatnot um but most investors here are gonna be getting a zip drive when they make the offer and when they get accepted offer they'll get the collateral sent to them and zip drive flashing and that zip drive fashioning can send a casey wilson and let him evaluate look through the collateral file um you're more likely not to get the hard collateral file you just until you get the higher levels yeah correct and what we do is that we will in our review process we will indicate to you what we have and in what form we have it we have an image of a recorded mortgage we have an image of this we have an image of that and then what we want to do is confirm when the original collateral were to be delivered we sync up and make sure that we get the original of what we have in images or we may get originals in the file that were not imaged that will fix some of our fixes that's why we don't always start immediately until we get that physical collateral file on the curative work okay so there's a question here um can notes be boarded with a service company with incomplete collateral that's a good question could you read the question again it says can notes be be boarded with a service company with incomplete collateral i think referring to if you're if you're gonna buy a note and you're going to load it with you floated into a servicer well they accepted a note without collateral and i not that is casey wilson's this is what casey wilson is not the servicer he's just reviewing the collateral so not that he would know the answer but generally speaking you need to make sure that if you're going to buy a note with no collateral that the service and company doesn't know what to do with it they don't know what the pay history is like right unless the previous seller has collateral of their servicer showing pay history then that will transfer over but the the servicer doesn't need to see the mortgage and note and things like that um well let me let me interrupt you there for just one quick question because that brings up what we see many times as well the note was done ten years ago and the note was at eight percent and when you're looking at this payment stream and you're buying of a six percent note you're wondering wait a minute how did we go from eight to six right our indication would be to you it was modified however we're going to stress to you we need to see the confirmation of the modification in some form because you're going to wind up in trouble if you're collecting six and you don't have anything to support the six right and all you've got is the original note that's why many services are apprehensive about loading something blindly and then you run into this problem not immediately but then when you try to do something you're caught off guard because you we tell all of our clients do not start any collection activity of any kind unless you totally understand what you've got to support your action because you will find there are many attorneys out there right now that represent borrowers that all they're doing is stalling stalling stalling stalling stalling with no intent of ever paying you but stringing staying in your property forever yeah well said so yes you're right if you're more likely you're going to need your cloud before those services so if you're getting a paper without collateral i would even wait on that kind of stuff because the servicer wants to see what the agreement is so they can make sure that p i matches something like that so absolutely yes i can crazy on that i've never loaded along without collateral so it was definitely a question i've not been in before so um so i think you know some of the biggest things too is the collateral is understanding that it isn't a lot right there isn't many things inside of a cloud file but what are some of the key things that this new investors could do just skim before they send it off to you what are some of the items you you know there's a typical five right so could you just share with them what you're looking for initially to make sure those common files are there yes what we would like to see is that we would want to see the document that describes the borrowing of the money normally that is referred to as a note so the note describes the manner in which the borrowers to repay the debt now we also would like to see that note has moved from the originator of the loan to the party you're buying from as if you were endorsing the back of a check either on the back of the note or in attachments that move it from party to party to party then we want to make sure that the note that is referring to a piece of property that is being used as the collateral for the borrowing has that document to secure the collateral which is a mortgage or a deed of trust depending upon where you are now that deed of trust should refer to that note that you are borrowing you are you're buying and it should refer to the same note that you're buying and then again you would want to see that that note or that more deed of trust or mortgage has moved from the originator to the party from whom you're buying then as we've already discussed in prior discussions today the title policy is essential to you because the title policy will ensure that when the loan was made the title company is ensuring you are either in a first if it's a first lien or you're in a second position so that in the case that nathan had should nathan have had a title policy that referred to the mortgage that he had and he had as listed as a first the obligation of removing that prior to him mortgage would be upon the title company that issued the title policy for the mortgage that he foreclosed upon if the mortgage is after the one that nathan bought then nathan has an issue not with the title company but he's got a problem with removing it so that's why we looked at the title company and the title policy because that will help you should something have not happened correctly in the closing of the the mortgage and note that you're buying do you typically request the investor to send you their o e report so that you can compare what is recorded again i think if you're not doing that you'll get surprises yes because we may have a collateral file that has a chain in it going from a to b b to c and c to d but you may find that oh b sold it twice so there's two from b to two different people and they never rescinded one so now we have a conflict or again i think you want to know whether or not the taxes are current whether or not you've got some again glaring issues that are going to come up not maybe the day you buy the loan but down the line should something happen everything is always fine on day number one everything is always fine for the first 30 days it's after the net when you expect your first payment and it doesn't come that you've got some problems or all of a sudden borrowers begin to realize the loans have been sold and they're going to test you as an individual yeah yeah and most time we send our for our client review it's in the file as well as our oe it helps you kind of figure out what was going on the county records but also helps us to know what's going on absolutely because they may many times they do not match a hundred percent yeah yeah awesome so i've had some horror stories i'm sure nathan's had some horror stories you know with this stuff for me i can't see anyone not going through this process i don't i i'm amazed when people don't have their cloud reviewed i understand they have a simple cloud file they can do it themselves but for any person that's new pay the money it's not expensive to have that collateral view and you get an exception report telling you what files need to be fixed and if you're clean it's great and like you said before you can then take this and pass it on to a buyer and resell that note with this exception report saying it's clean well and one other thing i think you need to also understand and this is something that many times is overlooked as you begin in this business and as you get into this when your name becomes associated to the property whether it's correctly or incorrectly associated to the property you pick up obligations as the lender and you want to know what you're going to be picking up by virtue of acquiring the property that even the seller may not have been aware they're doing we've had lots of problems in areas of this country where people have bought distressed properties that unfortunately were knocked down very quickly after they bought them because they were so far gone the cities came in and said no they're they're they're knocking them down so you wind up with nothing other than a plot of land so again you really need to be aware and i'm not trying to scare anybody but again it's a matter of risk you're taking money that you've worked very hard to acquire to then do something further with it you're not gambling with it you're you're using your cash as an investment to further your prosperity not take a hit because you you got submarined by something you didn't realize yeah and it unfortunately some mistakes can be very very costly potentially a lot yes so a couple of comments here in the in their chat chandra was asking if it was bear stearns i remember it is actually enhanced mortgage that's who uh that's who i was looking at this paper from and they just had nothing no collateral documents no pay history no nothing so well cmac will do that as well if you're buying product that came from gmec you can have an issue okay and then matt kelly uh this is excellent he's uh asking to first to explain the importance of possessing and obtaining the origination file loan application the complete pay history as they're needed in judicial foreclosures and collections also for compliance purposes when selling to lenders who may securitize the debt so just that importance of just copies are great and we get the copies when we look at a file before we purchase but the actual paper still matters we're still that's a big big big deal and you've got to have that actual collateral file uh bar none right yeah i think also i think yeah having the original file you're not going to see the original file when you go to buy that loan your when you do due diligence it's when you get the physical file you need to make sure it's wet ink like not a copy right literally the copy was signed so i think what matt was also training is what is your thoughts on having making sure you have the loan application having the complete pay history for a couple reasons bk court may require things like that but also judicial when you're going for closure speak a little bit about having making sure you have those papers for people like us so typically we don't need the loan application right it's small investors but if you're going to sell to a fund who does securitization that's required collateral there again i think that speaks to the volume that you own in order to transfer product you're in you're in buyers if you're looking to to sell loans if you're buying to turn around and flip you need to understand very quickly what your end users are going to require and more importantly you need to understand whether or not that will be physically available before you even start to look at product because a lot of the product that you're looking at that's seasoned is more than likely not going to have all the documentation that they need so you need to therefore be even more diligent in looking at what you're getting if you're buying that with that as a goal to sell it's a very complicated situation to sell to put them into the mortgage backs or that without all the documentation and they don't normally buy one or two loans from people and then collect them right and then nico's got a question here this is kind of a specific uh situation he's got he says he's got a second note in maryland and one of the assignments is lost he has a lost assignment affidavit but the county is not willing to record a lost assignment a loss assignment affidavit is that something that you can welcome does does he have a copy of what was to be recorded or does he not even have a copy of what was to be recorded well we'll see if he responds so that's the biggest problem a lot of times we'll get lost no affidavits and whatnot and those depending on the county and the state can or may not be able to be held right pa you can't even foreclose with something like that at times so well i think there's a difference between a document being unrecorded in a copy format or you don't even have a copy of what was to be recorded okay because if you have the ability to rephrase your lost note affidavit or your lost assignment affidavit to the extent that you can say i have a copy of what was to be recorded and you put all of that together you can work with your title company okay if you're foreclosing you're not just making up something that you think happened you have not got the original but you have what was to be recorded and if it's complete you need to make sure though that what you have meets what you think it does it has to say what on the assignment that it's going from a to b and and again i'd be more than happy to have him send it to me and look at it and tell him here's how i would rephrase my lost assignment affidavit nico if that if you didn't do that where you didn't show the county the original copy the copy of the original as well as the lost note after david try that you know you could definitely try that and if not then reach out to casey i'm sure he'll walk you through the process be sure his loss no his last assignment rep is specifically referring to the fact that they have a copy of what was to be recorded and they are unable to obtain the original to be recorded okay you have to leave them to understand why you're having them you're not just taking a guess having them take a guess that this is here yeah he will send to you he said awesome wow awesome information it's amazing that this world of just collateral file which most investors kind of skip over they focus more on the actual investment itself don't realize that the leverage that this collateral file has over you and you may be buying nothing right if you don't know what you're doing well you'll buy less than what you thought that's true but at the same time there are people you know like you guys out there that can help them through that process you know understand the fact that you may have bought less than what you bought but here's how we can get you to a full level where you can buy a loan that may have less and discounted a lot get casey a step in now it's fully worth everything you can sell to one of us for more money it can happen right right and we and again we we do it both sides just so that people understand we have clients that have us clean it up and make sure that it's all ready to go or we have clients that say okay we're going to sell this based upon what we know we can represent wholly and we'll take a cut or a haircut in pricing because we don't want to go through the process of doing it but we sell it to somebody who knows up front what they're getting and we negotiate a much better price yeah and when i'm purchasing it it makes me so much more comfortable when i ask for the collateral and i'm cc'd on an email that is going to casey wilson and says hey can you guys send nathan the collateral oh that's excellent i know we're in good hands then and so yeah it makes me feel a lot more comfortable on that and again it gets back to what you guys said in the very beginning that you heard i wasn't taking business at different times we i i don't want to be in a position where i'm not a positive person in someone's relationship with the industry i don't i don't do business that way and if i feel that we're gonna have a compatible relationship that's great if i don't unfortunately uh there's not a lot of money to be made if you wind up bouncing around all over the place sure and it's not fair to the buyer and it's not fair to the seller yeah that's awesome that's great guys if any additional questions feel free to put it in the post and uh i'll answer it but we're gonna start wrapping up soon so please make sure you ask that question before we tie up so so again i'm going to ask i've asked many of our guests yes and with your experience and you just the time you've been in the industry what's do you have a crystal ball uh projection here are we in in looking at more non-performing coming up or is that uh maybe too much hype uh from a year ago what do you think i think debt is a serious problem in this country right now whether it's in this arena or not i think people as a whole do not feel any obligation to pay back the debts that they incur so my advice to people is if you're going to be in this business you better make real sure that you understand the collateral you get eventually when the payments are not received and i've had clients and i tell this story one of my first clients was a guy that came to me with 25 loans and said i got these 25 loans casey and they say you'll help me and we'll we got to get through them and this guy took his 25 loans and through pain and suffering we got them all foreclosed upon however he didn't want the money back he didn't want that and he now has 25 pieces of real estate that returned him a very nice standard of living and so he took what he didn't think he was going to get and made something out of it because he's got now the tangible but you have to be prepared to understand how and what you get for your debt that you're buying because that's a problem the courts are not as stringent as they used to be but you have to be prepared to be pro-active as the owner of the debt to make the court go up and down when there's when they're looking at your file and your case going yes yes yes yes not go huh or what or wait a minute i use the story when the judge is looking at your stuff you want his head up and down you don't want him to say well wait a minute what about this or what about that you want every question answered so everything should be discussed before it goes to the court before you be even filed because the last thing you want to do is getting a terrible relationship right you don't want to be on the defense if you're on the defense you've got a huge problem excellent but i think i think there's i think again if you're realistic in what you're doing you'll do very well yeah and you might feel like that is good debt is good for more son right you know i'm the same with you my wife and i have been on a pledge to get out of debt for you know because she had a lot of student loan debt that we got into and mortgages like that but debt in general in this society is is out of control for years car debt college debt the whole works and i agree with you is understanding how to leverage yourself to be in a spot to take advantage of that situation because you're right it ain't going away right right yeah college loans another thing that people are talking about where i know for years you couldn't buy them and then they're starting to be a sellable now which is interesting commercials everything else but debt in general is a huge everyone started leveraging everything so well and again it's it's it's a simple fact somebody owes you money and what do you get for collateral if you get their signature you don't have something you can repossess if you get something you want to make sure what you get i have clients that do car loans and there they do very high interest car loans and every one of the loans they make the tracker goes on the car because they want to know where that car is every single month there are certain things they make perfectly clear i'm offsetting my risk of you being a a high credit risk by putting this on your car so i don't lose it or i'm giving you a loan against your house but i need to have you understand i'm going to be monitoring that you're taking care of it and the taxes are paid and this and that if you're not i'm going to start my plan to make sure i don't lose my investment excellent i love it i love it because it's a it's a good different perspective of what's going on um because it's bigger picture it's awesome correct awesome well everyone i appreciate you guys tuning in nathan casey i appreciate you coming on here and spend an hour on a friday afternoon hopefully it's nice for your edward you know some storms over here in jersey uh but uh i appreciate your knowledge your experience just and you're just wealth of you know being willing to share with everyone i appreciate it and i'd like to make sure your audience understands your first time coming to us don't feel that you're going to get charged we're going to talk to you and give you the our advice and then you know the first time introducing yourselves to us there's no we're not like attorneys and started up we we will we we want to make you happy and see what you've got yeah we like puzzles if you don't like puzzles you're in the wrong business yeah and uh my testimonials you guys have been absolutely fantastic i i've never had any any issue at all uh it's always been a very good uh right and and daniel was on the call so daniel knows that the partnership works daniel's success rate is very good when daniel gets something that's given to him to go through yeah it works it's a it's a well-oiled machine yeah absolutely yeah and those who don't know he's an attorney that does a lot of collateral help with it with investors and whatnot and owns his own stuff as well i did put in the form uh inside the facebook live uh comment box if you want to reach out to him fill the form out and uh we'll share you his bio as well as his contact information so i appreciate it and again have a great weekend everybody yeah take care thank you for the invite hey everyone are you a new note investor who's looking to learn the basics without spending a ton of money or time online or even a weekend away from your family to attend a conference well we have a great beginners video series for you it's 20 different topics each video being less than 15 minutes this means less fluff and direct the content information to learn more check it out at www.jkpholdings slash beginner dash series again that's www dot jkp holdings slash beginner dash series to learn more [Music] hey everybody dave blitz here from jkp holdings on simon nathan turner happy friday bud how are you very good very good good so i think last time we got on uh you're buying some cfds and some notes you put some big offers in how are you others working out for you right now my cfd bids fell through uh i was able to pick up i actually just funded on two mortgages today and then i went in contract on another one yesterday and then i've got some additional bids out uh yeah we put a bunch of offers we've got a recently a bunch of small tapes and some other mixed use tapes we've gotten recently um from the different sources some common sources yeah and uh you never know right um we tried to away from making offers because all it is making offers um yeah the process is good and that's one that's interesting you know one of the key differences between real estate and then notes is if you're making an offer it's with the intention to close it's not just yes a shotgun approach you just throw out a bunch of dummy offers no no no this is for real and i think i think my partner when we first got involved uh he was like what do you mean you just make indicative offers what's that mean right and he couldn't understand the fact that you do all the work after it yeah so yeah those are listening out there don't worry about the fact that making offers right they're indicative of everything else just as long as you've got your calculator working with that data team with those numbers in mind it you should be okay so here's here's actually real quick uh the two that i just closed on that i just funded today uh it was two that i bid on it looked like one of them had fallen out for a while so we were trying to kind of figure out something else to replace it and then the seller came back to me and said hey uh that that one in texas is back up if you're still interested i said absolutely yes i want it yeah and i talked to him later and he said so the the issue was it was with somebody who was just taking their time due diligence was just dragging and they just said you know what just give it to nathan so because and i think i my guess and i don't know this for sure but my guess is that i'm actually paying a little bit less uh but i'm for real and i'm going to close and they know that and so i get the deal instead yeah okay it makes a difference it makes a difference it's it's amazing for people to understand that this networking space for us yeah is all about this this whole bidding process is all about networking it's not about just numbers is you may get a better you may get accepted just because you're of your communication with them calling them up explaining what's gonna happen set the time frame of when you think you'll close by hey listen i'm gonna need ten days don't tell them five when you may need ten right instead of time frame up and just be honest listen i screwed up listen i understand you sell off i just got some gun tied up so i totally agree with that thought process yeah yeah if you're this this is not a mess around kind of thing we're not going through title you know there's not a giant process it's it's your word you're obviously signed a contract but your word and you make it on your word and you're gonna get a lot more business so you know it's awesome because one of the pieces in this puzzle we're gonna be talking today which is awesome and i think the most underrated um education is inside the cloud or understanding it and going through the process of it a lot of the quote-unquote teachers don't go into it and if they stop there right and some reasons because there's a whole lot to understand another time it's just they don't know right and there's things that we just don't learn and we we need that expertise but there's another layer where we don't we can't know because of circumstances we don't have to experience it right so um why don't you uh introduce casey and explain uh get his background yeah i wanted to tell you this story because because this is just recent this is just this last week and this week so last week i'm selling a house uh we took back property in foreclosure in tennessee sorry in oklahoma in tulsa and uh we're selling the property we're we're supposed to close this last week and the closing attorney says well the problem is uh they're in the initial mortgage for some reason it was a hud mortgage and for some reason they wrote it twice and we're not sure why or what the reason wasn't maybe casey has some insight on why they do that i have no idea one of them and it wasn't a second mortgage they was just the same mortgage written twice and both of them were recorded so one of them had been passed down the chain appropriately and it was fine and that's the one we foreclosed on uh and i think the thinking was with the attorney is that once we foreclose it'll foreclose on both when in fact not exactly maybe but not exactly that other one is still out there so what ended up happening is is now i'm stuck i need this other mortgage released before i can do anything or foreclose on that one which i certainly don't want to do that'll take much too much time and energy and money and all the rest so we're looking for a release from hud from the government agency and i'm going oh my gosh so last week you'll remember i put it on our facebook group anybody know anybody from a hunt they can sign me yeah crickets from that side and then i go over to casey wilson and said do you guys have a contact that hud that could sign a release and and the vice president mark he writes back yep yes that's that's the magic um and so this one i don't want to say it didn't have anything to do with the collateral um but i i it was just an assumption that everybody made myself included that that would be okay and of course it's not uh but in fact just this morning i got an update email that the document's been submitted to hud uh return labels all printed and everything else so wow within the coming days we'll have that invaluable it's invaluable right it's just being able to process and move forward with that title being clean yeah yeah that document is worth several thousand dollars to me and so i don't maybe i shouldn't say that i trust me i know [Laughter] i know very well so casey and i first met at an inn conference a couple of years ago and i'm not even sure you'd remember casey but and i believe it was you and mark right and and it was it was an interesting meeting because same as as dave would we'd i'd heard about casey wilson if you need documents tracked down things like that they're the best ones check them out and so we met then and i thought it was kind of an interesting meeting because i felt like we were both kind of checking each other out and just making sure that we would fit well and i was saying so can you really do this because i've had other document chasing companies whatever you call that and uh you know moderate success and i'm thinking here goes another one but but no head and shoulders above the rest casey wilson is definitely my go-to whenever i need something tracked down so that's that's my brief introduction for casey but we'd love to hear where how did you get into this uh what do you guys do let us know basically i got into the mortgage industry 40 years ago and i started in a mortgage company and i did all the origination side and delivered to the secondary market and then i worked for an organization that was taken over by the federal government during the rtc days i worked with the federal government and interfaced with wall street and during my career with the rtc wall street became very familiar with me because i was delivering the most product to them for the mortgage-backed securities that were created and from there the the rtc wanted me to move to washington dc and i was not interested in that so i opened up my own business based upon wall street saying hey we need you to help us get all this product to market you really understand the mechanisms of getting product to market uh and i've never not been busy since and i'm fortunate because i come from a background where my family my father owned his own business and his position was always if you know technically your business you will be successful and if you manage your business based upon your assets of your staff etc you will be successful we have always been relatively successful based upon the size that we're in and we've acquired now a great staff and are able to take more and more business on that's fantastic yeah i tell my kids the same thing i don't care what you do just become an expert in that thing and the technical side yes and as you have said you really need to understand and we have very i have a very different philosophy because as you were saying i interviewed you you felt like to a certain extent yes i've been doing this long enough that i don't want to become an adversary with somebody i want to be a partner with somebody to make them successful we will give you the information that you need to determine whether or not the risk we see is acceptable to you we will not tell you this is a bad risk we'll just say we want you to understand what you have as far as your collateral and more importantly we've been through the foreclosure process so many times we know basically what you're going to find based upon your collateral in this instance now it's not saying that you won't be able to foreclose but you need to understand this could be an obstacle that you're going to need to overcome it's not a slam dunk like you found yes yeah yeah and and nico asked the question how did i not know about that it actually did not show up and i have to double check to be 100 sure i don't think it showed up in our title report which is odd and it should have but yeah i would be curious to see whether or not the attorney doing the foreclosure considered it a re-recording of the same mortgage and approached it from that angle the attorney can make that assumption but if you do not have concurrence with the title company you're going to have an issue and that's where i think we make sure in our relationship that everybody involved in the final conclusion is involved your attorney drew a conclusion but he needed in my opinion should have cross-checked with the title company saying okay when we finish foreclosure we need to get everything cleared off are we going to be in a position to have everything cleared off i'm not foreclosing in a second lean position i'm foreclosing under the assumption i'm at first and everything else will come off right right yeah and this this one has been a bit of a thorn to my side because it's it's with covid and everything else it's just been delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed and so we finally get to the closing table and then this comes up and i'm going oh you're kidding me right so casey let's back up for a second right we have some experienced investors here we have some beginners right right share the overview what your company can provide to both the beginner as well as that advanced investor what are some of the services you guys offer we will give you a review of the collateral documents that you deliver to us using the documents that you've delivered to us either in original or in images or copies we will then evaluate those documents and tell you whether or not we feel you have what we would consider to be a complete set of documents enabling you to gain ownership of two things which are very important to you you want to gain ownership of the note which determines your ability to collect but equally as important you want to gain ownership of the mortgage which secures your borrowing because you're going to foreclose should you have a problem against your mortgage so we would tell you whether or not you have a complete chain moving that into your name without any problem if you have problems we can advise you where the problem is and then we can work together to go back to your seller or in conjunction with everybody determine how we want to resolve the issues that come up and what's the most common issues that do come up the investors we come up with the ownership transfers are not complete that's the biggest problem most people face is that you're buying something assuming that the seller has the ability to transfer the asset to you and the seller may feel he has the ability to transfer the asset to you but he doesn't have compl a complete chain of ownership to him or a missing assignment or a launch or both correct yeah and we've got the situation right and they're not fatal but you need to in my opinion you want to know up front so that you don't get to a situation where all of a sudden you need to do something and you're scrambling i want all of our clients on the offense rather than on the defense we've run into situations where the you know the assignment order launch was then made at the blank and then the seller you know a brought the blank and then bc and d started creating their own assignments and they should have left it blank and they don't um and the other ones have been recorded in the county records as you know recorded aside and recorded and whatnot and we've run that problem where now we're in this region where we have to somehow figure out a way to get the previous original lender to write the assignment to that the buyer b if we're e and complete that chain right because you can foreclose on a blank assignment we can do that in certain states however if it's blank from a to b but then b creates something and record it then you have your problem absolutely yeah and and that's i think where again we want everyone to see what they have and then you can make your own decision as to how you want to move forward with that we also find that we bring value added when you're selling your product if you understand your hiccups you can be prepared ahead of time not to take a bigger head a haircut than you want to yeah you want to be always in my opinion on the offense not defending your products right so you're defending your ownership as the owner of the collateral yeah and and how many times have you seen that dave where are you it's missing an assignment or in the launch or something i mean it's it's way more common than it should be but it happens all the time and sometimes that company's out of business yes you know where huds is hard to get a hold of but you may find a company a new investor who bought it sold it and now was out of the business that company has been folded what do you do then how do you get that assignment recorded when the business no longer exists ameresco is one of those big ones that if you've got stuff stuck in amaresco it's it's very difficult predicament to be in yeah yeah typically llcs hold over someone that can sign off old documents that are previously done but there are companies out there that you you're going to be in really tough shape to be able to foreclose on it which is we all want to be in a spot where you can legally foreclose on these documents and secure the house back right um and you review mods and stuff and you're not doing the legal side of it we're not worried about statute limitations this is just to make sure that you have ownership of the collateral that everything that was originally made is now true for you successfully and in order correct yeah and and you know and i think this is where a company like casey wilson who's been around long enough to have those connections is so vital because you can you can like i say i've had varying success with other people trying to track down collateral for me uh but if they don't have the connection they don't have the connection and it's it's the same as if i was going back to hud to say hey i'm i'm you know ernest inc who's who's there in a stink they want this document signed versus casey wilson that they've dealt with hundreds of times before and they say oh yeah okay another one of those yeah fine and they'll go ahead and do it and the large companies are just like that you know hud and there's the massive size companies where you can't get a hold of the person who needs a side document it just or they don't exist anymore so no one having that that network that connection like casey has is invaluable because he's doing it so long he's had those connections for years yeah right correct so what are the biggest struggles you see investors have that you know that or myths out there that maybe is not true oh i i would say that the biggest handicap or myth most investors find is that they think it's going to be very easy to do this and they don't truly understand the cash requirements that are necessary when you own loans and when you go through the process of collection or you go through the processes of various different things that have to be done in order to get to the end goal that's that's one of the things i see the majority and i think you have to as you have mentioned you need to be able to understand who you are doing business with and more importantly you need to understand what that person you're engaging is supposed to do for you not tell you what to do and and i believe very strongly that you cannot just turn a collection situation over to someone and expect them to do it you as the owner of the collateral and owner of the debt need to instruct the attorney or instruct the collection agent as to where you see yourself and what you're expecting them to do so that as you monitor the progress to the end you're driving the transaction in a positive way versus the defense defensive way yeah absolutely absolutely so daniel singer give you a shout out uh you're the best team possible for any job he needs so thank you dana for reaching out the man um we had mark uh on last week and he asked the question do you ever deal with cfds or strictly institutional paper we can deal with whatever you want us to deal with provided that we're both on the same page as to what you're referencing as what you're speaking of because i've had people say they bought unsecured collateral or they're buying debt i'm like no no no no wait a minute you're buying an obligation to pay but what does that obligation entail i mean if if you just have a stream off of a servicing system and no documentation you're going to have a very difficult time going after somebody to collect the debt yeah yeah i had a situation like that where i actually bought some loans from uh shoot what's the name now they'll come to me after we're done the call i'm sure but it's a it's a mortgage company that was very big in the run-up to the meltdown yeah and then afterwards i i was presented these loans but there was zero collateral zero collateral zero oh my god uh servicing history like nothing all the way well we still own these mortgages well sort of was it first or seconds first oh okay first and i think the other thing that's interesting that i have found in the industry is the word charge-off if you're buying charge-offs what a charge-off to one company is not necessarily a charge-off meaning the debt was forgiven it just meant to that company it was not worth pursuing any further so you can have value in charge-offs if you understand what that is and how to pursue a course of action against them that's the other thing that we find we have to be very careful that we use the same terminology in describing something right yeah that a case kind of a case of one man's trash is an immense treasure uh to the bank maybe that's a charge off because it's really not worth anything but to me that's exactly what i'm looking for that's that's perfect uh so not exactly a charger so let's define what that means casey why don't you define what your understanding of charge off means because we have some people that are not sure what that means in general they never seen that term before sometimes okay what if if i'm a lender and i have a hundred loans and those hundred loans are paying every month and then all of a sudden i wind up with 20 of them that are not paying and i go in and i investigate and i think uh oh i'm looking at my collateral it's my house which is the security and it's not really where i thought it was this this borrower has not been keeping the property up i look at the fact that the borrower has gone too long without paying then i look at the cost to do the collection to get the property back and i determine in my business i don't want to spend that much money to collect the debt so i consider it a charge off and i move it to the status of charged up where we're not going to do any more activity the the smaller investment investors may say that's great i have a house i have a borrower i have you know these types of things i can take that and i can look at it and i can possibly restructure it i can possibly do different things to it so that i will gain a cash flow which is what i'm looking for or i may be able to work with a borrower to get them out so that i wind up with the property which is what i'd rather do i'd rather have the property eliminate the borrower and go on so it depends upon what strategies you have as to how you would pursue that non-paying asset many times charge off is an asset that isn't paying and whoever owns it at that time doesn't want to invest anymore right so essentially it's a charge off so therefore they're going to sell it as a non-performing loan because to them it's not worth anything whereas that is my business as i buy these non-performing loans and that's exactly what i'm looking for well one step further if you're regulated and you have these it's affecting your cash flow so you have to put more reserves against it so that's why non-performers are a real problem for regulated enterprises because they've got to offset the cash so for those who are looking to figure what it is means it's an accounting thing that when banks have certain amount of bad debt they have to sell off or move it to a different platform situation so they're charging off that debt and it's no longer on their books counting against the cash reserve they need to have correct awesome so we do have some questions here um i'm just going to feed them to nathan he'll they'll hit them up yeah uh somebody was saying they had some issues with their collateral from countrywide sri ghana saying that uh-huh are you are you oh yeah that's a dumb question right countrywide is bank of america bank of america is a big maze to go through right right but then you can help them out you've got the contacts there and the absolute people again we will look at what they have and we will assist them to determine whether or not we can help them i'm not going to string anybody along we're going to give you a very clear cut we can either help you or this is an issue and this is how you need to pursue it depending upon what you have and do you typically charge them for that evaluation i'm sure you do yes we look at the collateral and then we'll give you our recommendations and then you can go from there absolutely if you're unable to assist with getting that documentation which i don't believe is possible but if they run into a scenario where that company is no longer available um do you is there any way you can help them figure out what they could possibly do absolutely because see i firmly believe that you need to be up front depending upon what you are attempting to do with collateral that isn't in your name for an example i have a loan a hundred thousand dollars against a piece of property it's been through the two owners and i bought it from the third owner in this example we're using countrywide countrywide never moved the loan forward so at the county recorder it still sits in countrywide if i'm going to foreclose against that piece of property and i'm missing that link from countrywide to the next party i need to make sure as the owner of that property that when i work with my law firm that's going to do my foreclosure we deal with that right up front in the court we deal with that right up front with the attorney and we determine how we're going to approach that because we cannot be left with a piece of property that is just in limbo because of a situation of a document we can demonstrate that the loan has been moved forward we have the note we have various different things that will demonstrate the property or the actual debt has been moved but we then go to the title company and say what are we going to do in conjunction with all of us to move it forward again becoming proactive versus allowing that to stall us and not go anywhere okay so we have a new investor asked this question and this i think is a very common question i've gotten and for a new investor should they have me saying this collateral file to you before they buy it during the loan process due diligence or only after they buy the notes that would depend upon how the client feels they want and how much of the evaluation they want to know i don't buy blind so i would say it would be worth their while and their dollars spent for us to look at it and give them back an evaluation in many cases the information we give them may allow them to adjust their price that will more than compensate for the small fee we charge to evaluate nathan have you ever bought a loan before reviewing the collateral i don't think i have so for those newbies let me interrupt you there i will sell you 100 loans today and you will buy them if i have no collateral because you'll price it accordingly yeah right that's the situation you may buy loans without collateral but you're going to price it accordingly and you and i would have had a conversation saying okay what do you think you're buying and how much of this collateral do you think we can gather by virtue of the resources so we have a game plan to do it that's the value added we would give to you and you may not get the hundred assets that you're buying all documented but if you got 70 of them documented and foreclosed upon and gone in your act your your course of operation you will have made a a very very smart investment right i'm going to go back in understanding your risk ahead of time right i'm going to go back to the whole buying process in a second i'm just asking one question i know it's going to come up was a typical time frame for a lost assignment or a situation where you need to collect how long does it take to get that collateral it depends upon where we're having to go i i can't say that it's an immediate situation it's like anything else if we have contacts that will respond immediately it's great sometimes we get caught in the maze it says it's a very strong matter of follow-up it's diligence on the follow-up we don't send out and then wait we send out and follow how about then for the for the document review what's that what's the turn around time for document review collateral review well we can usually get them done in 48 hours provided that you're not dumping a huge amount but if somebody says you know we have one we can get it done very quickly for you on a one-off so that we establish more importantly a relationship for you to understand what we're doing right we can't have you constantly saying oh i got one today and or i got 10 today and stop everything and do it right if you're a client that's looking for some help immediately we would stop and say okay we can get this done for you and those are listening most of the time you're sending them a zip drive you're not seeing them hard collateral when you get to the higher levels you're gonna send it through a letter and whatnot um but most investors here are gonna be getting a zip drive when they make the offer and when they get accepted offer they'll get the collateral sent to them and zip drive flashing and that zip drive fashioning can send a casey wilson and let him evaluate look through the collateral file um you're more likely not to get the hard collateral file you just until you get the higher levels yeah correct and what we do is that we will in our review process we will indicate to you what we have and in what form we have it we have an image of a recorded mortgage we have an image of this we have an image of that and then what we want to do is confirm when the original collateral were to be delivered we sync up and make sure that we get the original of what we have in images or we may get originals in the file that were not imaged that will fix some of our fixes that's why we don't always start immediately until we get that physical collateral file on the curative work okay so there's a question here um can notes be boarded with a service company with incomplete collateral that's a good question could you read the question again it says can notes be be boarded with a service company with incomplete co....