How We Got Started in Note Investing and What Resources Helped Us | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: Note Investing: How we got started and what books / podcasts helped us along the way. Dave's Goals and Plans: - Planning to attend multiple conferences in the fall - Encourages sitting at lunch tables with people he doesn't know to network - Started flipping houses in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan in 2006 - Created a beginner video series with 20 topics under 15 minutes each at JKP Holdings Nathan's Goals and Plans: - Attended first note conference in New Orleans in 2009 or 2010 - Spoke with Martin Granoff about structured settlements at first conference - Actively seeks networking opportunities despite being shy and uncomfortable with attention - Intentionally joins tables with mostly unknown people to expand learning network Key Recommendations: - Network and learn from people at all experience levels in note investing - don't limit yourself to one mentor or course - Attend industry conferences despite the cost and time commitment away from family - Actively network at conferences by sitting with unfamiliar people, especially during lunch - Don't assume you know everything when starting out - stay open to different angles and approaches - Learn from every deal and every person in the space as each situation is unique Topics Discussed: - How to get started in note investing - Value of conferences and live networking - Transition from real estate flipping to note investing - Importance of learning from diverse sources and experiences - Challenges of property management and long-distance real estate - Beginner resources and training programs you [Music] hey everybody dave putz here from jkp holdings alongside me mr nathan turner good day good day my men hopefully everyone can hear me okay hopefully my computer echoing days are over we'll see what happens it's interesting to say that we've had a lot of awesome guests on in the past months now yeah i think that for me i miss the days of networking live and these are people we consider friends people that we respect we learn from we understand um but we always can learn from them which is cool i hate to have a favorite but i think it's those people who i learn the most from i respect the most it's not being a favorite yeah what's your i tell my wife uh when oh years ago when we first started going to conferences and i came home and i said you know it is so refreshing to be in a room full of people who know what the heck i'm talking about yeah i agree when they say anything then they're like oh yeah then i do this and that and i'm like oh they know we're on the same page here like we understand what we're saying to each other it's it's quite refreshing it's funny you say that because we our wives care about what we do but they don't right they and the people around us really want to be in the room with us to understand we're talking about but there's some times where you just get tired of sharing that story over and over again yeah but you enjoy it just as much but being around people who you feel is someone you look up to or even looked aside to is refreshing right i'm looking forward to it uh we have a bunch of conferences coming up this year that's going to be amazing yeah this fall is looking good oh my god so i we're trying to try figuring out what ones we're going to go to which we're not going to go to um but it's going to be quite interesting come this fall what is going to happen where with that said we've had some awesome guests on that shared just things that i don't think we would have learned if we just kept doing what we did for the last couple years no that's it that's it in fact just recently you and i both had a tape uh shown to us and i don't know that's going to work out but it's an interesting tape and that's it yeah different angle that they want to take on it but that was from a guest that we had here on the show and just because it was working we wouldn't have met otherwise so it's it's been very helpful and useful yeah you know and it's we always say i don't care i'll talk to anyone about the sport the about the investing and i don't care how long they've been doing it because we can learn from each other all different metrics yeah you doing a deal gives me opportunity to learn from you what your experience was what struggles you had what process things you had um we said all the time there's things that you can learn your first deal that we've never interacted with and we can learn from yeah definitely definitely every deal is different it would be great if every deal was exactly the same and you just plug it into a formula but it's just not uh every deal is different people are different their diff situations are different and it's just it's always going to be a new and interesting twist on on kind of the core uh business we had a spreadsheet out projecting out how fast our might grow if we doubled our money every eight months 2011 it was awesome exciting now doesn't always happen that way you get a bubble like whoa what do i do how do i do that so you know when you first get started you have the excitement um some people know that they don't know everything some people go crazy and get involved and buy 10 15 deals um i'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's interesting when you first get started going to conferences do you remember when you got your first conference what you felt like what was the who you're feeling like i so my very first uh note conference was noteworthy back in i think it was it's either 2009 or 10 um and it was down in uh louisiana down in in new orleans and so that was that was exciting just in itself yeah but i get in there and uh stuff that me and my old partner corey had been working on we we kind of thought we'd invented it we you know we didn't know anything about it we were just kind of making it up as we go along and then we got to the conference and everybody knew what we were talking about and and we're doing it so much better than we were and so it was just a huge huge realization that this was a bigger world than we knew of it's still a relatively small world but but there were different ways of doing it and different ways of looking at it and and just all kinds of different new ways of looking at it that we hadn't thought of yet so that was that was exciting come as an expert and realize that you're not right yeah yeah which is great yeah it was great i remember going i think one of my first conferences was in jersey um and i got the privilege of being backstage and talking people and the nervousness of talking to somebody that i didn't know yeah about something that i didn't know much about and you do what i we see all the time with companies you kind of hang on the outside of that circle and like listen in right and we know now we see someone outside come on in get in here you know jump in because you know and there's some people don't push away but when you first started that nervousness of like i don't belong yeah but this space doesn't have a lot of that no and that was the other thing that i found really refreshing like uh for example i remember that very first conference um it was actually uh uh martin granoff was one of the speakers and he was talking about uh structured settlements and so it's it's it's note related very it's a bit of a different twist on notes but but same idea yeah and it really it just kind of opened my mind and went oh there's different ways of doing this and i went and talked to him afterwards and i was i was really surprised you know he's one of the speakers he's one of the experts one of the you know the big guys on campus and he was just so open and friendly and willing to talk and it was fantastic and what a great and that was just kind of i found that over and over and over again that anybody i talk to is just totally open and it's amazing because you go to any other conferences out there that doesn't get the same vibe and i think once you realize that you you you have the ability to sit down anyone next door as we're talking about you know the big time to talk most time is lunch right because everyone kind of sits in different seats and we always encourage you i'll walk around and sit at a table like you know one at me sit next nathan that's pointless right i want to sit next to people i don't know who they are yeah sometimes it turns out good sometimes it doesn't turn out no same thing i'll specifically go to a table where i don't know anybody like maybe one other person but that's it like i i try to you know reach out and listen it's totally uncomfortable i'm i'm shy and i don't you know i don't love being the center of attention but uh and networking is not tons of fun but listen it's part of the deal it's part of the business you've got to just talk to people and you find out so many things by talking to different people it's well worth it and i've told you some beginners who say listen i'm in i'm in a series i'm in a mentorship i'm in sms i'm all good and i tell them you can learn from everybody in the space yeah you know learning from one person is great but you need to learn different aspects we're yeah one of the guys we had in our group last night is part of a bigger group nathan ray just said are you shy um but we had a personal group that sees with another larger person and they were amazed that they've been taking that series for so long and they didn't learn something we just thought that last night and i'm not saying that series is wrong we just have a different angle at it you can learn something from everybody yeah how did you first looking at it come across notes you know it's so funny hey fellow no investor are you looking to learn the basics of note investing so you can get started however you don't want to spend a few hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours online on some training program have you thought about attending a notes conference however you don't want to spend the money or the time away from your family well we have a tremendous beginners video series of 20 different topics with each video being less than 15 minutes this means each video is less fluff and direct to the content visit www.jkpholdings.com beginner dash series to learn more again www.jkp holdings dot com slash beginner dash so when you start going back and you're looking back at and how everything kind of fell into place you go that's that's an interesting progression so i started actually in real estate like i think probably most people do that come into the space uh but i was flipping houses in saskatoon saskatchewan on the other side of the country for me um i had heard from a friend that uh actually not a friend at the time but anyway i had heard that the real estate market was really hot out there this was in 2006.

it's five six somewhere in here in canada yeah and so i i just heard kind of a random comment from somebody and i went really and so i have a friend who lives in saskatoon so i called and if anybody knows saskatoon like it's it's like 250 000 people that's it that's the city wow my dad was born there and so we had visited once when i was a kid you know it's in the middle of prairies and there's nothing around it nothing grain and more grain and more grain you go north you get potash like it's there's really nothing there but i'd heard it's going nuts out there and i'm like really yes what saskatoon i've been there uh okay so made the call and he and he confirmed it he said yeah it's going crazy he said like house prices are just going up and up and up so i had it in my head that i could start flipping houses so i did i would uh i went over and i started buying properties sight unseen i had a realtor i was working with out there i would make a kind of a preliminary you know estimate on what kind of work i was going to do i packed up a sleeping bag and a suitcase full of tools wow i went out there yeah i flew out there and i'd sleep on the floor work 14 hours a day uh and just and just go nuts and just do whatever i could to and it was i never did anything that was part of my formula was i i didn't do anything that was structural it was all just superficial so it was paint floor plumbing fixtures light fixtures you know nothing hardcore i never opened a wall because i don't want to know yeah yeah that was my form that same color on the walls kitchen was always yellow everything else was kind of a beige color and and ripped it out in like a week two weeks and sure enough everything was was uh going up well enough that i was able to sell it most times before i left town uh so i made some good money doing that and that was a lot of fun 2008 comes around i got stuck with one of those properties where it just the market turned that fast and i wasn't able to sell it so it was a rental and so that's my first experience as a landlord and and that sucked yeah the income when it happened was cool yeah of course it was intermittent and my property manager was awful i had to call him every single month you know middle of the month hey is are we getting paid this month or what's the deal and yeah it was just ridiculous couldn't change him couldn't find anybody else in town i'd tried several times it was just a major headache i had to it was actually cheaper for me to fly out there when the tenant changed cheaper for me to fly out there uh do all the new paints and everything myself rather than hire anybody so i just i did that i'd come back and rent it out again and start the whole thing over so it was a bit of a mess and i didn't really enjoy it sounds like a lot of fun wow this is dumb so then 2008 uh watching the tv and seeing all these banks going under and all this craziness going on and just going so what now what what does this mean and it wasn't very long after i was contact contacted by a friend of mine corey uh who's from calgary who'd moved down to southern california and he met up with a group of investors that had got caught in this same issue where they bought 60 properties mostly midwest and they were supposed to just flip it out and the market changed fast enough that they couldn't the deal fell through so they got stuck with these 60 properties they had no idea about the houses that you know they really didn't know anything about real estate they're in southern california everything else is in the midwest so it's just a mess and then markets just going crazy so they said to him listen whatever you can do do it so here's a couple of canadians figured we had invented seller financing because we've never heard of it it doesn't it doesn't really happen in canada i just it's almost completely unheard of i've is it legal to do it's legal and you can but just nobody does and i'm not quite sure why but it's just not a thing um so yeah we thought we'd kind of invented it and and kind of made it up as we went along uh our our first set of contracts were just horrendous [Laughter] but uh then i was doing some internet research one day and i saw something i don't remember how it popped up but from something from eddie speed talking about seller financing and what he was describing was exactly what we were doing and asked that somebody else does this this is the thing so i went down down to houston took his his first class his whatever introductory course that was um i wasn't at the time i wasn't interested in joining his his group but but the information was fantastic um and it really helped helped us to kind of redo our contracts and and to be able to resell and then i went to that note conference and met some more people and donna bauer is one of them and uh she was a great uh mentor for quite some time where she actually when it came time to sell on the land contracts that we've made in in columbus ohio um the other people that i've met all bailed donna was the one that said let's make it work and we we made a deal with a couple of different deals with her actually so she was great um but that's kind of how it got rolling and then you think that was about around 2010 is when um is when we started doing that so 2009 i think was the conference and then 2010 started selling some of these contracts that we created uh and then it was also in 2010 i met jack and jack was talking to me about this non-performing stuff and i thought that's way too risky so he and i chatted for a while and he convinced me to buy a set of three notes from him for a total of ten thousand dollars uh all in columbus right where i was already and uh two out of two two to three of them worked out really well uh and more than paid us back and then some and then that last one we lost for at a tax sale but lost we chose to let it go which was which was empowering just to figure out that oh i can do that i don't actually i'm not directly responsible for that and i'd made back my money so yeah no loss not a big deal anyway like granted or who they who they come from before him they they must have come from granite that's where everything came from back then yeah shout out to chad's out there yeah um so it's it's funny because i tell a lot of people beginning if you're looking to get money or looking to get whatever go to local rios and if you're a landlord at all just share your landlord stories yeah right that's what i did i mean i was a landlord and i had trouble tenants and you know one called the health board on me when she was lying and i couldn't affect it it was just like this is not what the book says no this isn't what i read i'm supposed to be making killer money and it just doesn't make sense people are supposed to pay every month what's going on yeah like you know she would call me about the small stuff and it was not worth me hiring you know whatever it was you know contract for this it was like a little electrical problems of the gfi popped and like what and it was one situation where it just didn't make sense anymore um so when was this when we were when we were 2010 i think it was because it was 2008 when i got the phone call from my friend jack saying like listen i'm flying back i'm going to stay at your house a little while i'm going to figure myself out i'm moving to new york and then he moved to new york and started for dvi and stuff and i got to a conference with him about talking short sales i knew rentals i knew short sales were a thing didn't understand them and then we went through the legal process which helped me in the note space to a point because i understood more things um in realizing what was going on and when he transitioned out of dbi and go to his own is when i sat down in a room with him and he said listen i'm going to show you what i'm doing i need your help i need to evaluate loans and i said i don't know what you're talking about right we sat down we looked at assets you know lists of thousands and he just said give me values i said how do i know the values and smart man he knew the fact that the price was so cheap back then it didn't matter how off you were and we started looking at stuff and i i didn't believe it i didn't understand it didn't believe it didn't make sense like it's just weird and i can imagine what newer investors go through with that mindset of like wait a minute being the bank sounds like a really good sales line right and it's what you are but it doesn't correlate like i'm a breaking order owner i have a property i own a paper like that doesn't make sense yeah um we understood mortgages around i was paying one but owning the mortgage well that doesn't make sense at all why would they sell and all these kind of little questions that i'm sure people have and then i said 2010 i went up to his office and we jumped on some stuff i watched from phone calls with some of his his employees at the time um some people are still involved with the space everything else and i said okay this sounds a legit thing so i was doing due diligence with our different tim and revaluing the stuff and jack was buying it i did wasn't involved in due diligence period of title and research stuff i was just in valuations for two years and then i said listen i gotta buy yeah i called her our friend mark um i said mark what do you got up for sale um i wasn't buying for granted there's still an asset that we wish we got from ground up we missed it we ended up buying a property from mark who bought it from up from granite and we bought a package for fifty five hundred dollars two loans one for five hundred bucks there were five grand um and we were in you're involved yeah and that's when it started even though we were doing all this due diligence evaluation of properties we had no clue what we did next yeah we knew values right when we get this collateral file and not knowing what's inside of it what we shipped it off to i think madison time and said listen here we go tell me what i gotta do and they turn us we can't tell you what to do it's not our job but i liked it because i didn't like the landlord part of it of the experience i had and i think if you get one tenant that's great it looks awesome um if you buy a pool of rentals it kind of weighs it out but buying a one-off loan was a lot different from buying a one-off rental property because i wasn't maintaining it i can do my other stuff or whatever i was doing my day jobs with i can maintain it and just run this one asset right um they can lean on people right and this community that we have together now wasn't around back then no we go to conferences and i think my first conference was around 2011 or so i think i met joe i met i probably met a lot of people we know now that we didn't realize who each other were right the coffee i remember meeting like yeah like i'm brand new on your brand new what are we doing um yeah and then go into the process of buying that asset in that 500 hours we end up the final start but that was the second didn't know they were a second and they finally figured out their second we had the new and the second one really wouldn't sell us off the second for cheap so we actually released the lien on the 500 purchase we made because the owner didn't even know they had the property they were senile and everything else and we turned around and says wait a minute let's release the lien and get out of this whole situation because the house is going to be torn down and whatnot and the other property was in columbus ohio yeah sandusky i'm sorry one of them it was about five grand we sold like 32.

i think it was like we forgot taxes we made like four or five grand but we were static that we made money yeah um it worked yeah when we jumped in more so that was the beginning of it and going to the conferences i was scared even though i was tagging along with someone that was in the space bigger talking to people and just not knowing what to say how to talk was scary yeah um if you guys are listening you've been an aspiration feel free to post questions whatever i think for me going to conferences gave me once i got over that fear gave me the energy to go to him and just talk to anyone there right no matter what level they're at yeah and and again you get in there and you start talking to people and you figure out oh there's not really a lot of ego here and people are willing to talk to you no matter who you are yeah and how many deals you've done or not done it's really not a big deal and people will just chat with you because the more you go along you realize there's so much more to learn and everybody's got something to offer so yeah the trade secrets are the fact that what your what your knowledge one certain thing is and your returns really that's it there is no quote unquote secrets to this stuff it's what return you need having capital and like what angle you're playing on it right your partial control this angle that and those angles are special but that's just knowledge and experience and doing it we all have the angle of knowing notes that's right you thought out there i think back when 2015 they engaged around 5 000 people nationally doing notes yeah i'm going to say it's probably 20 or 30 but in a country of 300 million plus we're very small group yeah um it's interesting to see that when you first got started when you first got the collateral package what'd you do with it what was your what's your wife say like what the hell is this thing i was gonna ask you the same thing so what i did i got this this packet from jack and i start looking at him like holy smokes i get i get all this information on this person like that doesn't seem right i'm like that i've got a copy of their social security card their driver's license all the stuff i'm like that am i allowed to look at this i know no no yeah i am i'm the bank no no yeah i'm the bank yes i definitely have you know the right and and the obligation even to have this information what i did is i opened it up on my desk and i just went through page by page and it was a great file to start with because it had copies of collection letters yeah which is not super common uh but yeah all kinds of like everything so it was it was great that i could just go through and page by page look at it and say oh okay so then this happened oh and then they got this letter and put yourself in that guy's shoes and like oh so how are they feeling right about now where the last thing is you know pay or else kind of thing and it was it was really interesting like if you remember back then um banks were like trying to help people out so it was ridiculous like it was uh you know fifty thousand dollar balance owing and they're willing to take a payoff of 40 000.

like wow obviously that's not going to work you know if they don't have 50 they don't have 40 either and they're not going to just pay it off so it you know it was a nice gesture by the bank to give them a slight discount but it was useless and it was a one-time cash payment it wasn't 40 000 on terms it was if you if you can pay us cash by the end of the month then we're getting money that it's just unrealistic so that was great just go through page by page and i could kind of piece together on each of the three files uh what the story was how did they get to where they are and and why and you know kind of taking everything into consideration yeah and then what i did for those first three is um i decided and this is same in columbus where we had all these properties so i decided okay here's here's the angle is i'm going to try doing this deed in lieu thing i've heard about where i can get them just to sign over the property rather than having foreclosed so i was on you know on site i was in columbus and it took my buddy who's in columbus big dude that that helped with all kinds of stuff down in town there just so i had a backup and just knocked on the door and said so here's who i am here's all the paperwork um you know i'm not here that was my line is i'm not here to collect any money i'm actually here to kind of solve your problem so if you're willing to sign the property over this mortgage goes away and i will completely wipe it out and it was the the first guy we knocked on he's like an old retired army guy and uh he's ready to go right then my mistake was i didn't have a traveling notary with me because they would have signed right then and there uh but i didn't have the notary to sign it over uh so then it took several weeks of going back and forth and then they heard from our friend that they should get money out of this deal all that so we ended up doing cash for keys the second girl we knocked on it was the same kind of thing she's you know both of them these were second properties where at the time it was easy to pick up a second income property uh that of course didn't work out uh so this girl was on the other side of town and knocked on her door and she came to the door and and when i told her my spiel and everything went through the whole thing and i'm not here to collect any money and she just broke down in tears and she's like are you kidding me you know don't don't mess with me on this one are you serious you're gonna just wipe it out and i said yeah i just want the house she's like oh she was completely relieved solved her problem big time which i hadn't considered that angle before that i was helping her like relieving her this massive worry and death and headache and burden and that was a huge again kind of a light bulb moment and going oh i'm i'm not i'm not a bad guy here at all i'm definitely a problem solver i'm helping them to solve their problem yeah something that they desperately want to solve and that's nice i never could figure out why the bank would sell it to us for i mean back then guys this is not today's dollar 30 cents 35 cents for first five to ten cents per second and the bank wouldn't even work with us the borrowers to get a price that low at all and they would sell to us for that i could never understood that when i got involved so it was frustrating to see that kind of situation go on um when i first got the loan package before i bought my first wiring money which i didn't do before choose somebody for this piece of paper that's supposed to make money i think my wife thought i was crazy yeah luckily jags like donald's all good and we i knew the guy in newmark but just wiring money to some guy without an escrow agent or any of that kind of stuff yeah crazy talk yeah yeah that was scary that was scary so what'd you do with that first file did you go through it or did you we went through it i remember we had we had the file here because i didn't know where to send it first yeah right i didn't know what to do with anything to do with it and i didn't know an attorney i didn't know the service or thing i knew i had to send my servicing stuff to a servicer um but i think i this package i had did i didn't know the power of the pack right yeah and i looked through it and i said okay what's this are means of the mortgage i didn't didn't do the margin no no clue i didn't understand it and then i had two assignments in there plus mine so i had three assignments and i was working with my buddy and i said listen this doesn't seem like difficult let's send us the county records record them all i'll send a nice pretty cover letter we got the package back sayings recorded no problem completely out of order i call up and i says i called madison listen how do you guys do this well you have to you know label it i'd label it still wall so now i've paid for two shipping charges two finally sent a medicine i'm gonna send the cloud file to you guys you do it but as i looked through the cloud file i didn't know what i was looking at i had no clue today i'd probably go back and no you know i couldn't even think today what i was thinking at the time yeah um but i remember getting the cloud file i put it in my house for a while i reviewed it and i just didn't understand it that's listen i'm just gonna keep going forward and i knew the fact the asset was a foreclosure we were going through it it was a small house listen we don't really want the house and because i didn't want to rehab um my part of the time wanted to he does a lot of it now but we weren't sure but and of course at the tail end of the story we ended up burning the file because we were so ecstatic about what we did not knowing we should and shouldn't but when we had this file in our hands it was this what they tell everybody how powerful how great it is we didn't know right yeah yeah we just looked at numbers and said numbers worked and when these things do something for us going to the foreclosure process for us was probably annoying to the eternity because every week we're emailing hey what's newest what's stated what's that what do you know the steps we didn't understand the process like you know send that thing out the demand letter okay we're good right no we have a thoughtless penance on like what word is that in a beautiful short sale that's what you you know the first step of it getting it started but i didn't understand it was a legal step yeah yeah i remember like googling liz pendants like what's that yeah the first time you googled it wrong you're like oh yeah yeah you know no idea so getting started and then connecting with people and you know as long as far as i get into this space the more i get into it the less i feel like i know the best i understand and more i'm like whoa i mean we've had people on here to go tom telling us like angles of buying quarter of quarter payments of cory yield blow your mind yeah i think for those who are watching today it's okay to feel lost it's okay to ask questions and ask them multiple people don't ask just one right walk around the crowd and ask a question to everyone what do you do what are the angles here's my situation what do you think because everyone has a different angle different thought process yeah you know for me things started juicing up i mean 2015 i words out at paper source or noteworthy one of them and someone said listen why didn't you start up meet up locally and i did and i started doing that kind of stuff and i found because i'd gone to uh microsecond i had a meetup local and it just phased out and i said okay i'm gonna start my own and then i brought on people i brought out i think my first interview was pro title and um and i had zoom right i didn't have the full version of stuff and i got through the process of connecting and my little facebook group that was designed for new jersey east coast yeah ended up growing and people cross country hey can we tune in and listen to whoever i had on and that's how it went crazy and the people locally were asking a lot of questions um we had a lot of solved issues but we think that we had hopes and dreams right right so we thought that with everything going on we would think that we would be a good connection but we found later it wouldn't be as good okay so but a couple of people out there i learned i think just as much from everyone there that i did here so for those who are listening going out to locarias talking to other real estate people is key right because you're going to learn those kind of things um and get a sense of what you would prefer and yeah so much of this is about your preference yes so figure out what your profit zone first second cfds rentals yeah all this kind of stuff yeah so you you you still have your nine to five yep so how did you go from nine to five employed guy to a business entrepreneur mornings nights weekends between job you know between the hours cell phone and just making it work because the the idea that was all around me was if you don't you're not keeping up right because i want to be part of this group and then if i wasn't doing it i'm not part of it so it became more of a how to get to the next level okay and and be part of these people and be part of this group and if i sat down and watched tv or whatever i was doing i'm not making it so i i drove myself okay yours was more of a just kind of a keeping up with the jones is kind of yeah yeah interesting what made you go from what you're doing to full-time notes what was your driving force you know it's really interesting i i've never had a regular 9-5 before i started doing real estate we owned a couple of fitness franchises curves and that was kind of my my real job before before i started doing notes and then what when the economy changed people don't go to the gym when money's tight so that that kind of went down the tubes but for me it was just kind of a mind shift of um just thinking about about business in general and and going from you know my dad was a teacher and so that's kind of what i grew up with my mom was a stay-at-home mom and so that was kind of my my view on the world is dad goes and works mom stays home you know and it's a nine to five thing and like that's it and my parents would talk about money all the time and about how well we can't afford this and you know money's tight so that's that was kind of my my blueprint growing up and so for me it was a major shift um it was actually my wife's brother so my brother-in-law uh had he he's somebody retired right now but uh he was kind of our our business mentor where he said well you know what why don't you start by reading some of these books and so he he got us into a couple of different books to read and and that's really what kind of changed my mind and went oh i can i you know like when you're a kid when when somebody says you can do whatever you want to do and then i was like oh i really can i really can do whatever it is i want to do yeah and then i started kind of putting that together what is it that i what do i want to do then and start putting that together when you know as we progress in the group and i think um we do have a small group that we keep in touch with um i think that was 2015-16 time frame where we put that together um i remember talking to a good friend of mine and hearing about this thing called a note mba yeah um [Music] and i highly doubt robbie's listening to chad's but i'm chasing but i i wasn't a big podcast person but i was on board a lot let me just tune into it and it was like talking with my friends or with you know jack or tim whatever in about notes and just hear these guys ramble yeah about scenarios deals understanding and i said whoa this is pretty cool yeah and it tuned into it because it was the traction of what they're talking about they're talking about deals that are falling apart deals they're succeeding at um and they're real right and that's what i think attracted me the most to those people that podcast that lasted two years that was the only one around reality of it so guys i encourage you guys go back everyone listening and watching go back and check out the no nba there's some they're still available he's just a rambling in in in robbie's characteristics and subway that was really cool that podcast kind of jumps over me and says listen i gotta do more you know i gotta get involved more and if we look both look back i'm sure we wish we bought more notes back then um and whatnot was there podcast you're listening to to encourage you to keep moving that was a big one you know and and i i like to read books um but at the time there were no books no so so the podcast was was a really good one yeah and just to tune in and and see what other people are doing and and some of the guests they had on stuff as well and yeah just to kind of hear about what was going on and what other people are doing and what they're not doing and all that sort of thing yeah that was that was very very useful yeah yeah it was a great job you know those two together worked out well um you know robbie's personality else but i think for me the podcast became someone i can listen to that understand what i understand on a weekly basis i can relate to when i'm in the car riding or whatever yeah um the only book that i remember reading back then was invest in debt you know january yeah that was a generalization of what was going on and around that time i wanted to invest in that yeah uh i think you know and of course if we're all watching listening we're skipping over to poor dad we all know that buffs around everyone in their mother is ready for staff poor dad so we're going to skip over that poor dad and move to more of the driven books of notes yeah so you know a lot of books came out over the years and we i there's one this came out recently um that i don't have actually out in the store yet they actually interviewed us but i we got a couple of books and the angles these people looked at just different deal scenarios and understanding some stuff was duplication but just understanding it so between youtube videos books podcasts i was able to kind of network without networking right right so yeah and so i brought up from my bookshelf a couple of these so this is the one where i read where i because i came from a house flipping background i was always in and out in and out in and out and so um and that's still how i've run notes so far is just in and out yep so when i heard about seconds i'm like i don't get it you can't get in and out on a note no on a second so so why would you even do that and then um i got gordon's book yeah and and i read that and i'm like oh i get it now that's that's why people would be attracted to seconds it's not what i would prefer and it's not you know my my way of doing things but i get it now i understand why seconds are in the least bit attractive and so that that was a big one for me you know and actually i'm not a big yeah lukan's book was the follow-up to that yeah i'm not a big book person because i'm using on the road or i'm busy i don't i don't relax enough it's usually a book to read on vacation really yeah and then we're at a conference and we learn about self-directed iras oh god what is this there wasn't a lot of books out there about it i don't think there is really good book self-directed besides the older ones out there invest in dentists like that but learning from that i'm more of all so guys if you're a visual person youtube's great if you can read read google podcast podcast yeah there's all different methods of getting knowledge besides just getting on social media and asking questions and go to conferences i remember my first conference and i thought one of my first conferences actually paid for shorts whoever was and immersed myself saying i'm going to spend like 1500 through miranda's conference man this is not going to be worth it yeah and i i have to honestly say there's every conference i've been to i do not regret any of the dollars i've spent going for whatever reason or the time no you feel bad your family's home yeah but once i'm there it's like going to the gym and working out you feel great when you're there but you always come away with something right um you know i think you know paper source where in vegas well i flew with nathan yeah spent two hours bs in in the in the airport that i not spoken before and that that experience allowed me to learn things about how he did things and now i look back my email i think when my first emails nathan was back in 2013 i'd probably have some stuff back in my gemini days my email but that connection wasn't made but once you go to the conference you sit down and have lunch somebody or talk with them that connection has yeah right yeah there's a ton coming up soon too guys we'll be having some of the people presenting the conferences later in august uh we're gonna talk about those things in each different conference is geared for a different population of people yes can you attend imf you can but if you're a beginner you're not going to grab you're not it's not going to be as good for you it's honestly yeah yeah and certain conferences are lower level where they're geared for certain tracks or financing whatever so we're going to have a couple of these guys on um in a few weeks coming up and they do different topics as well like you say like like an imn is actually quite usually they're pretty specific um there's one coming up about non-qm so the non-qualified mortgage space uh if you're brand new to the space that's that's probably over your head and that's not a dig that's just it just is so it's it's not worth it don't bother so just to give an example me and anything where the i am in miami whatever it was yeah and i sat down with somebody you know feel confident i'm gonna talk to him um it ended up being someone i actually knew just didn't know the name of it and they're like yeah we did you know we spent 300 million last month on assets yeah what like i can't even intertwine that right that's yeah um so i said to myself hey i can learn from this person i'm not blown person-wise let me sit down talk and i talked they were cordial they're friendly and walked on right i'm not going to sit there and ask him no any questions that's just not fair to him in his time he's dealing with other people right everybody from fannie and freddie and all that good stuff so they're just not interplaying that stuff but i also sat there with somebody that i emailed before with and didn't know who they were and got that knowledge or you learned something from somebody i must sit down with uh dave um for his name but and you're like oh wow and he found out about my day job like what what do you do and then the personal connection you make so i get the fact you review going to um a conference may not fit you yet but i think getting to him is good um i know ray asked um conference recognition for total newbies um dmes will be talking dme coming up that's a great one for beginners right um they have some higher level stuff but also some stuff that's on your playing ground right introductional stuff um node expo paper source or you can get something from them it's the higher level that meant for funds that are just geared and i can tell you you can figure out who is your level or not but if you don't understand the words inside definition of the conference it's not for you it's not right right that's exactly it so what jump started you go from one asset to higher like what you know you've gotten to one asset a lot of people one or two assets are done they're out of it what helped you get up there i you know going from again it's kind of a progression like i bought those that package those three and went oh wow this is a thing uh so i started any time uh anything would come up in columbus and i i've i stayed focused in columbus for for quite a while there yeah anything that came up in columbus i was all over it and i knew the city really well yep um so i could tell you know not just zip code i could tell you the street so if it's on hudson you're okay if you're down on cleveland and not so much you know and i could tell you you know block by block uh where's the good areas and everything so that that worked really well especially at the beginning yeah um going forward uh you know it's really interesting going forward then i started working for another hedge fund for a little bit uh which i i didn't enjoy nearly as much i it wasn't nearly as fun it was a lot a lot of sales and that's just not really my thing so i went from that and and i was just kind of in confusion and just not sure what i was going to do and and what's happening next and all this sort of thing i knew i really liked notes um i didn't have any money of my own to invest in about 2014-15 okay um and it was actually i was i was getting frustrated enough with just everything that was going on that i i considered leaving notes all together yeah we've been there we've all been there yeah yeah i've got a friend um who works for royal bank of canada and as a mortgage lender so i said you know what i understand mortgages it's not very different from what i'm doing already maybe i should just do that so he lives in a town uh halfway between here in toronto so my wife and i and he he and his wife had just moved into a new place and they're like oh come and see come and see it we're like sure yeah whatever we're on our way to toronto anyway so we stopped in and and both of us were just kind of frustrated with everything and we're like do we stop do we not you know we're not really in the mood for this kind of thing whatever and i'm like no i i gotta at least talk to him yeah so we get off and and he's there and he's super friendly and everything else and he's like oh let's go for dinner i'm like sure you're paying sure yeah so we go out and uh i just kind of started unloading a little bit on my frustrations and then just it was just bothering me and i don't know what to do next and i'm not really sure kind of halfway gearing up to say you know he had offered before he's like if you want to get into into the lending space for the bank let me know and so i was kind of leaning that way and then he goes uh i kind of vented for a bit and he says okay so then what do you want to do then like what what do you want to do and i just kind of uh i couldn't answer like i was coming but i don't want but whatever his part so i was totally dumbfounded so we ended up spending the night there at his place and and off to toronto the next day and my wife who's fantastic with the kids weren't with us or anything it was perfect and she got out a piece of paper and pencil and said okay so what do you want to do i'm like okay if i was going to do this if i'm going to keep going in notes this is what i do and i started just detailing it i said well i would start by teaching people because i don't think anybody's going to give me money until they understand the business and started going into that and because i knew it well enough yeah started teaching people and i would offer a class and this is how i do it and and that you know i'm not interested in mentoring but i would do it this way in that way and just like for the next four hours i just kind of detailed and said so i would do it this way and that way and this way and that way once i get people to trust me enough to give me money then i would go and do this and just kind of point by point and said this so this is what i would do and it's really a shame that we didn't hold on to that piece of paper because that's very extremely close to what i'm doing right now so that's it's so it was very much a planned set of of ideas of what we're going to do next my first jv partner because i didn't have a lot of money myself came from my meetup group yeah besides my friends jackson first person outside my closeness came from meetup group they didn't know that my first jv right i think it made it to a point that i'd done a few deals but i wasn't perfect and their answer was i just want to learn it and the mentality going into it was i don't care if i lose money here i want to learn it in just like college i spend money to learn i want to learn yeah didn't go well i learned a whole lot started hitting yeah we're still friends which is cool um but his because he had a lot of knowledge about lost older gentlemen um kevin just awesome knowledgeable guy and i and when i found becoming a jb partner with this guy those who you like right those who you work well with together you get closer to and you start talking more and you spend time with them more but i would go to these arenas and so that and share my i'm no longer a landlord i'm a lean lord kind of and people are attracted to and you'll find people wanting to learn more about it based on that knowledge um i think for me that made a lot of sense uh it was same thing i i put together actually three different meetup groups one in montreal one in ottawa one in toronto and i would just kind of do the tour and i would i would kind of give my spiel about so this is what notes are and by the end i usually actually had somebody asking me okay so what do you want from us then well actually that's my next i can either teach you how to do it or you can give me your money and i'll do it for you yeah and i was shocked at how many people took option two yeah i just i for myself i've always been a do-it-yourself kind of guy so i always figured that's how people were going to go but so i was floored when people said well no you never ask me what people want because of what you would want forward that way too like yeah why would a borrower do that doesn't don't talk about why it doesn't matter yeah you know you know and surprises come along the way you know we look back and you forget about assets you've had you have all these stories what i think is different from being in a fun level is you have the individual stories of people i remember getting a phone call with borrowers like you do and having that talk and like making it real like and this person like i felt bad i could not do anything with the loan there was nothing i could do she did couldn't afford the house anymore that hurt and i was like listen this has been a burden to you there's nothing i can do to make this work for you and she's thanks for being honest yeah and that personal situation is interesting i don't encourage everyone to talk to the borrowers but you know as you get through it you can you can definitely reach out to talk to them because you want to work what you can and can't say yeah um it's awesome so i think moving forward those who are still listening on stuff make sure you hit the check the youtube channel and hit that bell and also i got a message from my trade desk make sure you hit that bell notification bell and whatever on youtube um we do an event on facebook group every week um the next couple weeks are gonna be every material next week um i don't know if i'm gonna describe what we're doing next week um i would just encourage everyone if you can reset your alarm clocks bells whatever you got um i guess we can talk about we're gonna talk about debt licenses yeah for note collectors nationwide so what does that mean certain states require you to have a license to own a note and collect debt on it some states don't some coins require a bond we're going to have someone on that is a specialist in this space so make sure you tune in next week it's going to be a lot of material a lot of information we are not going to go deal specific we're going to talk generalities um but it's going to be a treat yeah it's very interesting what do you see in six months ah [Laughter] i still think we're we're headed to um a whole bunch of foreclosures i know the government is trying desperately to avoid that uh and i get it i understand why that's a lot of voters uh but it's it's unavoidable and you know whether that's you know october 3rd or whether that's december 3rd or january 3rd it doesn't matter it's coming um and it's it's a hard situation and it is not easy and there's got a lot a lot of people that are going to be in a lot of trouble which is why we're here and and that's as entrepreneurs that's what we do is we help solve problems and so as much as i'm not looking forward to the pain and hurt that a lot of people are going to go through i i know that i can be part of the solution so i'm looking forward to that part of that know the fact that um as i'm sure you guys don't know my wife's medical she's had a rampant case covet student back up so just be knowledgeable that this may come back where september october and the government can't solve this forever um i'd be very curious to see what happens my guess is where once the government stops supporting the situation by money-wise and bound people out right now about six months later is when things are gonna go haywire yeah because banks won't be a little money out on delinquent debt right there's a whole talk if you don't know about i'm sure we have a video or whatever we can always bring back up that banks sell assets because they can't have defaulted assets on their books because they can't loan out more money they can only have a certain amount of debt um so you have to let it out and then they what they do they write off on their books like it's called charge off um it's accounting stuff but that when that happens that's why i think lappo can't answer what's happened six months it's once that happened that trigger happened to let's go i think that's when things are gonna transpire yeah yeah we're gonna see it what does it look like yeah what kind of level are we looking at that's hard to to yeah gauge um i don't think it's gonna be a 2008 kind of uh um but you know like i say there's going to be unfortunately millions of people that are going to be in big trouble yeah um and a lot of maybe landlords too yeah that the tenants aren't paying they can't pay um we're gonna see this will be very interesting so guys out there i hope this uh i'm i this is apologize of like in your face kind of open talk kind of conference talk here that people share the reality what we are um we're not people with thousands of loans in our belt but we've dealt with a lot of assets and building around people that the collection of all of us will make us better stronger people than anything else so yeah it's been a pleasure guys it's been fun um but i encourage everyone make sure i'll uh i'll set the event up probably pretty soon on the facebook group um east coast group and make sure you tune in i'll probably send email out if you have questions about that webinar please send over again we're not gonna answer every question out there we're going to let them talk uh you're welcome amy guys i appreciate you guys tuning in nathan i appreciate you sharing with everyone and sharing with me your story it's been an awesome time man it's everybody's got a journey get on and ride it it's a lot of fun yeah yeah well guys if you get any questions feel free to reach out to nathan reach out to myself check out the youtube channel facebook group and our web our websites so i appreciate it enjoy and uh take care have a bunch of conferences coming up this year that's going to be amazing yeah this fall is looking good oh my god so i we're trying to try figuring out what ones we're going to go to which we're not going to go to um but it's going to be quite interesting come this fall what is going to happen where with that said we've had some awesome guests on that shared just things that i don't think we would have learned if we just kept doing what we did for the last couple years no that's it that's it in fact just recently you and i both had a tape uh shown to us and i don't know that's going to work out but it's an interesting tape and that's it yeah different angle that they want to take on it but that was from a guest that we had here on the show and just because it was working we wouldn't have met otherwise so it's it's been very helpful and useful yeah you know and it's we always say i don't care i'll talk to anyone about the sport the about the investing and i don't care how long they've been doing it because we can learn from each other all different metrics yeah you doing a deal gives me opportunity to learn from you what your experience was what struggles you had what process things you had um we said all the time there's things that you can learn your first deal that we've never interacted with and we can learn from yeah definitely definitely every deal is different it would be great if every deal was exactly the same and you just plug it into a formula but it's just not uh every deal is different people are different their diff situations are different and it's just it's always going to be a new and interesting twist on on kind of the core uh business we had a spreadsheet out projecting out how fast our might grow if we doubled our money every eight months 2011 it was awesome exciting now doesn't always happen that way you get a bubble like whoa what do i do how do i do that so you know when you first get started you have the excitement um some people know that they don't know everything some people go crazy and get involved and buy 10 15 deals um i'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's interesting when you first get started going to conferences do you remember when you got your first conference what you felt like what was the who you're feeling like i so my very first uh note conference was noteworthy back in i think it was it's either 2009 or 10 um and it was down in uh louisiana down in in new orleans and so that was that was exciting just in itself yeah but i get in there and uh stuff that me and my old partner corey had been working on we we kind of thought we'd invented it we you know we didn't know anything about it we were just kind of making it up as we go along and then we got to the conference and everybody knew what we were talking about and and we're doing it so much better than we were and so it was just a huge huge realization that this was a bigger world than we knew of it's still a relatively small world but but there were different ways of doing it and different ways of looking at it and and just all kinds of different new ways of looking at it that we hadn't thought of yet so that was that was exciting come as an expert and realize that you're not right yeah yeah which is great yeah it was great i remember going i think one of my first conferences was in jersey um and i got the privilege of being backstage and talking people and the nervousness of talking to somebody that i didn't know yeah about something that i didn't know much about and you do what i we see all the time with companies you kind of hang on the outside of that circle and like listen in right and we know now we see someone outside come on in get in here you know jump in because you know and there's some people don't push away but when you first started that nervousness of like i don't belong yeah but this space doesn't have a lot of that no and that was the other thing that i found really refreshing like uh for example i remember that very first conference um it was actually uh uh martin granoff was one of the speakers and he was talking about uh structured settlements and so it's it's it's note related very it's a bit of a different twist on notes but but same idea yeah and it really it just kind of opened my mind and went oh there's different ways of doing this and i went and talked to him afterwards and i was i was really surprised you know he's one of the speakers he's one of the experts one of the you know the big guys on campus and he was just so open and friendly and willing to talk and it was fantastic and what a great and that was just kind of i found that over and over and over again that anybody i talk to is just totally open and it's amazing because you go to any other conferences out there that doesn't get the same vibe and i think once you realize that you you you have the ability to sit down anyone next door as we're talking about you know the big time to talk most time is lunch right because everyone kind of sits in different seats and we always encourage you i'll walk around and sit at a table like you know one at me sit next nathan that's pointless right i want to sit next to people i don't know who they are yeah sometimes it turns out good sometimes it doesn't turn out no same thing i'll specifically go to a table where i don't know anybody like maybe one other person but that's it like i i try to you know reach out and listen it's totally uncomfortable i'm i'm shy and i don't you know i don't love being the center of attention but uh and networking is not tons of fun but listen it's part of the deal it's part of the business you've got to just talk to people and you find out so many things by talking to different people it's well worth it and i've told you some beginners who say listen i'm in i'm in a series i'm in a mentorship i'm in sms i'm all good and i tell them you can learn from everybody in the space yeah you know learning from one person is great but you need to learn different aspects we're yeah one of the guys we had in our group last night is part of a bigger group nathan ray just said are you shy um but we had a personal group that sees with another larger person and they were amazed that they've been taking that series for so long and they didn't learn something we just thought that last night and i'm not saying that series is wrong we just have a different angle at it you can learn something from everybody yeah how did you first looking at it come across notes you know it's so funny hey fellow no investor are you looking to learn the basics of note investing so you can get started however you don't want to spend a few hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours online on some training program have you thought about attending a notes conference however you don't want to spend the money or the time away from your family well we have a tremendous beginners video series of 20 different topics with each video being less than 15 minutes this means each video is less fluff and direct to the content visit www.jkpholdings.com beginner dash series to learn more again www.jkp holdings dot com slash beginner dash so when you start going back and you're looking back at and how everything kind of fell into place you go that's that's an interesting progression so i started actually in real estate like i think probably most people do that come into the space uh but i was flipping houses in saskatoon saskatchewan on the other side of the country for me um i had heard from a friend that uh actually not a friend at the time but anyway i had heard that the real estate market was really hot out there this was in 2006.

it's five six somewhere in here in canada yeah and so i i just heard kind of a random comment from somebody and i went really and so i have a friend who lives in saskatoon so i called and if anybody knows saskatoon like it's it's like 250 000 people that's it that's the city wow my dad was born there and so we had visited once when i was a kid you know it's in the middle of prairies and there's nothing around it nothing grain and more grain and more grain you go north you get potash like it's there's really nothing there but i'd heard it's going nuts out there and i'm like really yes what saskatoon i've been there uh okay so made the call and he and he confirmed it he said yeah it's going crazy he said like house prices are just going up and up and up so i had it in my head that i could start flipping houses so i did i would uh i went over and i started buying properties sight unseen i had a realtor i was working with out there i would make a kind of a preliminary you know estimate on what kind of work i was going to do i packed up a sleeping bag and a suitcase full of tools wow i went out there yeah i flew out there and i'd sleep on the floor work 14 hours a day uh and just and just go nuts and just do whatever i could to and it was i never did anything that was part of my formula was i i didn't do anything that was structural it was all just superficial so it was paint floor plumbing fixtures light fixtures you know nothing hardcore i never opened a wall because i don't want to know yeah yeah that was my form that same color on the walls kitchen was always yellow everything else was kind of a beige color and and ripped it out in like a week two weeks and sure enough everything was was uh going up well enough that i was able to sell it most times before i left town uh so i made some good money doing that and that was a lot of fun 2008 comes around i got stuck with one of those properties where it just the market turned that fast and i wasn't able to sell it so it was a rental and so that's my first experience as a landlord and and that sucked yeah the income when it happened was cool yeah of course it was intermittent and my property manager was awful i had to call him every single month you know middle of the month hey is are we getting paid this month or what's the deal and yeah it was just ridiculous couldn't change him couldn't find anybody else in town i'd tried several times it was just a major headache i had to it was actually cheaper for me to fly out there when the tenant changed cheaper for me to fly out there uh do all the new paints and everything myself rather than hire anybody so i just i did that i'd come back and rent it out again and start the whole thing over so it was a bit of a mess and i didn't really enjoy it sounds like a lot of fun wow this is dumb so then 2008 uh watching the tv and seeing all these banks going under and all this craziness going on and just going so what now what what does this mean and it wasn't very long after i was contact contacted by a friend of mine corey uh who's from calgary who'd moved down to southern california and he met up with a group of investors that had got caught in this same issue where they bought 60 properties mostly midwest and they were supposed to just flip it out and the market changed fast enough that they couldn't the deal fell through so they got stuck with these 60 properties they had no idea about the houses that you know they really didn't know anything about real estate they're in southern california everything else is in the midwest so it's just a mess and then markets just going crazy so they said to him listen whatever you can do do it so here's a couple of canadians figured we had invented seller financing because we've never heard of it it doesn't it doesn't really happen in canada i just it's almost completely unheard of i've is it legal to do it's legal and you can but just nobody does and i'm not quite sure why but it's just not a thing um so yeah we thought we'd kind of invented it and and kind of made it up as we went along uh our our first set of contracts were just horrendous [Laughter] but uh then i was doing some internet research one day and i saw something i don't remember how it popped up but from something from eddie speed talking about seller financing and what he was describing was exactly what we were doing and asked that somebody else does this this is the thing so i went down down to houston took his his first class his whatever introductory course that was um i wasn't at the time i wasn't interested in joining his his group but but the information was fantastic um and it really helped helped us to kind of redo our contracts and and to be able to resell and then i went to that note conference and met some more people and donna bauer is one of them and uh she was a great uh mentor for quite some time where she actually when it came time to sell on the land contracts that we've made in in columbus ohio um the other people that i've met all bailed donna was the one that said let's make it work and we we made a deal with a couple of different deals with her actually so she was great um but that's kind of how it got rolling and then you think that was about around 2010 is when um is when we started doing that so 2009 i think was the conference and then 2010 started selling some of these contracts that we created uh and then it was also in 2010 i met jack and jack was talking to me about this non-performing stuff and i thought that's way too risky so he and i chatted for a while and he convinced me to buy a set of three notes from him for a total of ten thousand dollars uh all in columbus right where i was already and uh two out of two two to three of them worked out really well uh and more than paid us back and then some and then that last one we lost for at a tax sale but lost we chose to let it go which was which was empowering just to figure out that oh i can do that i don't actually i'm not directly responsible for that and i'd made back my money so yeah no loss not a big deal anyway like granted or who they who they come from before him they they must have come from granite that's where everything came from back then yeah shout out to chad's out there yeah um so it's it's funny because i tell a lot of people beginning if you're looking to get money or looking to get whatever go to local rios and if you're a landlord at all just share your landlord stories yeah right that's what i did i mean i was a landlord and i had trouble tenants and you know one called the health board on me when she was lying and i couldn't affect it it was just like this is not what the book says no this isn't what i read i'm supposed to be making killer money and it just doesn't make sense people are supposed to pay every month what's going on yeah like you know she would call me about the small stuff and it was not worth me hiring you know whatever it was you know contract for this it was like a little electrical problems of the gfi popped and like what and it was one situation where it just didn't make sense anymore um so when was this when we were when we were 2010 i think it was because it was 2008 when i got the phone call from my friend jack saying like listen i'm flying back i'm going to stay at your house a little while i'm going to figure myself out i'm moving to new york and then he moved to new york and started for dvi and stuff and i got to a conference with him about talking short sales i knew rentals i knew short sales were a thing didn't understand them and then we went through the legal process which helped me in the note space to a point because i understood more things um in realizing what was going on and when he transitioned out of dbi and go to his own is when i sat down in a room with him and he said listen i'm going to show you what i'm doing i need your help i need to evaluate loans and i said i don't know what you're talking about right we sat down we looked at assets you know lists of thousands and he just said give me values i said how do i know the values and smart man he knew the fact that the price was so cheap back then it didn't matter how off you were and we started looking at stuff and i i didn't believe it i didn't understand it didn't believe it didn't make sense like it's just weird and i can imagine what newer investors go through with that mindset of like wait a minute being the bank sounds like a really good sales line right and it's what you are but it doesn't correlate like i'm a breaking order owner i have a property i own a paper like that doesn't make sense yeah um we understood mortgages around i was paying one but owning the mortgage well that doesn't make sense at all why would they sell and all these kind of little questions that i'm sure people have and then i said 2010 i went up to his office and we jumped on some stuff i watched from phone calls with some of his his employees at the time um some people are still involved with the space everything else and i said okay this sounds a legit thing so i was doing due diligence with our different tim and revaluing the stuff and jack was buying it i did wasn't involved in due diligence period of title and research stuff i was just in valuations for two years and then i said listen i gotta buy yeah i called her our friend mark um i said mark what do you got up for sale um i wasn't buying for granted there's still an asset that we wish we got from ground up we missed it we ended up buying a property from mark who bought it from up from granite and we bought a package for fifty five hundred dollars two loans one for five hundred bucks there were five grand um and we were in you're involved yeah and that's when it started even though we were doing all this due diligence evaluation of properties we had no clue what we did next yeah we knew values right when we get this collateral file and not knowing what's inside of it what we shipped it off to i think madison time and said listen here we go tell me what i gotta do and they turn us we can't tell you what to do it's not our job but i liked it because i didn't like the landlord part of it of the experience i had and i think if you get one tenant that's great it looks awesome um if you buy a pool of rentals it kind of weighs it out but buying a one-off loan was a lot different from buying a one-off rental property because i wasn't maintaining it i can do my other stuff or whatever i was doing my day jobs with i can maintain it and just run this one asset right um they can lean on people right and this community that we have together now wasn't around back then no we go to conferences and i think my first conference was around 2011 or so i think i met joe i met i probably met a lot of people we know now that we didn't realize who each other were right the coffee i remember meeting like yeah like i'm brand new on your brand new what are we doing um yeah and then go into the process of buying that asset in that 500 hours we end up the final start but that was the second didn't know they were a second and they finally figured out their second we had the new and the second one really wouldn't sell us off the second for cheap so we actually released the lien on the 500 purchase we made because the owner didn't even know they had the property they were senile and everything else and we turned around and says wait a minute let's release the lien and get out of this whole situation because the house is going to be torn down and whatnot and the other property was in columbus ohio yeah sandusky i'm sorry one of them it was about five grand we sold like 32.

i think it was like we forgot taxes we made like four or five grand but we were static that we made money yeah um it worked yeah when we jumped in more so that was the beginning of it and going to the conferences i was scared even though i was tagging along with someone that was in the space bigger talking to people and just not knowing what to say how to talk was scary yeah um if you guys are listening you've been an aspiration feel free to post questions whatever i think for me going to conferences gave me once i got over that fear gave me the energy to go to him and just talk to anyone there right no matter what level they're at yeah and and again you get in there and you start talking to people and you figure out oh there's not really a lot of ego here and people are willing to talk to you no matter who you are yeah and how many deals you've done or not done it's really not a big deal and people will just chat with you because the more you go along you realize there's so much more to learn and everybody's got something to offer so yeah the trade secrets are the fact that what your what your knowledge one certain thing is and your returns really that's it there is no quote unquote secrets to this stuff it's what return you need having capital and like what angle you're playing on it right your partial control this angle that and those angles are special but that's just knowledge and experience and doing it we all have the angle of knowing notes that's right you thought out there i think back when 2015 they engaged around 5 000 people nationally doing notes yeah i'm going to say it's probably 20 or 30 but in a country of 300 million plus we're very small group yeah um it's interesting to see that when you first got started when you first got the collateral package what'd you do with it what was your what's your wife say like what the hell is this thing i was gonna ask you the same thing so what i did i got this this packet from jack and i start looking at him like holy smokes i get i get all this information on this person like that doesn't seem right i'm like that i've got a copy of their social security card their driver's license all the stuff i'm like that am i allowed to look at this i know no no yeah i am i'm the bank no no yeah i'm the bank yes i definitely have you know the right and and the obligation even to have this information what i did is i opened it up on my desk and i just went through page by page and it was a great file to start with because it had copies of collection letters yeah which is not super common uh but yeah all kinds of like everything so it was it was great that i could just go through and page by page look at it and say oh okay so then this happened oh and then they got this letter and put yourself in that guy's shoes and like oh so how are they feeling right about now where the last thing is you know pay or else kind of thing and it was it was really interesting like if you remember back then um banks were like trying to help people out so it was ridiculous like it was uh you know fifty thousand dollar balance owing and they're willing to take a payoff of 40 000.

like wow obviously that's not going to work you know if they don't have 50 they don't have 40 either and they're not going to just pay it off so it you know it was a nice gesture by the bank to give them a slight discount but it was useless and it was a one-time cash payment it wasn't 40 000 on terms it was if you if you can pay us cash by the end of the month then we're getting money that it's just unrealistic so that was great just go through page by page and i could kind of piece together on each of the three files uh what the story was how did they get to where they are and and why and you know kind of taking everything into consideration yeah and then what i did for those first three is um i decided and this is same in columbus where we had all these properties so i decided okay here's here's the angle is i'm going to try doing this deed in lieu thing i've heard about where i can get them just to sign over the property rather than having foreclosed so i was on you know on site i was in columbus and it took my buddy who's in columbus big dude that that helped with all kinds of stuff down in town there just so i had a backup and just knocked on the door and said so here's who i am here's all the paperwork um you know i'm not here that was my line is i'm not here to collect any money i'm actually here to kind of solve your problem so if you're willing to sign the property over this mortgage goes away and i will completely wipe it out and it was the the first guy we knocked on he's like an old retired army guy and uh he's ready to go right then my mistake was i didn't have a traveling notary with me because they would have signed right then and there uh but i didn't have the notary to sign it over uh so then it took several weeks of going back and forth and then they heard from our friend that they should get money out of this deal all that so we ended up doing cash for keys the second girl we knocked on it was the same kind of thing she's you know both of them these were second properties where at the time it was easy to pick up a second income property uh that of course didn't work out uh so this girl was on the other side of town and knocked on her door and she came to the door and and when i told her my spiel and everything went through the whole thing and i'm not here to collect any money and she just broke down in tears and she's like are you kidding me you know don't don't mess with me on this one are you serious you're gonna just wipe it out and i said yeah i just want the house she's like oh she was completely relieved solved her problem big time which i hadn't considered that angle before that i was helping her like relieving her this massive worry and death and headache and burden and that was a huge again kind of a light bulb moment and going oh i'm i'm not i'm not a bad guy here at all i'm definitely a problem solver i'm helping them to solve their problem yeah something that they desperately want to solve and that's nice i never could figure out why the bank would sell it to us for i mean back then guys this is not today's dollar 30 cents 35 cents for first five to ten cents per second and the bank wouldn't even work with us the borrowers to get a price that low at all and they would sell to us for that i could never understood that when i got involved so it was frustrating to see that kind of situation go on um when i first got the loan package before i bought my first wiring money which i didn't do before choose somebody for this piece of paper that's supposed to make money i think my wife thought i was crazy yeah luckily jags like donald's all good and we i knew the guy in newmark but just wiring money to some guy without an escrow agent or any of that kind of stuff yeah crazy talk yeah yeah that was scary that was scary so what'd you do with that first file did you go through it or did you we went through it i remember we had we had the file here because i didn't know where to send it first yeah right i didn't know what to do with anything to do with it and i didn't know an attorney i didn't know the service or thing i knew i had to send my servicing stuff to a servicer um but i think i this package i had did i didn't know the power of the pack right yeah and i looked through it and i said okay what's this are means of the mortgage i didn't didn't do the margin no no clue i didn't understand it and then i had two assignments in there plus mine so i had three assignments and i was working with my buddy and i said listen this doesn't seem like difficult let's send us the county records record them all i'll send a nice pretty cover letter we got the package back sayings recorded no problem completely out of order i call up and i says i called madison listen how do you guys do this well you have to you know label it i'd label it still wall so now i've paid for two shipping charges two finally sent a medicine i'm gonna send the cloud file to you guys you do it but as i looked through the cloud file i didn't know what i was looking at i had no clue today i'd probably go back and no you know i couldn't even think today what i was thinking at the time yeah um but i remember getting the cloud file i put it in my house for a while i reviewed it and i just didn't understand it that's listen i'm just gonna keep going forward and i knew the fact the asset was a foreclosure we were going through it it was a small house listen we don't really want the house and because i didn't want to rehab um my part of the time wanted to he does a lot of it now but we weren't sure but and of course at the tail end of the story we ended up burning the file because we were so ecstatic about what we did not knowing we should and shouldn't but when we had this file in our hands it was this what they tell everybody how powerful how great it is we didn't know right yeah yeah we just looked at numbers and said numbers worked and when these things do something for us going to the foreclosure process for us was probably annoying to the eternity because every week we're emailing hey what's newest what's stated what's that what do you know the steps we didn't understand the process like you know send that thing out the demand letter okay we're good right no we have a thoughtless penance on like what word is that in a beautiful short sale that's what you you know the first step of it getting it started but i didn't understand it was a legal step yeah yeah i remember like googling liz pendants like what's that yeah the first time you googled it wrong you're like oh yeah yeah you know no idea so getting started and then connecting with people and you know as long as far as i get into this space the more i get into it the less i feel like i know the best i understand and more i'm like whoa i mean we've had people on here to go tom telling us like angles of buying quarter of quarter payments of cory yield blow your mind yeah i think for those who are watching today it's okay to feel lost it's okay to ask questions and ask them multiple people don't ask just one right walk around the crowd and ask a question to everyone what do you do what are the angles here's my situation what do you think because everyone has a different angle different thought process yeah you know for me things started juicing up i mean 2015 i words out at paper source or noteworthy one of them and someone said listen why didn't you start up meet up locally and i did and i started doing that kind of stuff and i found because i'd gone to uh microsecond i had a meetup local and it just phased out and i said okay i'm gonna start my own and then i brought on people i brought out i think my first interview was pro title and um and i had zoom right i didn't have the full version of stuff and i got through the process of connecting and my little facebook group that was designed for new jersey east coast yeah ended up growing and people cross country hey can we tune in and listen to whoever i had on and that's how it went crazy and the people locally were asking a lot of questions um we had a lot of solved issues but we think that we had hopes and dreams right right so we thought that with everything going on we would think that we would be a good connection but we found later it wouldn't be as good okay so but a couple of people out there i learned i think just as much from everyone there that i did here so for those who are listening going out to locarias talking to other real estate people is key right because you're going to learn those kind of things um and get a sense of what you would prefer and yeah so much of this is about your preference yes so figure out what your profit zone first second cfds rentals yeah all this kind of stuff yeah so you you you still have your nine to five yep so how did you go from nine to five employed guy to a business entrepreneur mornings nights weekends between job you know between the hours cell phone and just making it work because the the idea that was all around me was if you don't you're not keeping up right because i want to be part of this group and then if i wasn't doing it i'm not part of it so it became more of a how to get to the next level okay and and be part of these people and be part of this group and if i sat down and watched tv or whatever i was doing i'm not making it so i i drove myself okay yours was more of a just kind of a keeping up with the jones is kind of yeah yeah interesting what made you go from what you're doing to full-time notes what was your driving force you know it's really interesting i i've never had a regular 9-5 before i started doing real estate we owned a couple of fitness franchises curves and that was kind of my my real job before before i started doing notes and then what when the economy changed people don't go to the gym when money's tight so that that kind of went down the tubes but for me it was just kind of a mind shift of um just thinking about about business in general and and going from you know my dad was a teacher and so that's kind of what i grew up with my mom was a stay-at-home mom and so that was kind of my my view on the world is dad goes and works mom stays home you know and it's a nine to five thing and like that's it and my parents would talk about money all the time and about how well we can't afford this and you know money's tight so that's that was kind of my my blueprint growing up and so for me it was a major shift um it was actually my wife's brother so my brother-in-law uh had he he's somebody retired right now but uh he was kind of our our business mentor where he said well you know what why don't you start by reading some of these books and so he he got us into a couple of different books to read and and that's really what kind of changed my mind and went oh i can i you know like when you're a kid when when somebody says you can do whatever you want to do and then i was like oh i really can i really can do whatever it is i want to do yeah and then i started kind of putting that together what is it that i what do i want to do then and start putting that together when you know as we progress in the group and i think um we do have a small group that we keep in touch with um i think that was 2015-16 time frame where we put that together um i remember talking to a good friend of mine and hearing about this thing called a note mba yeah um [Music] and i highly doubt robbie's listening to chad's but i'm chasing but i i wasn't a big podcast person but i was on board a lot let me just tune into it and it was like talking with my friends or with you know jack or tim whatever in about notes and just hear these guys ramble yeah about scenarios deals understanding and i said whoa this is pretty cool yeah and it tuned into it because it was the traction of what they're talking about they're talking about deals that are falling apart deals they're succeeding at um and they're real right and that's what i think attracted me the most to those people that podcast that lasted two years that was the only one around reality of it so guys i encourage you guys go back everyone listening and watching go back and check out the no nba there's some they're still available he's just a rambling in in in robbie's characteristics and subway that was really cool that podcast kind of jumps over me and says listen i gotta do more you know i gotta get involved more and if we look both look back i'm sure we wish we bought more notes back then um and whatnot was there podcast you're listening to to encourage you to keep moving that was a big one you know and and i i like to read books um but at the time there were no books no so so the podcast was was a really good one yeah and just to tune in and and see what other people are doing and and some of the guests they had on stuff as well and yeah just to kind of hear about what was going on and what other people are doing and what they're not doing and all that sort of thing yeah that was that was very very useful yeah yeah it was a great job you know those two together worked out well um you know robbie's personality else but i think for me the podcast became someone i can listen to that understand what i understand on a weekly basis i can relate to when i'm in the car riding or whatever yeah um the only book that i remember reading back then was invest in debt you know january yeah that was a generalization of what was going on and around that time i wanted to invest in that yeah uh i think you know and of course if we're all watching listening we're skipping over to poor dad we all know that buffs around everyone in their mother is ready for staff poor dad so we're going to skip over that poor dad and move to more of the driven books of notes yeah so you know a lot of books came out over the years and we i there's one this came out recently um that i don't have actually out in the store yet they actually interviewed us but i we got a couple of books and the angles these people looked at just different deal scenarios and understanding some stuff was duplication but just understanding it so between youtube videos books podcasts i was able to kind of network without networking right right so yeah and so i brought up from my bookshelf a couple of these so this is the one where i read where i because i came from a house flipping background i was always in and out in and out in and out and so um and that's still how i've run notes so far is just in and out yep so when i heard about seconds i'm like i don't get it you can't get in and out on a note no on a second so so why would you even do that and then um i got gordon's book yeah and and i read that and i'm like oh i get it now that's that's why people would be attracted to seconds it's not what i would prefer and it's not you know my my way of doing things but i get it now i understand why seconds are in the least bit attractive and so that that was a big one for me you know and actually i'm not a big yeah lukan's book was the follow-up to that yeah i'm not a big book person because i'm using on the road or i'm busy i don't i don't relax enough it's usually a book to read on vacation really yeah and then we're at a conference and we learn about self-directed iras oh god what is this there wasn't a lot of books out there about it i don't think there is really good book self-directed besides the older ones out there invest in dentists like that but learning from that i'm more of all so guys if you're a visual person youtube's great if you can read read google podcast podcast yeah there's all different methods of getting knowledge besides just getting on social media and asking questions and go to conferences i remember my first conference and i thought one of my first conferences actually paid for shorts whoever was and immersed myself saying i'm going to spend like 1500 through miranda's conference man this is not going to be worth it yeah and i i have to honestly say there's every conference i've been to i do not regret any of the dollars i've spent going for whatever reason or the time no you feel bad your family's home yeah but once i'm there it's like going to the gym and working out you feel great when you're there but you always come away with something right um you know i think you know paper source where in vegas well i flew with nathan yeah spent two hours bs in in the in the airport that i not spoken before and that that experience allowed me to learn things about how he did things and now i look back my email i think when my first emails nathan was back in 2013 i'd probably have some stuff back in my gemini days my email but that connection wasn't made but once you go to the conference you sit down and have lunch somebody or talk with them that connection has yeah right yeah there's a ton coming up soon too guys we'll be having some of the people presenting the conferences later in august uh we're gonna talk about those things in each different conference is geared for a different population of people yes can you attend imf you can but if you're a beginner you're not going to grab you're not it's not going to be as good for you it's honestly yeah yeah and certain conferences are lower level where they're geared for certain tracks or financing whatever so we're going to have a couple of these guys on um in a few weeks coming up and they do different topics as well like you say like like an imn is actually quite usually they're pretty specific um there's one coming up about non-qm so the non-qualified mortgage space uh if you're brand new to the space that's that's probably over your head and that's not a dig that's just it just is so it's it's not worth it don't bother so just to give an example me and anything where the i am in miami whatever it was yeah and i sat down with somebody you know feel confident i'm gonna talk to him um it ended up being someone i actually knew just didn't know the name of it and they're like yeah we did you know we spent 300 million last month on assets yeah what like i can't even intertwine that right that's yeah um so i said to myself hey i can learn from this person i'm not blown person-wise let me sit down talk and i talked they were cordial they're friendly and walked on right i'm not going to sit there and ask him no any questions that's just not fair to him in his time he's dealing with other people right everybody from fannie and freddie and all that good stuff so they're just not interplaying that stuff but i also sat there with somebody that i emailed before with and didn't know who they were and got that knowledge or you learned something from somebody i must sit down with uh dave um for his name but and you're like oh wow and he found out about my day job like what what do you do and then the personal connection you make so i get the fact you review going to um a conference may not fit you yet but i think getting to him is good um i know ray asked um conference recognition for total newbies um dmes will be talking dme coming up that's a great one for beginners right um they have some higher level stuff but also some stuff that's on your playing ground right introductional stuff um node expo paper source or you can get something from them it's the higher level that meant for funds that are just geared and i can tell you you can figure out who is your level or not but if you don't understand the words inside definition of the conference it's not for you it's not right right that's exactly it so what jump started you go from one asset to higher like what you know you've gotten to one asset a lot of people one or two assets are done they're out of it what helped you get up there i you know going from again it's kind of a progression like i bought those that package those three and went oh wow this is a thing uh so i started any time uh anything would come up in columbus and i i've i stayed focused in columbus for for quite a while there yeah anything that came up in columbus i was all over it and i knew the city really well yep um so i could tell you know not just zip code i could tell you the street so if it's on hudson you're okay if you're down on cleveland and not so much you know and i could tell you you know block by block uh where's the good areas and everything so that that worked really well especially at the beginning yeah um going forward uh you know it's really interesting going forward then i started working for another hedge fund for a little bit uh which i i didn't enjoy nearly as much i it wasn't nearly as fun it was a lot a lot of sales and that's just not really my thing so i went from that and and i was just kind of in confusion and just not sure what i was going to do and and what's happening next and all this sort of thing i knew i really liked notes um i didn't have any money of my own to invest in about 2014-15 okay um and it was actually i was i was getting frustrated enough with just everything that was going on that i i considered leaving notes all together yeah we've been there we've all been there yeah yeah i've got a friend um who works for royal bank of canada and as a mortgage lender so i said you know what i understand mortgages it's not very different from what i'm doing already maybe i should just do that so he lives in a town uh halfway between here in toronto so my wife and i and he he and his wife had just moved into a new place and they're like oh come and see come and see it we're like sure yeah whatever we're on our way to toronto anyway so we stopped in and and both of us were just kind of frustrated with everything and we're like do we stop do we not you know we're not really in the mood for this kind of thing whatever and i'm like no i i gotta at least talk to him yeah so we get off and and he's there and he's super friendly and everything else and he's like oh let's go for dinner i'm like sure you're paying sure yeah so we go out and uh i just kind of started unloading a little bit on my frustrations and then just it was just bothering me and i don't know what to do next and i'm not really sure kind of halfway gearing up to say you know he had offered before he's like if you want to get into into the lending space for the bank let me know and so i was kind of leaning that way and then he goes uh i kind of vented for a bit and he says okay so then what do you want to do then like what what do you want to do and i just kind of uh i couldn't answer like i was coming but i don't want but whatever his part so i was totally dumbfounded so we ended up spending the night there at his place and and off to toronto the next day and my wife who's fantastic with the kids weren't with us or anything it was perfect and she got out a piece of paper and pencil and said okay so what do you want to do i'm like okay if i was going to do this if i'm going to keep going in notes this is what i do and i started just detailing it i said well i would start by teaching people because i don't think anybody's going to give me money until they understand the business and started going into that and because i knew it well enough yeah started teaching people and i would offer a class and this is how i do it and and that you know i'm not interested in mentoring but i would do it this way in that way and just like for the next four hours i just kind of detailed and said so i would do it this way and that way and this way and that way once i get people to trust me enough to give me money then i would go and do this and just kind of point by point and said this so this is what i would do and it's really a shame that we didn't hold on to that piece of paper because that's very extremely close to what i'm doing right now so that's it's so it was very much a planned set of of ideas of what we're going to do next my first jv partner because i didn't have a lot of money myself came from my meetup group yeah besides my friends jackson first person outside my closeness came from meetup group they didn't know that my first jv right i think it made it to a point that i'd done a few deals but i wasn't perfect and their answer was i just want to learn it and the mentality going into it was i don't care if i lose money here i want to learn it in just like college i spend money to learn i want to learn yeah didn't go well i learned a whole lot started hitting yeah we're still friends which is cool um but his because he had a lot of knowledge about lost older gentlemen um kevin just awesome knowledgeable guy and i and when i found becoming a jb partner with this guy those who you like right those who you work well with together you get closer to and you start talking more and you spend time with them more but i would go to these arenas and so that and share my i'm no longer a landlord i'm a lean lord kind of and people are attracted to and you'll find people wanting to learn more about it based on that knowledge um i think for me that made a lot of sense uh it was same thing i i put together actually three different meetup groups one in montreal one in ottawa one in toronto and i would just kind of do the tour and i would i would kind of give my spiel about so this is what notes are and by the end i usually actually had somebody asking me okay so what do you want from us then well actually that's my next i can either teach you how to do it or you can give me your money and i'll do it for you yeah and i was shocked at how many people took option two yeah i just i for myself i've always been a do-it-yourself kind of guy so i always figured that's how people were going to go but so i was floored when people said well no you never ask me what people want because of what you would want forward that way too like yeah why would a borrower do that doesn't don't talk about why it doesn't matter yeah you know you know and surprises come along the way you know we look back and you forget about assets you've had you have all these stories what i think is different from being in a fun level is you have the individual stories of people i remember getting a phone call with borrowers like you do and having that talk and like making it real like and this person like i felt bad i could not do anything with the loan there was nothing i could do she did couldn't afford the house anymore that hurt and i was like listen this has been a burden to you there's nothing i can do to make this work for you and she's thanks for being honest yeah and that personal situation is interesting i don't encourage everyone to talk to the borrowers but you know as you get through it you can you can definitely reach out to talk to them because you want to work what you can and can't say yeah um it's awesome so i think moving forward those who are still listening on stuff make sure you hit the check the youtube channel and hit that bell and also i got a message from my trade desk make sure you hit that bell notification bell and whatever on youtube um we do an event on facebook group every week um the next couple weeks are gonna be every material next week um i don't know if i'm gonna describe what we're doing next week um i would just encourage everyone if you can reset your alarm clocks bells whatever you got um i guess we can talk about we're gonna talk about debt licenses yeah for note collectors nationwide so what does that mean certain states require you to have a license to own a note and collect debt on it some states don't some coins require a bond we're going to have someone on that is a specialist in this space so make sure you tune in next week it's going to be a lot of material a lot of information we are not going to go deal specific we're going to talk generalities um but it's going to be a treat yeah it's very interesting what do you see in six months ah [Laughter] i still think we're we're headed to um a whole bunch of foreclosures i know the government is trying desperately to avoid that uh and i get it i understand why that's a lot of voters uh but it's it's unavoidable and you know whether that's you know october 3rd or whether that's december 3rd or january 3rd it doesn't matter it's coming um and it's it's a hard situation and it is not easy and there's got a lot a lot of people that are going to be in a lot of trouble which is why we're here and and that's as entrepreneurs that's what we do is we help solve problems and so as much as i'm not looking forward to the pain and hurt that a lot of people are going to go through i i know that i can be part of the solution so i'm looking forward to that part of that know the fact that um as i'm sure you guys don't know my wife's medical she's had a rampant case covet student back up so just be knowledgeable that this may come back where september october and the government can't solve this forever um i'd be very curious to see what happens my guess is where once the government stops supporting the situation by money-wise and bound people out right now about six months later is when things are gonna go haywire yeah because banks won't be a little money out on delinquent debt right there's a whole talk if you don't know about i'm sure we have a video or whatever we can always bring back up that banks sell assets because they can't have defaulted assets on their books because they can't loan out more money they can only have a certain amount of debt um so you have to let it out and then they what they do they write off on their books like it's called charge off um it's accounting stuff but that when that happens that's why i think lappo can't answer what's happened six months it's once that happened that trigger happened to let's go i think that's when things are gonna transpire yeah yeah we're gonna see it what does it look like yeah what kind of level are we looking at that's hard to to yeah gauge um i don't think it's gonna be a 2008 kind of uh um but you know like i say there's going to be unfortunately millions of people that are going to be in big trouble yeah um and a lot of maybe landlords too yeah that the tenants aren't paying they can't pay um we're gonna see this will be very interesting so guys out there i hope this uh i'm i this is apologize of like in your face kind of open talk kind of conference talk here that people share the reality what we are um we're not people with thousands of loans in our belt but we've dealt with a lot of assets and building around people that the collection of all of us will make us better stronger people than anything else so yeah it's been a pleasure guys it's been fun um but i encourage everyone make sure i'll uh i'll set the event up probably pretty soon on the facebook group um east coast group and make sure you tune in i'll probably send email out if you have questions about that webinar please send over again we're not gonna answer every question out there we're going to let them talk uh you're welcome amy guys i appreciate you guys tuning in nathan i appreciate you sharing with everyone and sharing with me your story it's been an awesome time man it's everybody's got a journey get on and ride it it's a lot of fun yeah yeah well guys if you get any questions feel free to reach out to nathan reach out to myself check out the youtube channel facebook group and our web our websites so i appreciate it enjoy and uh take care.