Zero Money Down: Buy Notes Using This Strategy | Real Estate Notes Show

Our financing can be an incredible powerful tool when you understand how it works from both sides of the deal. In today's show, we're joined by Dawn, known in the industry as the note Queen. She brings decades of experience in creating and buying notes through multiple market cycles. In this episode, Dawn breaks down the dance between the property and paper. Why? Sometimes the assets in the note, sometimes in the property, and how the smartest investors know how to move between the two. If you want to create flexible deals, protect your downside and see real estate through a completely different lens.

This is a conversation you want to hear. Welcome back to another real estate note show. I'm your host, Dave puts some JKP holdings alongside me. As always, Mr. Nathan Turner. Hey, how are you? Good, man. The winter is going on. Events are happening. Things just doing what we got to do. It's amazing to just explore what's going on and figure out what's happening. And I think for me, networking is huge. Collaboration is huge. But we've been sucked into different worlds over the winter time. This is a time to kind of dial in your systems and make sure you have the fine tuning basics to do it. But as always, we want to make sure that we prep up that networking is a huge thing in collaborating.

That's how we meet all our guests. We talk to our interest, our experience, all kinds of people we know. What's your thoughts on that? What's your feelings on that? Nathan? Yeah, somebody said to me the other day something about we're going into conference season. I'm like, yeah, that sounds right. But it's true. And that's I mean, so my very first conference I went to was noteworthy back in 2009 in New Orleans that year. And I was shocked to see so many people in this business that were doing the thing that I just barely learned about. And that was my introduction. And then I'm still in contact with a number of those people that I met more than 15 years ago now.

So it's really, really, really, that's all what it's all about. And of course, I know I sound biased because I have my own conference, but that's why I have the conference. Because I believe in them so strongly. And they're so important. Well said. Well said. For those who don't know, Nathan has this conference in May, beginning of May, the DME down in Nashville. Please tune in and check that out. There was just a conference we had recently with the Note Casual Expo. Guys, that was a free conference. If you missed it, please tune back in. Get the recordings. It's been awesome. There's a lot of people in this space, Nathan.

And being both of us, for those who don't know us, we've been Note Buyers for 15 plus years and we've been creating notes as well. We're just small niche. I think people who are creating notes don't know us. Note Buyers would love to meet you. So again, if you're first time tuning in and you're creating notes, I'll repeat it for everyone else. Please reach out. Just talk to us. Yeah, we're trying to remedy that. We're trying to get these Note Creators to get to know us a little bit better. We can do a lot of business. So let's get together. Understand notes and ask us questions because it's not the same thing, right? No, it's a different kind of investing.

And I think that's a super good point because it's just because you're in real estate does not mean you're in notes. And just because you're in notes does not necessarily mean you're in real estate. Ideally, our best case scenario is never own the house. So that's really what we're all about. So, of course, it's real estate related. But ideally, we never actually want to own any of these houses. Yes, absolutely. And I saw we saw deals recently where the Korean notes at 5%, 6.5. And I've said this on the show before. Yeah, guys, you're killing your exits. You can't Ipothicate it. You can't sell it very easily without taking a huge discount.

And listen, I've said it before. I don't care how much equity. If the property sells at auction, I don't get it. Or if the homeowner sells it, the equity is gone. So understand. But one thing I think people don't realize is going back to the basics. And I think we're talking about this and the special guests we're having on today. And I brought that out like, guys, there's some basics that people don't understand from both sides. Yes, it's huge. You know, I got this book coming out. You got all stuff going on. And we have I have an AI bot, Dave out there as questions. I have a whole website that will give you the reds and greens, blues.

But there is some basics that people don't understand. Yeah, I know. When I first came over, I was so I was coming from real estate. I was so centered on getting to the house. And then further I went along. I'm like, why am I trying to do that? And so now it's to the case where I don't actually want the house. But in that note creation, same thing when I first started, the notes that I was creating were terrible compared to what I know now. They're awful. And they were not great notes. And I didn't know what I didn't know. But as you get to know these things, then I was able to both start creating good ones that I was able to resell.

And then I was also be able to just in the notes that I was buying. We've talked about this several times, certainly privately, where what is it we're looking for? And we have a list. But well, it kind of depends on this. And it kind of depends on that. So I know we're hard to pin down. Yeah. But there are some basic things where this is a deal breaker. This would make it more valuable. Those kinds of things certainly exist. But then there's always those common factors. So if you are creating that stuff, I have the basics down here. If you go to Jkp holdings dot com slash note validation, you're going to get some of the basics and really cool stuff that me and Nathan's talked about this over the years or Jkp holdings dot com slash AI Dave, AI dash Dave and go from there.

But before we get that craziness, right, there are some basics in here. And that's why we want to bring our special guest. Dawn, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. You've been a staple in this business for I don't know how long you give us a little bit of a background. How did you get introduced to notes for those who don't know you? And still, I don't know how you do it. And then still turning 29 this year. I don't believe it's the zoom filters are very common. Yeah. Yeah. Just add about let me see how many I'm not going to tell you how many. Yeah. Thirty three years. You got to add to that.

God bless. Like shoot, you know, I'm old enough to I don't yet, but I'm old enough to have a gaggle of grandkids. But, you know, these days the kids, they're a little slower to get to it. And in a lot of ways, I think. Wow. Shoot. Yeah. I took the normal way how people usually get into notes. I graduated as a nurse. Yeah. Pre-requisite. Of course. Yeah. My dad, my grandfather was a doctor. My dad was a doctor. My mom was a nurse. My mom and dad met in the OR. She was his favorite OR nurse. Okay. He was a very gifted physician anyway. And so I get to college and I'm like, well, I'm good at math and I could just in science and I liked all of it and it's in the DNA.

So if I want to graduate in about four years, I got to start something and just finish it. And so I just went with nursing and I'm really glad I did because I loved the career. It was good to me, but also I was a mom. So you're always doing nursing. Yeah, I was pregnant and nursing for three and a half years solid, but then all the little cuts and scrapes and bruises and traumas that happened with young kids. But anyway, somewhere I worked in the ER, the ICU after BYU and then I was taking these, I go, you know what? I think I should be smart enough to figure out how not to trade my hours for dollars.

I just got the idea that you should be able to figure this out. So I would go to all the different weekend wire things like trading options, wholesaling real estate. Stock market this, tax lien that. I mean, and then I got on the note business and I was just like, somehow, I don't know what happened, but I thought I was just got enamored with it. And then when I could use the financial calculator, it was just like, I felt so powerful. I remember it was like when I was in third grade and my third grade teacher said he taught us all about all the planets in the solar system. And I sat back in my chair and said, now I know everything.

I felt like, wow, I had just been mind blown. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Look at what I know now. So anyway, it was just like that. And I'm just a little geeky. And one thing led to that I was a slow starter. Let's just be clear about that. I was still doing my nursing job, raising kids, lots of kids, I have four kids. They're all in their early 30s now. But I would do these things. And then, well, noteworthy. That's interesting. I would go to all the noteworthy things. It's kind of a throwback because the first ownership with John Richards and them, it was a completely different organization back in the day.

And Clint Henman was running their newsletter. You remember? Did you ever meet Clint? I heard of him. I've not met him. I think I met him once. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so that's kind of the era that I was just sort of coming out. But anyway, so I just figured, well, I took seven years. I took seven years of just keeping my thing going. And it took that long for me being around the conversation for it to become second nature. So when people, when they come on my little calls and stuff, they go, we're kind of intimidated because there's a lot of smart people that are using a lot of words on your show.

And I'm like, well, just speak up because I get it. Yes. But unless somebody speaks up, it's just like when I was in the ER, we had our own little language and we knew what we knew. But nobody else, that was ER speak, right? We all have industry jargon. We get it. And then we go, oh, not everybody knows what this is. You know? But anyway, I took a long time. I always say I was on the short bus, you know, getting to it. And I didn't make the leap from W2 to entrepreneur look graceful. Let's just put it that way. But I just have a lot of passion and a lot of heart and sometimes not a lot of brain.

So I had this really, the thing that made me jump from my nursing job in 2004 was if all now they're in middle school, four kids in middle school. Right. And I was kind of the main breadwinner at the time. And so I had a very lucid dream. And I know this is a weird thing to talk about anywhere, but especially on a show about finance and stuff. But swear to God, Jesus, Jesus made me do it. He pushed me over the cliff. And just as I was going in my cage over the cliff, I just decided to relax and trust it. And this cage that I was in just fell through my body and I was floating in the air. And so I just took that as my divine manifesto.

And the next day I quit my job. Whoa. Yeah. So I don't really recommend people do that at home, but some of us are just, well, I got the note queen thing. So some of us are drama queens. It has to really be this big epic reason. And I don't know, looking back, I go, I could have easily, not me. I know I had to go through this process because it made me become a whole different person. It wasn't just a financial switcheroo. It was like, it made me totally pull out resources I didn't have. And I don't regret it, but also I could have saved myself maybe. Just taking the money I already had. And instead of throwing, blowing a couple hundred thousand, I'm learning how to be a note broker, just freaking start investing in notes.

Yeah. That's what I came to anyway. And like I said, I don't regret the journey and everything that I've learned on the way. So anyway, I quit that job and said, well, oh, so I'm really into the note business, but I don't even know anything about real estate. So then I go, well, I better get my real estate license. So I got my real estate license and hung it with a group down in SoCal where I used to live. And so I did a little bit of that, but I would always come back to the notes. And they were, besides being general real estate company, they were also doing investing, just buy low, fix, sell high.

And during those years, you could be an absolute dunce and make hundreds of thousands of dollars because the market was just going brutal. And so cold call, learn how to cold call. Okay. And then so I would talk to seller after seller, honey, are you sure? You've got all these properties you don't want to manage anymore. And they would say, we don't want your cash, honey. It doesn't matter how much it is because here's the thing. We need income for retirement and we don't want to pay capital gains. Also, we want to leave a great inheritance for our children. And I heard this over and over and over.

And all of a sudden, one day I go, this is where the note business, this is where notes come from. It seems so obvious. Everything was this new little discovery. There was no note queen university that I went to. It was just like stumbling through life and figuring out how it worked. And so then at the meetings, when everyone would get together, let's talk about the deals. And so everyone would talk about the deals and they said, well, they rejected this offer. And I said, oh, why don't we ask them if they want to carry a note? They can only accept seller financing. And so anyway, after this over and over and over, there's a gig, I am in the office.

And one day, he just said, I'm coming down the ramp to join the meeting for the day. And he's like, oh, there's that note queen. Let's talk about notes. That was a nickname and a joke. So I was known in the office as the note queen because they're all talking about just cash buying, cash selling, and I'm always financing in terms and all this stuff. So then when they obviously, like a lot of people went under in 2007, I think, by 2007, yeah, it was going downhill. So I just went out on my own as my own real estate broker. And I said, well, what the heck? I might as well just hit as a brand and see what happens.

Yeah. And all the respectable people in the industry were like, no, you can't do that. No one's going to take you seriously. And you know what? Nobody should. Nope. No, like you said at the beginning, like a lot of heart, not a lot of smarts. That's the perfect recipe for an entrepreneur. So here you go. Yeah. Just get after it. Yeah. That's awesome. You're right. The best thing, the way to learn notes is actually doing it. Like it's not just play around. It's just do it. And we always talk about the show. Listen, you may lose all your money, get experience just like college. How is it the same thing? Right? Like you lose all your money and all you have is experience.

Oh, it notes you may lose a deal, but still make a little bit of money. Now you have more money or got your principal back. Win win. So I agree with you. We have two people kind of floating around and not enough people just trying it. If you want to limp in, there's ways of limping in. You want to go ahead first. There's ways doing that. But just by touching and playing and and brokering, you're really doing yourself a disservice and you not learn the business. No, I don't know if you know this name, but you should, Nathan, because I don't know how Note Worthy 2009 was over there because that was my debut as a speaker in I think November.

Oh yeah. Okay. It's San Diego, Note Worthy. Oh, okay. Out before John died, I think too. Yeah, that was. That was it was Jack was running it when I was there in 2009. 2009. Are you sure you're old enough to say that? Okay. But no, but I'm just weird weirded out because it was in San Diego and that was like my first ever public speaking thing. I think Clint maybe got me that because we really hit it off at the conferences. He's a great guy. But anyway, I just remember that. But anyway, so a guy named Henry Dvorkin from Wichita Falls, Texas, you've ever met him? I have. I never met him, but I know he's a legend.

Okay. It's just like him and there was just a handful of them. And even that guy who wrote owner will finance, he was a Bill Broadbent. I mean, those were the guys, they were the veterans salt of the earth guys when I was coming into the industry. And so I was very heavily influenced by the quality and the legacy that they left. And just the good old boy and just solid sharing. They're not trying to make a million bucks off you. It's just like a club. Like you were in this club that you got to be really special. Right? And just so that really formed my values. And I wanted to carry that forward as much as I could as well.

But anyway, he's the one that said, because all the times of talking, learning about notes and all these conferences, guess what? And all that time and all those freaking dollars I spent that I didn't need to spend, but I did because you have to spend it to realize that you don't need to spend it. Yeah. Anyway, he said, Don, don't broker notes. Just skip that. If you want to broker notes down there, you buy notes, you keep a piece of it. Right? Even if you don't have any money, you act like the investor. Yes. Don't think like a quick chunk change type of person. And so I listened because I was trying to do it the way I thought it was supposed to be done.

And then I got to a point where I'm on my knees because the bank account's pretty darn low. Because I've been spending money and not bringing in and raising these kids and keeping the mortgage going. You know, so it started like it was getting real. So basically, okay, you need me to go back to nursing. What do you need? I'm yours. You tell me what you want me to do. Keep going a little longer. I'm like, you don't do math. You see the checkbook lately. It's not penciling. But at that point, I said, well, that's on God then because I'm willing to do whatever. So the significant shift I think was there was that I quit blaming myself.

I quit being ashamed. I quit beating myself up. Why is it taking you so long? Why haven't you figured out how to be a millionaire by now? So I just had a lot of negative self-talk that was just really hamstring and things. So when I just relaxed, I noticed what was automatically already coming in front of me. What was automatically coming based on all the hamster wheeling I'd been doing. And it was just note deals and people who wanted to invest. And I'm like, duh, it's right here. So then the funny thing is after all that, I never learned the mechanics of actually how do you buy a note. It's so freaking simple, but in all the money I spent, I never learned that.

So I'm on the phone with Henry. Henry, I'm going to do what you said. And I'm going to actually buy my first note here. And I was scared to death. And he walked me through. I lost his heart. He walked me through the whole thing. And then I was off to the races because once I got that pattern, just my thought came just a little more passive income this month than I had last month. Yes. Just a little more passive income this month. And so I did that and I looked back in 18 months and I had with none of my own money, I had zero money left to do anything. Right? I had my California PITI covered on a passive basis.

Wow. I just like curled up. You know? And so that changed my life because then I had a base salary. And knowing what I knew then, I could have gone, oh, I didn't need to do the dramatic thing if I would have taken the money I already had. I just did that before I had this like, oh, Jesus told me to do this. And it was just like, duh, everything's like X caliber. You know? And you brought up a good point. We've done a show on the topic of brokering and there's right ways and wrong ways of doing it. And I agree. I think most people who are brokering are doing for one reason. They don't have money.

But I think that we talked before is they do it the wrong way. They treat it like I'm just passing along a deal to you. And not learning the deal. It's a great opportunity even to work with your buyers. Say, hey, listen, I found a great deal instead of just passing along. Build that relationship with your buyers and say, hey, I got this deal. I don't have enough money for it, but here's the information I got about it. So and then when you go to buy it, can you just give me a call? Let me know how it went and build a relationship. And you're going to get value out of that relationship. And you're going to learn to be a better broker if you want a broker because there's some deals where you run out of money and you got to find a way to get that deal done to make your seller happy.

And then were you so it sounds like you were instead of just brokering, you were kind of working yourself into the deal. So were you kind of doing a form of partial along with your investor? How did that work? Yeah. Well, here's the way it's just the payment. So I get under contract at a higher yield than my investor needed. Right. And it started with family, friends, and then just went out from there. And I used to have to pay a lot more for my money. I don't have to pay that much now. But yeah. Yeah. So basically I would put my investor on the assignment, the deed of trust, the mortgage, whatever.

So they were secure. My most important thing was first they're going to be secure. And because of the nature of the relationships I have, I go all I did is keep a servicing spread. Okay. And so I wasn't legally protected that no one has ever tried to take my piece of it. They could. They could say, you know what, I'm going to change servicers. And this was back in the day starting before there was all the rules. Right. Yeah. So it wasn't a big thing. They would come into my account. I'd keep my little piece and I'd send it to my investor. That's awesome. All cool. And actually I kind of still do that.

I mean, unless I've put a significant amount of my own money, I'll just say, you know what, here's how the numbers work. And if you agree, and if it's, I won't service in general on consumer loans anymore because it's just too risky to do so. But if there's little personal deals, it's, but anyway, I still make sure that my people are protected because what if I get hit by a Mack truck? I'm a small operator. I'm a boutique operator. Right. And yeah, sort of family business. But so, and so then also to protect them because people trust me. They just, and I like, okay, I got to be good for this. So then I also keep key man life on me.

So if I die prematurely, there's a big payout to pay off everybody. So my family can pay off any loans that go bad. Everyone's made whole and my family doesn't have to stress about like investors. Where's my money? Where's my money? You know, so, so there, that's how I've compensated for the risk of being a small, a small operator. But, but yeah, if any of my people, if they wanted to, they could just say, meh, you know, because I, it has, I haven't needed, I haven't needed to go, oh, someone's going to screw me out of my piece. I haven't needed that. You mentioned before, you mentioned before about, you know, when you first got into this space and that, yeah, that awesome, right? The deal comes through and it doesn't work out, but sometimes the property is not the angle, right? Sometimes it's that term that you really want to get to.

You mentioned before, can you explain a little bit more about your mindset with this? I think we said before the show started like this dance between the property and the note, you explain a little bit more about how you think about that for those who may be listening and going, oh my good, I never thought about that way. Yeah, the dance between property and paper. So I started to over time see it, you know, first it was property and like private loans and then, oh yeah, the note businesses over here. Anyway, I started to get closer and closer and now I just go, they're just two sides of the same coin.

And you need to be like an Aikido master or whatever, like whatever comes to the door, you just move with it and you make a profit. Oh, it came this way. Oh, you move it this way. So it doesn't matter. What we need to do is like, we got cash, we got real estate, we got notes. Yeah, how to take cash and get into real estate. And if they understand seller financing, they can go from real estate to a note. Yeah. Yes. But they don't know how to do this piece from the cash. So we make the circle go all the way around. Yes, grasshopper. We need to go all smooth, smooth or take your cash by a note. And if it goes into a property, great.

You go back to cash back into a note, then back to cash again. And then it's just about making it a whole complete system. It's realizing that this brings up something that you said in your introduction. Do you mind if I just kind of remember what you said? Go for it. Because like you said, oh, these guys, I don't know who the people are. Yep. Oh, they're writing this 5% and 6% paper and they don't know blah, blah, blah. And that's taking it like, give it an aspirin or like everything's a hammer. So you got a hammer, so everything's a nail. But people have to realize in the context of this is somebody's house that they bought for $100, now it's worth $400.

And for someone to afford the $400, they take less. The interest rate that makes sense in the marketplace, but that's how they're capturing all that appreciation. So if you want to say, there's nothing that's actually wrong about it. If people go in with their eyes wide open, that's my objection is people not understanding. But really, is someone getting hurt buying a property at $100, getting paid all those years for it, they own it free and clear. They sell it for $400 and they take 5%. Are they really doing that bad? At the end of the day, they're going to end up with $800 to a million dollars total payable term of that loan.

Did they really do that bad? That turned from one, if you take the actual cash, that's only $100,000. And it turns into over 20 years, 30 years, that turns into $8,000. That's all right. Absolutely. They created a home ownership for somebody who otherwise wouldn't get it. How cool is that? There's a value to that. It's just that here's the thing is people don't, they just don't go in with eyes wide open. This is where I came up with this whole consulting thing that I've been doing is because people will call with their notes and they're just so shocked and offended. And I'm like, this one guy, I almost wanted to cry with him because he needed the money so bad, but there was such strategic errors.

And he's like, I asked my realtor if there was anyone that could help us with this. And they said, no. Just put some crap together. Maybe he didn't got paid, but guess what? That agent is lucky he didn't get sued. That's pure negligence. Even the ones that are doing it by the book, attorneys, title companies, blah, blah, blah. We know how owner financing goes here. Not even realtor that may be close five to 10 owner finance deals, they get paid a commission. Almost never, almost never will they tell their client, oh, by the way, you're trading your property for this. No. And did you know that there's a market for that? Nope.

Right. No one even says that. Yeah. Let alone, let alone, you know, like, by the way, I want to see the, you know, what the secondary market thinks about how you're thinking, just so you know, you're going in with eyes wide open. Give you exits. Even a 0% loan, it could be right for that person in that situation. Absolutely. Just go in, eyes wide open if you do the blah, you know, so then, yeah, people finding out through letters and postcards after they've closed that there's a market for notes is a complete failure of the fiduciaries. Yeah. Absolutely. And I don't know where the angle is. It's really educating these agents, right? And we've talked about that privately and Nathan and I have taken many consulting calls with these people after they create the note going, help.

And the answer is there is no help. Like I can't, I can't redo it. The way that you've structured this, I'm so sorry. Like I can't do that. And I don't know that anybody else can. And the problem is they say, well, can we redo it? It's like, no, why not? The borrower would have to agree to it. Why would the borrower say, you know what? No problem. I'll see an extra $500 a month for the next 20 years. They're not going to say that. And I think that misconnection that we've talked about the show many times is we get these calls. I got three this morning of saying, help. And the answer is, listen, next time, give us a call before you do this.

And like you said, there isn't many people out there who will talk about that. Let's talk about how to do it. Let's talk about, hey, you can do this. They don't talk about, hey, if you want to exit or if you want any kind of here's where. And then if it defaults, is your paper correct to be able to go to legal to protect your asset? Because I've seen too many real estate transactional attorneys create documents that are one page notes that you can't foreclose on because they're transactional attorneys. They're not credit attorneys. They're not in a situation where they've done a foreclosure. So they create bad paper.

And it's so frustrating to us because guess what? We could have helped you out. We could have apothecated because sold. We could have gave you options. But we're now in a position we can't. And it's so frustrating to us. Yeah. No, you're no. It's really not about that, David. It's just that you're a mean and greedy guy. And just, you know, just like just like why gasoline, you know, why food eggs are too expensive. Because the stores are really no, it's not because of monetary policy. No, not that, you know, anyway. Yeah, the farmers, the greedy ones on that one. You know what? There is a monumental shift happening.

And I thought I would never see it actually, because I thought in my young no queen brain that it's so logical that agents would be one of my best target markets. Right. But I have much, much, much brain damage from those over the years. So I'm a little jaded. Yes. But did you know that I mean, have you got the memo on this? The MLS is now endorsing like solar finance. These does more, you know. Yep. You heard of that? Yep, I did. Yeah. Now we got to get in front of those guys. Okay, this is the no, they've already they've been working behind the scenes and they just ran, they're just shotgunned, you know, everyone else.

Yeah. Shit. Now, okay, first time I got a local gal here that she's so smart and we're going to be teaming up here. But all these years, she's like, I really think you're smart, Don, but like, you know, nobody thinks about it and everyone's like, now that the MLS is sending out a promotional text about a webinar coming up, the cats out of the freaking bag. And so we're going to see, I predict that like, and the people who get on this fast in their local markets are going to clean freaking up because now what we've broken is this agent mindset of like, kind of follow the rules and then the attorney said, no, my broker said, no, and we can't do these things.

Now we've got an MLS promoting a thing. Okay, well, let's go. Yeah. As long as they do things correctly, we've I'm sure you have we've seen papers and notes that are just straight up cancer for some news. No start date, PITI fixed, no maturity date, no term, no, if it's late, what happens like up if it's late, no, no late fees. The person never has to pay. There's so many things that they get wrong because they ask their agent on how to create the note and they ask Chachi BT and they just don't get the basic concepts of protecting themselves. And they typically do what we talk about on the show many times.

They do what's best for the borrower. That's what's good for them. And you have to balance that thing and say what's good for the bar and good for me. They leverage to say, hey, I'm going to do everything to make sure that borrower has a house because I want to sell the house. And I think they lose out on the fact that this has to work for you because the only reason the borrows go into you is they could go to a bank for whatever reason they don't want to. They don't need to whatever that came to you and turn to seller financing, then leverage you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's oh, man, there's so much to impact here.

It's not just go to a million different town is all at once. But the thing is that it's got to all be compliant. And so I'm going to find like, for instance, I'm lucky enough that Sadhana and the Madison management's in Reno. Yes. I can drive up. Call Kevin up. Yeah. Kevin and Sadhana. I can drive up for lunch in 45 minutes. We can. I miss them here in Jersey. I miss them. I was like, no. But there's just so much rich. It's like, OK, let's get all the licensed people and just put it together watertight from the people. So here's the thing. I just hope anyone listening, especially agents, tile companies, whatever.

It's just like, guess what? We are in the time. We have formally entered a time in which our addiction to Wall Street financing is falling apart. And it's high time it did. It's high time it did. But we need to create non Wall Street retirement solutions, non bank housing. Those two collide. The stance between property and paper. Guess what? Your retirement is going to be better. You're going to make more. You're going to save on taxes. This person, a home, they're raising a family. It stabilizes their win win win. And so you're going to have more money in your pocket. At the same time, you're inadvertently going to be an angel investor by accident.

You are going to angel investor. So like I'm I've got a blueprint coming out. It's called the A.I. real estate blueprint. Cool. Where A.I. stands for angel investor. That's awesome. Awesome. We are in the age of A.I. Angel investor, decentralized, financed, local parallel economies. Yes, you can use the bank if you want or need to, I guess. But you don't have to. That's my vision because then, hey, you know what? I carried a loan for him, so I want him to do well. So I'm going to shop at the place that he works so he can keep getting his salary, so he can keep paying me. And that guy wants me to do well because he carried paper for me.

So he's going to give me this so I can keep paying him so he can pay him. So, you know, so it's not this sort of abstract tree hugger thing. It's like, no, actually, we're really invested in people doing well. And the money stays in the community and does not go out to Wall Street. And they're siphoned. They're like parasites. They'll siphon off everything. It's fine. You know, so I don't know. There's my little soapbox. I love it. Hyper. It's like farmers market type of. Yeah. Yeah. It's that mentality for sure. Yeah. I love that. That's awesome. Yeah. So it's it's it's we've talked about a lot of stuff here, right? And I think that people need to hear this over and over and over and over again.

And because I agree with you, things are shifting. Where do you think most note buyers who get started, besides just not diving in, where in your experience have they gotten the most lost? Or they just they trip up and that they can get over that trip up by doing what? Well, there's just no substitute where you have to actually know the business. So you do have to get some education. But guess what? It's practically free. If you got more time than money, you can you can get it, you know, especially in the age of AI. Information is just a commodity. So you can learn a lot of things, but it's the implementing it.

And with the wisdom of given your overall situation, everyone's coming from a different place. I've had people that want to get involved and from where they are, they're just one teeny mind click away from going, I get it. And then there's people that, you know, they're like nurses and some don't know damn thing about anything. No, you know, no, it's just like, someone who who's, you know, doesn't have any experience at all in real estate or in finance or, you know, so everyone's coming a different thing, but you do have to learn. So but and then you need the wisdom to go, here's the here's the knowledge.

How do I use it in a right way? That's for me. And but yeah, I don't know. It's the implement. It's like in this AI, there's almost this this this divergence happening where where the people that are most real, like all of us, Yahoo's here on this thing, you know, like this is not AI generated stuff. And if it were, it would be such a poor, you know, it's like, oh, that's not fancy. But that's the thing that people are going to crave because now in this world, we don't know what's real anymore. Well said. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, and yeah, so I don't know. It's just the connecting and you but you know what you're talking about.

You got to know what you're talking about. But then also you got to like, like we said in the beginning, it's like, shoot and then aim. You know, it's like, and then adjust your aim. Yeah, just, you know, things in motion stay in motion. Yes. Stay in her. Yeah, you got to keep stumbling and don't feel dumb. Like the biggest thing is like, quit yourself up wherever you're at. For whatever the reason, quit beating yourself up. Let the little monkey mind get quiet and just go, you know what? You have done the best that you could. How many times, you know, we've had this before where a brand new investor buys a first deal and they go, hey, I came across scenario and go, I've never been through that scenario before.

Let's learn together. How is that possible? You've been doing for so long and you never went through it because every deal is different and you learn every single deal that just because you're brand new doesn't mean that you don't learn something that I didn't know before. Like you can learn something, go, you know, I've been through many times when people say, I don't know the answer to that. What do you mean you don't know the answer that because I've never been through that scenario. By doing the business is how you learn having some. Amazing. Yeah. And then even when I do know the answer, the typically it's like, well, this has been my experience and, you know, it can be over here, it can be over there, but so far this is what I've seen and it's not always the case and it can sometimes go this way and it's sometimes go that way.

And that's, I think one of the exciting things about the business. That's what keeps it interesting. But just this is what I know so far. What else can we learn together? Yeah. What do you got? Yeah, I think there's that humility and if somebody has all the answers all the time, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, you know what? Yeah, no, no, there's no excuse. There's no substitute for time in the business taught me more than all the courses and all the confidence put together just time in the business, time in the business. So yeah, this is definitely the school of hard knocks. Like just that's the best way of learning this business because we can talk about it forever, but it's one of those things you really have to have the experience to go behind it.

And part of the experience is actually the pain of wiring money to somebody and trusting that it goes on. Like the first time you're in this space and you wire money to some seller, they'll send you a box of paper is weird to think about. And then you do and go, okay, that's normal. And I'm wiring hundreds of thousand dollars to people that I met over email and go, this doesn't make sense. And that fear, that worry, that understanding, a boarding a note with a servicer and getting the payment coming in is all new world. And part of it is, is asking other people networking with other people in the space and saying, hey, listen, is this true or not true? But then, like you said, take the action because if you keep asking me questions without taking action, you're spinning your wheels.

And what, who am I helping? I'm just enabling your behavior. Let's help you get to the cross the finish line and get your deal. And then let's high five and talk about the next deal. So well said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to look at any losses is like you just paid for another. I just go, oh, another seminar. Yep. Yeah. I still get them. I still get them every now and then. Absolutely. Like, dang it. You know, it's just part of it. It's like, oh, well, that I learned so much because we learned so much when we lose money, you know, or we missed out on our opportunity by one little thing we failed to do.

Yeah. Well, I just do this one thing different next time that'll solve that problem. We've never had before. We've been doing this five, 10, 15 years and I never had that problem. Now it's a problem. So next time now I know how to do it better. Yeah. There's nothing perfect. This business is nothing. There's nothing. There's no black and white of this exactly how to do all business. It's always adjusting. So well, Nathan, I'll let you, we'll see if you can find a way to ask our final last questions. We went over a little bit already. Yeah, no kidding. So we're always curious. All of our guests we have on like, nobody's a dummy, but it's awesome to have all the experience, all of the, you know, just everything that you bring to the table and everything that you've already gone through.

So given all of that, all the stuff that you've done so far, what's been working, what's not working, what you're seeing going on today, what's your crystal ball? What do you got for the next, you know, 12, 24 months? Where do you see the market going? What's happening with notes? What's your prediction? You know, it's kind of like I see two timelines. Okay. So I'm going to talk about the most normalish timeline that sounds the most sane. Well, we all know, no queen does not have to be sane. If she calls herself this, then you stay, you know, entertainment purposes only. But hey, so I want, okay, in an inflationary environment that I think we'll have hyperinflation, very likely.

So my positioning is hard assets. Okay. And the cashflow to protect it so you don't become a forced seller. So like I said, just in cashflow expo, it's like, number one, like this house that I'm in right now, it did not double in value because I worked harder. The silver I bought at $25 didn't go to, well, now it's 75 today, or it was 100, right? It didn't because I worked smarter. The Bitcoin I bought at 3000 didn't go up to, now it's way down to 70, but you know, 3000 to 70,000, that's okay. You know, and it's down for me. Yeah. So, but the thing is that wasn't because I'm so brilliant and I work so hard.

So we have to realize that we cannot side hustle ourselves out of this situation. Our assets and our money has to work harder than we do because we cannot work hard enough. There's so many people over half the country is just having a hard time making ends meet, right? Such inequality with the rich getting richer and everyone else. So if you don't have some hard assets, you got to get yourself some, even if you just go, and you have to invest in yourself because, hey, high chances you're going to get laid off anyway. So what was that dream thing? You got to invest in yourself and what is, you know, develop your own self as a business.

So anyway, you can't escape that we need hard assets and food storage, you know, the Mormon background is like, you got to have like food storage, water storage. We know things can get weird. But because of that, I want to, besides investing in those things, I want to buy as much owner finance property as I can get because I want, you talk about, yeah, that when inflation goes and you have a fixed low interest rate, and then not that I want a bunch of property. I mean, some of it I do, but I'm going to wrap that and it's not going to be, you know, and it's, a bank's not going to call the loan due, you know? So I'm really after the people that have 80 to 100% equity in their property.

That's my, because once I get that, that is my power position as the buyer getting great terms. There's no substitute because that on and on and on the profit center that's, you know, spit off from that. And then just buying other people's notes, but with leverage, other people's money that want to get, so it's kind of like, okay, it's just debt and inflationary. Yeah, but I still make a spread off of other people's money. So, you know, sometimes I don't, because I just bring what I become. So anyway, I'm looking at buying owner finance property and buying front end parcels of other people's notes that they've carried.

And then just making, you know, put food on the table regularly with just, okay, what pipelines feed that being an agent, maybe even being a wholesaler. I mean, there's so many things that feed this, let alone just like trying to blab my story around about it and trying to get people woken up about it. But the other timeline is we are in for something we can't even imagine of a reset and a shift that will make everything we think we know obsolete. And the financial system won't work the same whatsoever. And it will be better. And it won't, we won't, it'll work more fairly for everyone. And so it's almost like, if I could get to that, if that utopia sort of happens, now I'm not going to go there, I'm going to sound too weird, but I'm just going to say that, you know, would I be willing if, let's say there was a complete jubilee and all the mortgage debt, since it's fraudulent, most of it, you know, the, the, it's the, since 1913, we just had a big Ponzi scheme and, and the institutions are falling apart at the seams.

So if there was mass debt forgiveness, all the mortgages disappeared, how would that change? Everything? Oh, wow. And would I be okay? Would I be okay with that? Right. No, that person owes me something or I'm not saying that would be, but it's just a mental exercise to go. It could sort of do a trajectory or boom, we have a completely different reset system. And that's actually going to work better for humanity as a whole. So I don't know. Sorry. I, I, I'm glad we, it's all good. That's good. Yeah. Well, Dawn, it was a pleasure having you come on the show, the wealth of knowledge experience, just the way you think about things is different from anyone else.

So we're grateful to have you grateful for you to join us for a little bit. We will see you at the next conference. I'm sure we will. If you are looking to see Dawn, the contact information will be below. If you do have one, reach out to her, please do that. And we'll catch you soon. Once again, Dawn, thank you so much. And for everyone else, we'll see everyone soon. Take care..