How to Build a Buyer-First Real Estate Model with 30 Years of Zero Missed Payments | Real Estate Notes Show

**David Putz:** Welcome back to another Real Estate Note Show. I'm your host, Dave Putz. Alongside me, as always, Mr. Nathan Turner. How are you? **Nathan Turner:** Hey, doing really well. How about you, man? **David Putz:** Yeah, man, springtime, like we talked last time, it's an exciting time, we're getting warmer weather, we're getting rid of the snow, I know it's sad for you with skiing, it's kind of going away… **David Putz:** It's getting there, it's getting there. I get out to the hills as often as I can. We actually get more snow in… **Nathan Turner:** February, March than we do in January, February, or January and December, so it's all good.

**David Putz:** Yeah. **Nathan Turner:** Getting all the good snow right now, and up in the mountains at least, so… it's good. **David Putz:** That's awesome. So, with the notes space right now, we actually acquired two loans just last week, which is wonderful. We're trying to deploy a little bit more money out for some other stuff going on. I'm gonna try hypothasing next week, we'll see how it goes. **Nathan Turner:** And we'll report back. **David Putz:** you know, two things, we got two housekeeping things, and then we want to hit one thing that we talked about recently. So, first off, like always, bring up the DME for those who have no clue who we are.

We've both been in real estate notes for 10, 15 years plus. **David Putz:** But there's the opportunity to connect with others, which is crucial. **David Putz:** And… Yeah. **David Putz:** That could be the first time you've ever connected with someone in person. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah, for sure, and that's what I really found going to note in conferences in the past, is I would meet people that I'd spoken to on the phone that I'd never actually met before. We'd actually even done deals and everything, sent money back and forth, and then for the first time, I meet them in person at a conference.

**Nathan Turner:** But it's essential to get to a conference. This business is more about relationships than anything else I know. **Nathan Turner:** So it really is crucial that… I totally know it sounds like a pitch coming from a guy who runs a conference, but I can tell you, in all honesty, that is how my business has grown. **Nathan Turner:** It's just by going to conferences and talking to people, and and just really getting in the know, and getting in those kind of relationships with people as we go. **Nathan Turner:** But super excited for this year, we've got some awesome topics, it's gonna be really fun, really interesting stuff that I… **David Putz:** May 1st and May 2nd, guys, get down there, get flight down there, get your ticket, DM me, Diversified Mortgage Expo, we'll both be there, enjoying ourselves, networking, and if you know us, please feel free to come up and say hello.

**Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **David Putz:** We always love meeting people and share some feedback. **David Putz:** One other thing we got going on is, a partner of mine, we started up a way to… people in the real estate space **David Putz:** are tinkering with AI, and automation, and sometimes we run into a lot of technical people who want to help us with AI, but they don't know any about real estate. **David Putz:** So, one of the things that most people know about me is I love automations. I love playing with it. I do a lot with AI behind the scenes that most people never heard of, right? But I also understand there's a lot of people who are very new at AI and are really curious about how it can benefit their business.

**David Putz:** So, we wanted to help from that point of view. We started a once-a-week call where we go over a solve a problem, where we take a real-life situation, and we solve it with AI systems to do that. And then we have a full loop, but what we more importantly do is we take a mastermind group of people. **David Putz:** and put them in a position where they're, in 30 days, their business is transformed, because not only do they use AI, they understand how to use AI, they understand what to do with AI, because a lot of times, you don't even know how to get started. What do you ask? What do you do? What do you… **David Putz:** And that feature is so important for you, because if you don't, you will be left behind.

It just… **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **David Putz:** AI is transforming the world right now, and if you say, well, I want to put it off, I'm telling you right now, all you have to know is a little bit to be super, super productive in your investment business. You don't gotta be an expert. A lot of times, the technical people just are too technical, they just don't get the real estate side, right? **David Putz:** We've done… take text, turn it into spreadsheets, and do research with AI. Things that, a year or two ago, were not available. **David Putz:** And now, today's, it's simple. So if you are interested, jkpholdings.com slash AI dash mastermind.

Alright. With that… **David Putz:** I wanted to bring up… one of the things that Nathan and I love to do is we love to talk to people who have lots of experience. **David Putz:** Knowledge. Strategies. Strategies and strategies, right? We want to know something about someone who's made mistakes. **David Putz:** And… stories, right? **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **David Putz:** Nathan, I mean, we first got into this stuff… **David Putz:** We didn't know anybody, we didn't learn anything. And today. **David Putz:** We know a lot of people, and the best people we connect with are the people who have the same experience, but totally different experience, same time.

**Nathan Turner:** Absolutely. I mean, and we both, you know, aside from the real estate, or aside from the note experience, both of us have done real estate as well, and so it's not like we don't know anything. We've been doing this long enough that we've got, you know, a few experiences under our belt, but… **Nathan Turner:** There are people in the business that have been doing this far longer than we have, and have had all kinds of different experiences, and that's… the sharing of those experiences is what helps us all learn and grow together, so I'm excited to talk to our guest today. **David Putz:** Yeah.

**David Putz:** Our guest today is gonna be traumatic, right? He talks about stuff that you've probably heard before, but he tells you from his point of view, he has over 30 years of experience, guys, like… and ladies. **David Putz:** But this is traumatic, right? Because of the fact that 30 years, and it was do-it-your-own-self, bootstrapped on, make mistakes, learn from it. **David Putz:** And until recently, really wasn't doing any kind of education because he was doing the game, until he got pushed over the edge and said, listen. **David Putz:** Can you help? And he did. So, we're gonna bring him in, too.

Shane, thank you so much for joining us, man. It was a pleasure meeting you a couple weeks ago, and talking. **David Putz:** Let's jump into this thing, man. What is your… how'd you get into real estate? And tell us your entrance into this whole… **David Putz:** Fun game of investing. **Shane Perkins:** Well, thank you guys, first and foremost. Thanks for having me on, I really appreciate that, and it's an honor to be on, and I can't wait to get going. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** But, I started in real estate, actually in the manufactured housing industry, in mobile homes, and I was selling RVs when my wife and I got married in 94.

**Shane Perkins:** I sold an RV to a gentleman. **Shane Perkins:** And he just liked me, and he said, you need to meet my brother-in-law. He's… I think you'd enjoy that, because I was selling RVs in Colorado, you know, and it's, **Shane Perkins:** you store your nuts over the summertime, because winter's, you know, famine time in the RV business in Colorado. And I'd earned my vacation, I'd been there for a year, and… **Shane Perkins:** And, I called his brother-in-law, and it was south of us, it was in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and he had a manufactured housing dealership, and he said, why don't you take your vacation and come down and work for me for a week? **Shane Perkins:** And so I did.

You know, we… we loved the mountains of Colorado and loved where we were at, but **Shane Perkins:** Young married couple, we didn't have kids yet, and went down there and worked for him for… **Shane Perkins:** A week, and on paper, made $19,000. **Shane Perkins:** And I'm like… I looked at my wife, I said, we're moving. And now, you know, it ended up being about half that, you know, because there's, you know, turndowns and financing and things like that. But, so I kind of got my house… my start in the housing industry, if you will, in the manufactured housing industry. **Shane Perkins:** Wow. And I'm a Native American, Choctaw Indian, and so that area down there, you know, there's Indian reservations everywhere, and so that kind of became my forte, was helping the different tribes… excuse me.

**Shane Perkins:** Helping the different tribes. **Shane Perkins:** get homes, you know, on the Indian Reservation. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** can't own your land, so manufactured housing is about the only way. You know, chattel loans. **Shane Perkins:** And so I started working down that path, and then… **Shane Perkins:** from a financing standpoint, you know, just had a lot of these turndowns. But I started studying the credit instead of the credit scores. **Shane Perkins:** And, these people paid their bills. They just didn't pay regularly. There was a lot of late payments, and it drove the score down, but everything's paid.

**Shane Perkins:** And so I've really started whining and dining the lenders and saying, guys, you're gonna get paid, you're gonna make late fees, you know. **Shane Perkins:** and let's… and so I had a lot of success. **Shane Perkins:** the Hickory Apache tribe, Navajo. They ended up transferring me to the Four Corners area, which is, you know, I dealt in Utah, Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico. **Shane Perkins:** And that was just far more tribes. And so the financing side of it is what really intrigued me, and I got several lenders, national lenders, to be able to buy into **Shane Perkins:** to helping these people get homes.

You know, people living in mud huts, hogans. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** And it's still there today. It's still on these reservations. **Nathan Turner:** So that's really how I got my start. Wow. And, you know, you can say real estate, really it's housing. Yep. **Shane Perkins:** And before I was married, I was in, you know, the construction industry for a long time, so I'd been around that side of it. **David Putz:** Yeah. Pretty cool. Amazing. Did you buy any courses back then? **Shane Perkins:** I did. I bought the Carlton Sheets course. **David Putz:** Never heard of it. **Shane Perkins:** And it sat on my shelf in the cellophane in my closet for probably a year, and back then it was cassette tapes, you know, I think.

And so, I dug it out and started listening to it, and it made some sense to me, and it was still some time, but the industry I was in. **Shane Perkins:** So that was my first taste of, you know, outside of an employee. **Shane Perkins:** the dealership I worked for traded for a mobile home, and they sent me out to look at it and take pictures and all that. **Shane Perkins:** And if you guys understand, you know, when you take something on trade, let's say they're buying a house for $30,000. Well, if you mark it up 35 grand, you can give them $5,000 down payment, and you're still getting your $30,000.

It's called an over-allowance. Well, that's what they did. They didn't want this mobile home. **Shane Perkins:** And… but we had to get it off the lot. And I said, well, I'll buy it. And they sold it to me for $100. **Shane Perkins:** And I ended up getting it moved. That cost me about 500 or 600 bucks. **Shane Perkins:** Put it on a lot. **Shane Perkins:** My wife and I, she was pregnant, and we… and our son's 30 years old now, so it's easy to remember how long I've been doing this, right? So… **Shane Perkins:** But we took our weekends and evenings and worked on this mobile home, spent about another $3,000 and sold it for $19,000.

And I was just… I was hooked. I'm like, that's what we want to do. **Nathan Turner:** So really, I started doing in mobile homes. **David Putz:** And then I started seeking other education and things like that, and. **Shane Perkins:** I know everybody's probably heard of Ron LeGrand, he's been around forever. And so, I've been to all his courses back in the day, and just started doing real estate deals. **David Putz:** Wow, you had a really good start. You had a great start. I don't think all of us can say how good of a start we had, but it sounded like you really got good taste and success. You know, the worst thing could have happened, you lost money in that deal and it went south.

That would have been really terrible. **David Putz:** Thank you for sharing. So, give us some feedback. Could you do the same tactics today if you started all over? **Shane Perkins:** You know, I've been out of the manufactured housing industry for a long time, but, you know, in any sort of business, right, we're taught to buy low and sell high. **Nathan Turner:** It doesn't matter what the business is. And so. **Shane Perkins:** Can you do that in real estate? Absolutely, you can. **Shane Perkins:** There is a ton of competition out there right now, you know, wholesaling, and, you know, there's so many… there's AIs that you were talking about in your intro, you know, that'll send out, you know, 500 letters of intent every single day to realtors, and they're getting bombarded, so I would say that the competition… **Shane Perkins:** And I hate to even use the word competition, because there's so many amateurs out there, but the competition is stiff, and you do have to stand out.

So, can you do that today? You can. Is it tougher? I believe that it is. **Shane Perkins:** And that's why I believe that education is so important. I think that you need to arm yourself with every tool that you can, including AI, **Shane Perkins:** And just, you know, give yourself a leg up. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Nathan Turner:** That's great. **Nathan Turner:** Man, that's really cool. So, I drove down with my family in 95 down to New Mexico, so we were driving right by you right when you were getting your start. **David Putz:** So what'd you do next after mobile homes, since you're not in it any longer? What was your next step? **Shane Perkins:** Well, so, in manufactured housing, that, the guy that I went to work for, initially, I only worked there for about 2 months.

He was, not a good… he… he wasn't an honorable businessman. He did a lot of things… he had an office. **Shane Perkins:** that were manufacturing tax returns and, you know, doing things like that, and I just… I'm like, as soon as I found that out, I'm like, I gotta go, and I actually went to work. **Shane Perkins:** To, to, with his next-door neighbor. The, the, the people that, you know, right next door. And, they hired me, they, **Shane Perkins:** transferred me to that Four Corners area. I ended up managing a couple of stores for them, and they transferred me back to Texas, where, you know, close to where we came from, before my wife and I even got married.

And, I worked for them for about another year, and opened my own dealership. **Shane Perkins:** And then saw… we started doing… and I had a, **Shane Perkins:** I had a backer, somebody that came to me and was like, you know, you're doing well over here for these guys, they're making all the money, why don't you make it for yourself, and I'll back you. And so that's what we did. And I owned that dealership. **Shane Perkins:** Until 99. Actually, 2000. **Shane Perkins:** Because the gentleman that I sold to wanted to wait to close until Y2K was over with, because… So, we had it contracted in 99, but we closed, you know, early January after… after we made sure the world didn't implode, so… **Nathan Turner:** We were telling our kids about that recently, and they're like, why? Why was this such a big deal? **Shane Perkins:** It's a long story.

It's a long story, yeah. **Shane Perkins:** And, so I ended up opening a… I didn't know what I was gonna do, but, the one thing that the manufactured housing industry did, and I think this is actually… I wasn't even gonna… I wasn't even thinking about this, but that industry imploded itself. **Shane Perkins:** with loose lending practices, blow fog on a mirror, you get a loan for, you know, a home, low down payments, no down payments, and I had a mentor **Shane Perkins:** a friend of mine that I met in the industry that had been doing it for 40 years, and when I sold my dealership, he told me, he said, get out.

**Shane Perkins:** And I kind of felt it coming. And, the… the way that I sold my dealership was… **Shane Perkins:** somebody called me, actually meaning to call my competitor down the street and ask for him, and of course, you know, I think it's a customer, we're gonna try to flip them to get him in the door. And he said, oh, I'm thinking about buying, and I just blurted it out. I said, well, my dealership's for sale. And that's how I… that's how I found my buyer on that just… **Shane Perkins:** stance. **Nathan Turner:** Hmm. **Shane Perkins:** But, **Shane Perkins:** So, I didn't really know what I was gonna do when I sold that dealership.

I started a mortgage company. **David Putz:** What you're reading about. **Shane Perkins:** 2000. **Nathan Turner:** Okay, yeah. **Shane Perkins:** And, had a. **Nathan Turner:** market construction. **Shane Perkins:** background. Well, the foreclosure crisis that we saw in 2008 happened in 2000, 2001 in the manufactured housing industry. Oh, okay. **David Putz:** You know that. **Shane Perkins:** Houston area, and the lenders had thousands of mobile homes on… Repossessions. **Shane Perkins:** In mobile home parks, they were towing them in, they had lots everywhere, the industry died. The people I sold to went out of business in, like, 9 months.

**Shane Perkins:** It was terrible for them. **Shane Perkins:** But… **Shane Perkins:** I had a friend, one of the lenders, he's like, we're looking for somebody to rehab and remodel. And I had some crews, because we did some land home deals and stuff like that, and they weren't busy anymore. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** So I was like, well, let us remodel. We went and bid a couple jobs, and we were way too high for them, and so the, **Shane Perkins:** The… what we did… **Shane Perkins:** He gave us some bids of the winning contractors, so he'd say, you need to get your prices in line with this, right? **Shane Perkins:** And so we… I ended up getting a partner.

It was a strange story. My son went… was friends with this kid at school. His parents and I, we all went to the same church. **Shane Perkins:** His dad was in the manufactured housing industry, sold, like, a month before me, and so that was kind of the, you know. **David Putz:** Oh. **Shane Perkins:** And I… he and I ended up partnering together in this rehab business, because he had crews as well, and we started rehabbing mobile homes for the… for the lenders, and it's definitely a volume play. There was no, you know, you didn't make a ton of money on each one. **Shane Perkins:** But we… all the manufactured housing dealers were going out of business, and so we started warehousing and buying all the parts.

Wallboard, and stainless steel sinks, and ceiling. **David Putz:** Huge demand, though. Huge demand, I'm sure. **Shane Perkins:** I bought… I bought a truckload of Casablanca ceiling fans for a dollar a piece, and I had to buy the whole 18-wheeler load. Doorknobs, faucets, cabinets, you know, everything that's built in a mobile home. And so… **Shane Perkins:** we made our money in volume. And so we were doing 30 to 50 rehabs a month. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** ours were selling better than anybody else's, we just figured it out. A lot of our crew members figured it out, and and we warehoused all those parts.

So we made our money on volume. **Shane Perkins:** It was, you know, and so we… that was, you know, definitely not real estate, but rehabbing manufactured homes, and they were selling, and we bought some ourselves, and started flipping those. And then, once the lenders **Shane Perkins:** stopped paying. **Shane Perkins:** We kind of saw the writing on the wall, and again, I had friends at the lenders, and they're saying, you know, some of the contractors aren't getting paid, so we would still go bid some jobs, we just wouldn't accept them. **Shane Perkins:** Because we were, you know, it took us 30 days to get paid anyway, and that was beginning to stretch to 60 and 90, and we ended up… I think there was one invoice for, like, $5,500, it was small.

**Shane Perkins:** that we got stuck with, that we never got paid on, but we kind of exited out of that, and I focused on the… **Shane Perkins:** the mortgage business for a while, and the reason I got in the mortgage business was to control my real estate deals. It wasn't to get into the mortgage business, but that ended up being, you know, fairly lucrative, but I saw the crash coming **Shane Perkins:** Because I saw the same loose lending practices during the subprime meltdown, I saw leading up to it. And in fact, my, you know, my company, we did a lot of subprime loans. **David Putz:** Sure, everyone did.

**Shane Perkins:** Yeah, that's where the money's at. **David Putz:** So, what made you transition to… **David Putz:** Mortgages and lending, what made that transition happen for you? **Shane Perkins:** I would say… **Shane Perkins:** that, you know, the subprime helped out a lot, but at the end of the day, I wanted to control my real estate deals. We started buying and flipping and finding buyers and doing credit repair and all of that, and so we were rehabbing our own… we'd moved over into single, you know, into state-built homes. And we were buying and flipping those homes, and so really all we did was fix and flip.

**Shane Perkins:** I never… I did some wholesale deals, but if I'm gonna go through the trouble to find a wholesale deal. **Shane Perkins:** I'm gonna make all the money on it. I'm not gonna wholesale it. I mean, we had the crews, too. I think that's a big drift. **David Putz:** So now you went from… you went from rehabbing it to buying it, fixing it, and then selling on terms. **Shane Perkins:** No. I was financing them through my mobile home, or excuse me, through my mortgage company, because I had the ability to get them qualified, and back then, we could do quick rescores, you know, there were all sorts of tips and tricks and everything that you could do to help somebody get financed.

**Shane Perkins:** And so, you know, we just, we did everything that we could, and, you know, you could fix somebody's credit in a week back then. You know, it called a quick rescore, and I think that's, you know, there's some of that today. But, **Shane Perkins:** Yeah, I mean, that was the biggest thing, is just getting people financed. But then, when the 07, 08 came around, remember I told you they transferred us to Texas, and that was in, 90… **Shane Perkins:** 8, my wife was pregnant when I was in 90… 97. Mid-97. **Shane Perkins:** I ended up going back from the Four Corners area back to, Texas.

And we were north of Houston. And so, that was where we were at at that time, and that's where the mortgage company was, and all of that. And so, repeat the question again, I'm sorry. **David Putz:** I'm curious how you got into the other side of this, because most of your time, most of the proceeds you've made has been on the other side of this, not just selling and getting a mortgage person. You've gotten into a whole new angle, or avenue, over the last 15, 20 years since the crisis. **Shane Perkins:** Yeah, I would… you know, the… the crisis, I… again, I saw it coming better than most, just because I lived in the manufactured housing industry.

I saw what they were doing, and I felt it coming. And my wife and I, in 01, set a 5-year goal to get back to Colorado. **Shane Perkins:** you know, that's where we moved from Texas to Colorado, you know, when we first got married and wanted to get back here. And so we set that goal, and when 06 started rolling around. **Shane Perkins:** my business was killing it, and I told my wife, I said, one more year, because we wanted to move while our kids were still young enough to do the high school sports. **David Putz:** When you said killing it, you were buying, fixing it, and then having them be financed by a bank.

**Shane Perkins:** Yes, yeah, we were… and the mortgage company was doing well as well. **Nathan Turner:** Sure, yeah. **Shane Perkins:** And I ended up selling that in 07. **Shane Perkins:** And, the… we sold our house in March of 07, **Shane Perkins:** We sold… I sold the business, like, in January of 07, the mortgage company, and we leased our house back until the kids got out of school in May, and we moved to Colorado, and. **David Putz:** Got it. **Shane Perkins:** And that's… **Nathan Turner:** Perfect timing, yeah. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** I remember in… it was June, late June of 2007, **Shane Perkins:** And the first time I ever heard the term, subprime meltdown.

**Shane Perkins:** Yeah. Was on the radio on… while we were moving from Texas to Colorado. **Shane Perkins:** And that was the beginning. Of course, then they came the credit crunch and everything like that, and I actually, was going to start teaching my strategy, because I had already started doing these reverse wraps. **Shane Perkins:** And I was gonna teach that up here in Colorado, but the industry imploded, so I just started doing Sub 2 because there were so many, houses for sale, so I started **Shane Perkins:** a lot more sub-2 and seller financing, and creating notes, and wraps. And, you know, the trouble back then is nobody had money.

You know, 10% down payment was about all you could get. Over the years, I do deals now, it's 20% down. **Shane Perkins:** And, we obtain the house and sell to our buyers with seller financing. But that's… **Shane Perkins:** Yeah, that's kind of the evolution, if you will. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah, talk about touching on all the different parts, manufacturing, going from that, to lending, to… **David Putz:** Rehabbing, everything. **Nathan Turner:** rehabbing, like, the… all… all the… all the points. That's really good, that's… Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** Financing is, I think, the most important component, right? Without financing, you're, you know, it's hard from an investor standpoint, or from a home buyer's standpoint.

If you don't have that, you don't have a deal. **Shane Perkins:** And so, I, you know, what I attempted to do also was wine and dine the lenders in Texas, the way I did the… in the Four Corners area and the Indian Reservations, but the story wasn't the same. **Shane Perkins:** These people paid their bills, it's just like. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** It's like going to town and going to the trading post, you know, 3 times a year. You catch up on all your bills, and that's just the way they lived. But they paid everything. **Shane Perkins:** bad credit when we got down to Texas, you know, you can't garnish wages in Texas, a totally different story.

You know, so fighting with the lenders down there and trying to get them to buy your deals was not gonna happen. It worked in one area. **David Putz:** So, we're gonna fast-forward here, right? So, I know that you have the ultimatestrategy.com site. **David Putz:** That's probably a portion of this. Tell us more about the ultimate strategy that you've developed, not by, I want to teach it, by just living it, and designing it, and it worked for you, and you are now **David Putz:** sharing it with others, so tell us a little bit about that. **Shane Perkins:** Well, the ultimate strategy, in a nutshell, I call it… the Ultimate Strategy is the name of my company, but, it was the name of this… what I did for a long time, and I've changed the name of it to the Reverse Wrap, because it just makes more sense.

And the reason I call it the Reverse Wrap is because in the… in the real estate investment community, you've got so many people out there just trying to buy houses, houses, houses. **Shane Perkins:** houses. **Shane Perkins:** And especially in the Subject 2 market, there's a lot of that going on right now, but there's a lot of what I call victims of people that deed their house over to someone, and they're not getting payments made, because in order… you gotta have a buyer. **Shane Perkins:** And so what the reverse wrap, what I do with that is I focus on finding that buyer first. **Shane Perkins:** The buyer with 20% down.

**Shane Perkins:** a buyer that has income, but can't qualify for traditional financing for whatever reason. Sometimes it's, you know, proof of income because of business owners, sometimes it is credit, sometimes it's an I-10 buyer, they're from outside the United States, and they're, you know, they're moving here, and… **Shane Perkins:** And many other things. If you're one payment behind on a student loan, you cannot get a mortgage. **Shane Perkins:** You know, if you've got a tax lien, and you're making payments on it, you can't get a mortgage. If you file bankruptcy in the last 3 years, you can't get a mortgage.

And what I noticed is these things that happen to people, you know, we've got a, I think, a broken credit system and a broken mortgage system. **Shane Perkins:** And… the… You know, you can fall ill and miss payments for 3 months and get well. **Shane Perkins:** But you gotta suffer the consequences of that for 7 to 10 years. That's a broken system. It can happen to you. **David Putz:** Three months! **Nathan Turner:** Nine, yeah. **David Putz:** You know, and that's just from an illness. Most people understand the rap world, right? They buy… they get the house, they find the seller, they take over the payments to the sub-2 world, right? And then they wrap that with a brand new buyer that they have to go find.

**David Putz:** is sometimes it takes them two, three, four months to find the buyer, and they find a buyer, and sometimes the buyer doesn't have the money, doesn't have the problems. And there are a lot of people trying that method. And we had Dan Diaz on, I don't know, two and a half, three years ago, and **David Putz:** I like your and his strategy **David Putz:** That methodology makes sense to me. **David Putz:** Once you have a buyer, you have the money and the finances to get this thing started. **David Putz:** Now you go… **Shane Perkins:** That's fine. **David Putz:** property. **Shane Perkins:** You're exactly right.

And so, when you have a buyer, and you… and I know how to attract these buyers, because I've been doing it for a long time. **Nathan Turner:** Sure. **Shane Perkins:** Where they seek me out, and they've got 20% down, they have the, the income, the ability to make the payments on a home, and so we do a debt-to-income calculation and make sure we know what they can afford, and we commit them to us. I've got a home buyer presentation that locks them to me like glue. They don't want to do business with anybody else once they sit through my home buyer's presentation. **Shane Perkins:** you're the guy, we want to buy a house, and they're stuck to me, and so we go through the process, and really, they identify the house, it's not me.

And then we acquire the home, and sell it to them with seller financing. **David Putz:** So, let's break that down a little bit. Let's break that down for a minute, right, Nathan? So, we have a buyer, we pre-approve them for a certain amount of money. **Shane Perkins:** Yes. **David Putz:** We take that buyer and say, go shopping! **Shane Perkins:** Yep. **David Putz:** They go and find housing, because they don't have financing, so you're doing it like a traditional bank would, right? The buyer gets pre-approved, they talk to their agent, the agent says, great, you're pre-approved for $300, they then go shopping.

But if they can't go get the pre-approval, they're in a bad spot. **David Putz:** So then they go and they find the house. **David Putz:** You go through the same process a bank would do. **David Putz:** And then you provide the funding for them to buy the house. **Shane Perkins:** That's absolutely correct, and the nice thing about it, from an investment. **Nathan Turner:** for sure. **Shane Perkins:** standpoint. The home buyer presentation sets my buyers up. **Shane Perkins:** When we find the house, where does the earnest money come from? I don't have to place it. **Shane Perkins:** She's my buyer.

**Shane Perkins:** I have their down payment in-house 3 days before the closing. **David Putz:** Whoa! **Shane Perkins:** The house is pre-sold, they move in the same day. We close the same day. I close, they close. Same day, they move in the house, so there's no vacancy. **Nathan Turner:** there's… **Shane Perkins:** no insurance, utilities, there's none of the other things, expenses that you have to worry about from what I call a transaction engineer. That's what we're doing. We're shuffling paper, right? But it's simple, but it's around homes. **David Putz:** So when you do this, though… go ahead, Nathan, go ahead.

**Nathan Turner:** I'm just… I'm curious, and I'm sure this is a question a lot of people have, is… **Nathan Turner:** Why are these people needing to get financing from you? Why can't they just go to a traditional bank? **Nathan Turner:** Are they… **Shane Perkins:** Well… **Nathan Turner:** Like, the dregs of society, these are the guys that… **Shane Perkins:** Absolutely not. Absolutely not. **Nathan Turner:** Tell us about that. **Shane Perkins:** First of all, 20% down… here's what I've noticed over the years. There's 3 components that stick people into a home where they're not gonna let it go.

**Shane Perkins:** And those 3 components are in the home of their choice, right? Because they can go find seller financing, but it's usually not the home of their choice. But that's a very important key. **Shane Perkins:** Equity, 20% down is equity. **David Putz:** Right? Yes. And. **Shane Perkins:** I said 3. Oh, oh, and the income to support the payments. If they have those 3 components, you got a secure deal, and I don't care what the bank says. **Nathan Turner:** Sure. They're not right. I've seen it too many times. **Shane Perkins:** I've done… I've closed over 1,300 deals. **Shane Perkins:** In my career, and that includes, you know, that's from manufactured housing and the mortgage industry, that, you know, that's everything that I've done, and I really quit counting several years ago, so… **Shane Perkins:** But those 3 components, if you have that, you've got a good tenant.

And to me, 20% down is your down payment. **Shane Perkins:** I mean, excuse me, is your credit. Yeah. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah, yeah. **Shane Perkins:** I really don't give… I really don't care that they had an illness that put them behind on their payments, or they lost a job, or they had a divorce, or the things like that that happen to people. It's just life. **Nathan Turner:** Thanks, man. **David Putz:** Bad things happen to good people. **Shane Perkins:** Every single day, and 7 to 10 years, to me, I mean, that right there tells… just shows you it's a broken system. They can punish you for that period of time for something that happens, a car wreck, in the blink of an eye.

**David Putz:** Yep. **Shane Perkins:** Right? Anything like that, and that's just… it's not right. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. So… **David Putz:** So, we have our buyer, We double-close the deal, right? You're providing the funding, you're becoming their bank, Right? **David Putz:** What! **David Putz:** happens. Now, a lot of rap buyers and sub-2 buyers now have to fix the house up, they have to carry the debt for 2 months, then they come all… come to us and say, guys, can you give me a loan for 30 grand? I'm gonna put you in second position, and it becomes really dirty. It becomes messy. **David Putz:** Where they missed the key point here.

It's not the house! **David Putz:** It's the borrower! **David Putz:** So when you do the borrower situation, you solve the biggest equation of the whole thing is, who's gonna buy the property? And now, what I… me and Nathan talk about on other shows is, when you do a sub-2 rap, that buyer has one property to pick from. **David Putz:** If you have 3 or 4 or 5, they have 5 of everything out there. **David Putz:** Where if you work with the buyer first, now you give the buyer an opportunity to go… go shopping. Just like the bank does. **Shane Perkins:** I know what they can afford. **Shane Perkins:** I know what school district they want to be in, how many bedrooms, bathrooms, mother-in-law quarters, whatever their situation is, the home buyer presentation and the process that I put them through identifies that, and we know exactly what we're looking for.

So when we get it. **Shane Perkins:** it's a pre-sold house. I don't make the commitment or the offer unless my buyer has seen it and says, that's the house, and we're full bore right then. We go. **Shane Perkins:** And… It just works. **Shane Perkins:** Yeah, and it's so much easier. I can tell you this, I can't imagine… **Shane Perkins:** being out there just looking, searching for wholesale deals and sub-2 deals all day long in this climate. I would do it, because it's good money, and I enjoy it, and, you know, helping people get out of homes is just as solid a service as helping somebody get into homes.

**Shane Perkins:** Right? **David Putz:** Now you have no seller, though, that comes back and says, you screwed me. You have no seller come back a year or two going, are you paying my bills? **David Putz:** You know, you pay that sub-chew… **David Putz:** situation is dangerous, or if they want to go buy another house. **David Putz:** They can't win a sub-2, they're stuck, they have this debt on their book still, because they never transferred. Here, you're doing traditional real estate. **David Putz:** And just supplement the bank. What kind of rates are you typically… what's the financing look like for these buyers? **Shane Perkins:** So it's a… it's a little… **David Putz:** charging.

**Shane Perkins:** different on every deal, but single-digit rate, 30-year fix, no balloon payments. That's what we do. And so, is there an occasion where I'll take somebody with 15% down? You bet. And so, there's a little bit of a rate hit on that. **Shane Perkins:** You know, if they… if they don't have the money for closing costs, and we go to roll that in, then we, you know, obviously the investors want a little bit more. The higher the risk, the higher the interest rate, right? **David Putz:** Sure. **Shane Perkins:** So that's just the way it works, right? And you guys are in the note business, so you understand that completely.

Yeah. And so. **David Putz:** So, are you doing 3% mortgages? Are you doing 3.5%? **Shane Perkins:** No, it… no. We don't do anything close to market interest rates, right? **David Putz:** You shouldn't! **Shane Perkins:** No, these… and I'll tell you this. You know, that's… I sell against lease options, and if, you know, if your listeners do lease options, I sell against them because I think it's a risky investment for anything with, you know, 20% down, you're not going to get 20% down on a lease option. **David Putz:** Nate, you listening to this? See this? Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** What happens if your buyer files bankruptcy? Or, excuse me, your seller files bankruptcy, or has a divorce? **David Putz:** or something like that.

**Shane Perkins:** like that, and they've got, you know, 20% cash into that. You know, a little bit more than a security deposit or something like that, lease options are perfectly fine, except in Texas, right? And there's a few places you can't do them, but… **David Putz:** For the most part, I sell against that. Everybody gets a deed in their name. **Shane Perkins:** The importance of a high down payment is the fact that they can deduct that interest from their taxes. That's very, very important. You can't get the kind of payments that we get, and cash flow that we get, on a lease payment, because it's hard for them to swallow that.

**David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** every single month and not get something back for it. **David Putz:** Three notes in my inbox this morning from sellers who created 4 to 6.2% rate notes. **David Putz:** Why? Are you creating a note at 4% in today's world? And most of the answers, Shane, I get is, well, that's what the buyer can afford. **David Putz:** And my answer is then you found the wrong. **Shane Perkins:** Get a different buyer. It's that simple. Guys, I'll tell you this, and there's a friend of mine that does a lot of contract work with Zillow on the technical side. They have 7,000 applications a day that are turned down, because you apply for a mortgage on Zillow now, right? 7,000 a day.

**Shane Perkins:** With 20% down, that are turned down. **David Putz:** Whoa! That's… **Shane Perkins:** the market in the United States. So, I've never had a problem finding somebody with 20% down, and they gladly pay more interest because, you know, what the mortgage broker's telling them? Wait a couple of years, go do this, go do that. **David Putz:** I want it now! **Shane Perkins:** far more in 2 years than the additional interest that they're gonna pay, and they recognize that. And if they don't, okay, you know, no hard feelings. **David Putz:** And they want to start a family, right? They want to move their kids, they… they're starting a job.

They can't put anything on hold for 3, 6, 3 years, 2 years, doesn't matter what it is. **Shane Perkins:** And I think one security. **David Putz:** Yes! **Shane Perkins:** They want security. They want to make sure that their landlord is not going to come and say, hey, my kids are gonna move back in the house, and you gotta move, and that kind of stuff. People want security, and they'll pay a premium for it. And we don't, you know, we make money, and we're full disclosure all the way through. **Shane Perkins:** Everybody knows what they're gonna get from day one. **Shane Perkins:** And, you know, transparency is the best business model, right? **Nathan Turner:** Yeah, I mean, as a self-employed person, I mean, I know how difficult it is to go to the bank and to get them to look at me.

**Nathan Turner:** in the right light. You know, they don't understand the kind of income that I'm bringing in, or they at least don't acknowledge it the same way that it was as if. **Shane Perkins:** Well, let me see your tax returns, and then, yeah, okay, well, you… $20,000 a year, yeah, well… **Nathan Turner:** Right, exactly. **Shane Perkins:** Billy. **Nathan Turner:** I'm paying $5,000 a month, and they cannot get their heads around that, so a service like this is invaluable, where you're offering it. And then, am I willing to pay a premium for that? Absolutely, because that's the way I can get it done.

**Shane Perkins:** You know, guys, and it's not all about money. I can't tell you how many tears have been shed from families. **Shane Perkins:** Including my own, because they're able to get into a home and, you know, what I say. **David Putz:** Gave him an opportunity to be a homeowner. Yeah. Right? **Shane Perkins:** Tell them, become a homeowner today, not someday. **David Putz:** I love the pitch. I love it. So, all these people out here doing rap notes and sub-2s, it gets dirty quickly, right? It's not clean. I get you're making money doing it, guys. **David Putz:** Here's another thing, he's underwriting the borrower.

**David Putz:** That is… **David Putz:** By far, the biggest thing, make sure we do, we talk about this on all the shows, underwrite that borrower, make sure they have ability to repay that loan. You don't want anything else. **Shane Perkins:** If you don't, you're… it's just… you might make a few bucks today, but it's gonna be a headache and cost you later, I promise. **David Putz:** Yeah, and you're not gonna sell that loan. It's just, you own the secondary market, you can't hypothecate against it, you can't sell partials on it, it becomes a dirty loan. And you can't just fix it day five. It doesn't get fixed that way.

You have to back up and start over. And we get emotional about this because we see this day in, day out, from people who listen to our show. **David Putz:** See us on social media, and come to conferences. So, guys, if you're doing this kind of stuff, we're doing this not to say you're doing a bad job. We're showing you what you could be doing differently. **David Putz:** Alright, and you can hook up with Shane after this, we have his bio in the link below. **David Putz:** Hook up with Shane, ask him questions how he does it. Maybe you may say, well, I can't find buyers. Maybe you're doing the wrong path.

**David Putz:** Shane can help, right? So, we're gonna link his stuff in the bio. Please feel free to reach out to it. Shane, are you charging points to these borrowers at all? **Shane Perkins:** So, I do double closes on everything that I do. So, the, we make our spread, on, you know, the… **Shane Perkins:** the price difference on the house, in some cases, the difference on the interest rate in some cases, and a combination in some cases. So, it's a little bit different in each one of them. **David Putz:** Okay. **Shane Perkins:** But what you just said, David, you know, about finding the buyer… **Shane Perkins:** It is far more difficult to find the perfect buyer for a single home than it is to go out and find a buyer and help them get into their dream.

**David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** It's far more… it's far harder. **David Putz:** I would say the biggest hurdle with it is find the financing to do it. **David Putz:** Right? Find the money to be able to do things. That's probably the hardest part, where, how do I come up with $500,000 to go buy 3 homes for a buyer? **David Putz:** How would you walk someone through the first, you know, month of doing this? **David Putz:** How would they do that? **Shane Perkins:** Well, it's all focus on the buyer, right? You know, we give the… and that's what I teach, is focus on that buyer, focus on their dreams, focus on their debt-to-income ratio, what they can afford, guide them in the right direction, because that's what we're doing, right? **Shane Perkins:** And everybody wants champagne on a beer budget.

Everybody does. But at the end of the day, it's that security that means everything to a family. And, by the way, it means more to the females in the family than it does the males. **David Putz:** Mmm. **Shane Perkins:** Once they have that security, life is good. And like they say, if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy, right? **David Putz:** True. **Shane Perkins:** And that security just means everything to these folks. And when you get somebody into a home, that it may not be, **Shane Perkins:** you know, the champagne that they were wanting in the beginning, but I can tell you 100% of the time, and I mean it, the house they end up in, that they always… we are so happy that this is the house that we ended up… this is the house that we got.

And the reason why is because we don't force our clients to refinance. **Shane Perkins:** But if they do go refinance, they cut their payment in half, especially when we had interest rates in the 3s and 4s. **Shane Perkins:** They can go cut their payment in half, and if you're pushing your debt-to-income ratio at a higher interest rate, and then all of a sudden you go and you do the work that it takes and refinance out of that thing in a couple of years, and you get that lower house payment. **David Putz:** Mmm. **Shane Perkins:** Your lifestyle is so much better than it is. **David Putz:** Yes.

**Shane Perkins:** going, you know, getting a good interest rate and maxing out your DTI from day one, and these people, they're just excited to get into a home, you know? **David Putz:** Yeah. **Nathan Turner:** That's great. **Shane Perkins:** If they have no… **Shane Perkins:** upside, in other words, you know, they already got a great interest rate, I would say buy less house. That's what I would say. **Shane Perkins:** Debt-to-income ratio's so high. **David Putz:** We've had a couple people on our show talk about this, and this is a crucial point. You're not expecting people to hold a whatever interest rate.

Let's say it's 12, for the hell of it, right? A 12% interest rate for 30 years. **David Putz:** You're hoping in 2, 3, 5, 6 years, they're gonna probably refinance, because why wouldn't they? **Shane Perkins:** We can help them with that, too. **David Putz:** Right? **Shane Perkins:** Dude, you're not… **David Putz:** But you're not planning on holding for 30 years? **David Putz:** That's not the goal! **Shane Perkins:** I never have. The longest I think I've held anything is… **Shane Perkins:** 48 months? I mean, the longest. Wow. And… but they were a 30-year term. **Shane Perkins:** They can refinance, or they can sell, you know? **David Putz:** So guys, you can see the fact that, well, I'm charging 9, 10, 11, they can't afford that.

Listen, they only have to afford it for a period of time where they can go get a bank loan. **Shane Perkins:** Can they afford the house going up in $100,000 in 2 years? I mean, because that's what's gonna happen. **David Putz:** Pay an extra $500 a month. Who cares? **David Putz:** Yeah. **Nathan Turner:** And then, are you ever selling these loans, or are you just hanging on to them and letting them pay off? **Shane Perkins:** So, we wrap everything that we do, and so you said something about subject to. We still do a lot of Subject 2 deals, because the fact is that there's a lot of homes out there with good interest rates on them.

We do a lot of seller financing deals. And so, when… but the difference is this. **Shane Perkins:** there's teachers out there right now in the sub-2 world that are teaching, you know, go after low-equity homes, and go after the realtors, and go after all that, and at the end of the day, and I'm not bad-mouthing realtors at all, I do a ton of business with realtors. **Shane Perkins:** But, you gotta educate your realtor on how to present to the seller. You gotta educate their broker. Somebody's gonna put a kink in the deal somewhere, and it's just more hassle than it's worth. So what I… what I tell sellers.

**Shane Perkins:** I'll buy your house. You listed it with an agent. **Shane Perkins:** good luck. I hope you get everything that you want for it, but if you don't sell it, come to me, we'll buy the house afterwards, but I'm, you know, we'll save the agent's commission, because usually, that's the discount that I'm looking for. I'm not trying to steal your house from you, but, you know, but that, but, you know, but that means a lot. **Shane Perkins:** And so, good luck. Go sell the house. If you don't sell it, come back to me, you know? And so. **David Putz:** So you're getting the financing, and then you're wrapping that financing you're getting **David Putz:** Right, with this.

So you're getting a bigger lender to give you a lower interest rate, you're then taking that with the new buyer and giving them a little bit higher, point or two higher, and you're making a difference. You're still paying a sub-two, but I think what me and Nathan stressed, and guys, if you're listening, listen closely, we're not… **David Putz:** We're not upset with people who are wrapping their own debt. What we get frustrated with is, when you wrap a third person's debt **David Putz:** and create a new loan under Grandma Sue, who trusts you to make all her forward payments, and if you don't, or you get out of the game, or something happens to your buyer, you're in tough waters.

Where Shane did totally different is, this is his own debt. And he's wrapping his own debt. **David Putz:** Right? **Shane Perkins:** I'm responsible for that death. **Nathan Turner:** Exactly. **Shane Perkins:** If my buyer quits paying, that's my problem, not my… **David Putz:** Where other people, if the buyer skips out, they just say, hey, it's not my debt, I know I took over, but hey, the seller has to care about it. **Shane Perkins:** Well, they're spending that money every single month, right? You know, they do 2 or 3 deals, and they're living on that income, and the fact is that what they don't realize is **Shane Perkins:** You can get somebody out of a house, you can keep that mortgage current, and go resell the house to somebody else, and get another down payment and go on, but a lot of people are operating at such a, you know, at such thin margins that they don't have the ability to… **Shane Perkins:** to make those payments.

And so they, you know, change their phone number and go do business somewhere else, and leave people hanging, and what's gonna happen is it's gonna get us, as investors, legislated out of business. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** I was in Texas when they made lease options. **David Putz:** Thank you. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** I was down there when they did that, and there's a reason why, and it was one guy. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** Was one guy. **Shane Perkins:** And, you know, so… And also, yeah, they did debt for, or excuse me, contract for deeds.

**Shane Perkins:** in Texas either. **Nathan Turner:** Not anymore, yeah. **David Putz:** So this is worth stressing, guys, wrapping your own debt, making you responsible, so if his buyer stops paying him, he's still on the full hook for the debt that's owed to his financer. Where if people are doing sub-2s of someone else's debt, they're really not on the hook, they can walk away and kind of whatever, right? **David Putz:** But Shane doing this, so when you're doing this kind of stuff, you don't need to have your own capital to do this. You just need to find a lender who's gonna be willing to give you a debt, and you're able to charge 2, 3, 4 points more.

That's it. **Shane Perkins:** Simple. **Nathan Turner:** Yep. **Shane Perkins:** Yeah, I don't use my credit, I don't use my cash, and I haven't for years. **Shane Perkins:** Yeah. There's no reason to. There's too much money out there, there's too many people with these down payments and that need this service, and so… **Shane Perkins:** There's… you can have as much business as you want. **David Putz:** I'm seeing the… I'm seeing the YouTube and the podcast **David Putz:** comments fill up with one major question. How do you find the lender who's willing to give you money at 4, 5, 6, 10% so you can leverage it up? How are you… how do you find that person for… so if someone's listening and saying, I can't borrow money at 6%, what would you suggest for them? **Shane Perkins:** I would say there, you know, there's some secret sauce in there, right? You gotta… you gotta pay some dues to be able to get that kind of information, and that's why I sell the course and teach **Shane Perkins:** how to do this.

But, it's… **Shane Perkins:** that's not the hardest part of this deal at all. It's really easy. **David Putz:** Yeah. **David Putz:** It, it, it's… **Nathan Turner:** Right? **David Putz:** So, again, we'll put his stuff in the information below, feel free to reach out to Shane. We've had a couple talks with him, he's a great guy. **David Putz:** Old school man, right, with really, really good knowledge. **Nathan Turner:** Solid, yeah. **David Putz:** Yeah, so… and we're… if you can encourage him to get down at DME, he'll be down there as well. So, he'll be down at DME in Nashville, hanging out with us, talking, shaking hands, and whatnot.

So, Nathan, why don't you ask our famous last question? **Nathan Turner:** Yeah, it was… **David Putz:** Bob. **Nathan Turner:** We love it when we get people with this much experience, because **Nathan Turner:** When you've seen so many different market cycles, and you've seen all these different strategies and everything else, it just lends to a perspective that a newbie's not gonna have. **Nathan Turner:** So, we're really glad that you're here, Shane, and now we're curious, with your history, with your background, with everything you've done, and with what you're involved in right now. **Nathan Turner:** What's your crystal ball? What do you see coming up in the next 12, 24 months, as far as, like, what's gonna be the best real estate strategy? How are things going to shake out here? What are we looking at? **Shane Perkins:** Well… I'm biased.

I think the best real estate strategy is the reverse… the reverse wrap. **Shane Perkins:** But I am biased, but it just simplifies everything. If you want to work 60, 70 hours a week, go do some, you know, wholesaling, or the other strategies, but this one will give you a life as well, as making money. But I believe that, **Shane Perkins:** You know, during the crash, we had a shortage of new homes being built. **Shane Perkins:** The population has done nothing but grow, and we had a few good years there, from, say, 2013 to… **Shane Perkins:** you know, 2020, roughly, and… Yep. **Shane Perkins:** and so building kind of got back on track, but I think from… from a global perspective, and I say global, I mean United States, I believe we've got a housing shortage.

**David Putz:** Leave them. **Shane Perkins:** vendors are still tight on lending to builders. There's some institutional money out there for that, but I think that there's definitely a housing shortage. **Shane Perkins:** I don't like the trends like tiny homes and different things like that, I just don't… **David Putz:** That is… **Shane Perkins:** Sustainable, that's personal. **Shane Perkins:** But I think interest rates are going to decrease. You know, I definitely don't want to get political, but I think some changes… things are going to change at the Fed here in the coming few months, and I just see the economy making a turn for the better.

I think we're. **David Putz:** Sweet! **Shane Perkins:** I think short-term, I think there's some people hurting right now, with some house payments that got in too much house, and I think that, if there's not buyers out there, I would recommend them finding somebody that's been doing Sub 2 for a long time and getting their credit, you know, because that's a real thing. **David Putz:** I'm not… **Shane Perkins:** those mortgage payments, you get a foreclosure, you're going. **David Putz:** Oh. **Shane Perkins:** A for a while, but if you come… if you come across somebody that's been doing Sub 2 for a long time and not missed payments, I've done probably a couple hundred of those deals, and I've never missed a payment on a single house.

**Shane Perkins:** a year of on-time payments is gonna do dramatic things for their credit, as long as they're maintaining the other sides of it, and they may not be able to live in their house, but we can fix that problem. We can get them into a smaller house, you know, a lot of times we can help them with the equity, so I personally see… **Shane Perkins:** things… you know, our youth… my… it's like my kids. My kids can't afford to buy a home, and they're… they make good money. **Shane Perkins:** But… But they just… the interest rates and the price of homes is… it's just crazy. **Shane Perkins:** And I write… Nathan, you're in.

**David Putz:** I don't. **Shane Perkins:** Yeah. So I know, you know, I don't know details, but I've heard that, you know, Canada's, like, second on the list in the world for home affordability issues. **David Putz:** Very expensive. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** Yeah. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah, it's tough. **Shane Perkins:** And so… and there's regions of the U.S. that are like that. I mean, Colorado, Utah, California, you know, certain states. My son leased a home that was built in the 50s. **Shane Perkins:** Three-bedroom, one-bath home with a 1-car garage, little wood-framed house.

**Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** And it was near the university in Denver. **Shane Perkins:** $550,000. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** Now, the rent on it was only 2 grand. **David Putz:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** but $550,000? How, you know, how can a couple afford that? And I've been saying this for a while. **Nathan Turner:** Yeah. **Shane Perkins:** If you take a median income in any geographic location, and you apply a DTI rate. **David Putz:** Excuse me now. **Shane Perkins:** And then you look at the median income of homes in that geographic location, it doesn't add up.

Something's not right. And so it takes, you know, it takes dual-family incomes to be able to pay for these homes. A lot of times they have ADUs in the backyard and things like that, and something's got to change. **David Putz:** And I think it's gonna have to start with interest rates, and I think the current administration. **Shane Perkins:** recognizes that, and I think rates are gonna decrease, but what it's also gonna spur is, because we've got a housing shortage, is another boom in real estate prices. **David Putz:** Wow. **Nathan Turner:** that I just don't… **Shane Perkins:** You know, something's gotta break sometime.

**David Putz:** That's awesome. **Nathan Turner:** Interesting. **David Putz:** Shane, that… I mean, you spoke from factual, historical knowledge, right? It's… we all talk crystal balls, which we all don't know. **David Putz:** But based on what you've experienced, and what you've seen, and the cycles you've been through. **David Putz:** you get a good feeling, right? We've been calling since 2020 for something to happen, and it hasn't happened. And I think COVID kind of pushed a lot of stuff off. **David Putz:** But it's due for something to change, and I agree with you. So, well, Shane, thank you so much, man.

It is a pleasure having you on. **Shane Perkins:** Pleasure being on? **David Putz:** We'll see you down at DME, guys. Again, his information's below. Make sure you reach out to him. He is an awesome guy, awesome information, real-life guy, does the business. This isn't just a teaching thing, this is him giving back to his people. We learned from before, he's now passing it down for everyone else, so… **David Putz:** Well, everyone, me and Nathan will see you soon. Hope all is well. Make sure you check out the AI Mastermind we got in the DME, and we'll see everyone soon. **Nathan Turner:** involved.

**Shane Perkins:** Well, David and Nathan, thank you guys very much. I enjoyed the afternoon, and look forward to doing it again sometime. **David Putz:** Awesome. Yeah, hold on one second..