Should I Start Investing in Real Estate Mortgage Notes? | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: Should I Start Investing in Real Estate Mortgage Notes? with ​‪@theDesiArnaz‬ Dave's Goals and Plans: - Started investing in mortgage notes in 2010, began heavily in 2011 - Created automated spreadsheet calculators and formulas to analyze 50-100 assets in 15 minutes - Built a due diligence portal with lookup tables and automation tools to avoid manual data entry errors - Only purchases notes on properties with $50,000+ property value, avoids certain states and counties like Cuyahoga County Ohio - Developed a network resource portal with servicers, REO agents (10,000 nationwide), and attorneys by state Key Recommendations: - Understand your analysis calculator completely before using it - don't use tools you can't explain or modify yourself - Find what you're good at and lean on others for complementary skills rather than trying to do everything yourself - Attend conferences and join mastermind groups to build legitimate industry connections and identify real players vs 'joker brokers' - Ask three key questions to verify seller legitimacy: Are you principal seller? Who is the servicer? Who is the collateral storage manager? - Verify ownership by checking county records for the last recorded assignment before making offers - Use REO agents over BPOs for property valuations (BPOs only 35-38% accurate) and connect with local investors for property assessments - Learn what the tape headers mean (next payment due, last payment received, P&I) before plugging numbers into calculators Topics Discussed: - Real estate mortgage note investing fundamentals - Automation tools and spreadsheet analysis for note evaluation - Building community and networking in the note investing space - Due diligence processes and identifying legitimate sellers vs brokers - Property valuation methods and working with servicers and REO agents - State-specific challenges and which markets to avoid - Career transition from landlording to note investing Guest Insights: - The note investing community operates as 'cooperation competitors' with high collaboration and resource sharing - Manual data entry creates costly errors - automation is critical for scaling note analysis - Broker legitimacy is a major risk for new investors; verification through county records and community references is essential - Geographic constraints matter significantly - certain counties have excessive recording delays and should be avoided and uh we're just lucky to have dave puts on dave's been in the game guys for a long time i think got in in 2010 started getting into it heavily in 2011.

he's done several several transactions he's played with all the biggest players in the game dave you can just go ahead and introduce yourself to the crew tell them who dave was you know prior to 2010 and then you know give him a little bit of your background and um sure so i've been in this space for since like 2010 uh i worked for a large fund at one point uh where i was doing the due diligence on it and just trying to figure out what it was about um helping a friend out turn into a much bigger game right they went from 100 000 to a couple billion in assets um i wish i had more equity in the company but i didn't that's okay so what i found out was that i didn't understand through due diligence and i had to learn by doing but what i did find out that i i want to share share with you guys is find out what you're good at and drive at home as much as you can right if you're not good at something lean on someone who is and and balance it out right i'm a spreadsheet person i'm a visual screen person where i did the nitty gritty stuff on a paper is not something i look at so it's flip side is the calculator that does talk about awesome stuff i'm a spreadsheet person so i actually created the exact same formulas and calculators you got to do in a spreadsheet so that i can punch in numbers from a from a tape and automatically figure out what i need to have so i don't gotta mess with these different keys i know what a p and i is and the calculator may not have that key and i don't care if it does doesn't because i'm looking at a spreadsheet right so i literally on a spreadsheet and sure does the same thing you can write excel formula that'll come out with the exact number you're looking for my pv equation same as the calculator equates to what my pvm calculator would be but on the spreadsheet and you can do an entire column straight down so how did i get into this i was a landlord for a while that really really hated being a landlord um i struggled with it but i was good with strategy it's good groups um just tired of dealing with people in that kind of spell came across it through the flip side of it and then in 2010 joined up my buddy um and started doing due diligence back then we're buying at 35 cents on first second for between five and eight cents ridiculously low awesome right today flip side a little bit more expensive however what we learned over time and this is huge is the community of node investor leans on each other on a constant basis we're all cooperation competitors by the end of the day it's always helpful for everyone to kind of connect um because of skill sets so what we've done in in the past is to connect people through our facebook group through webinars but also going to conferences i encourage you guys if you haven't been to one just go to one it may be a little overwhelming so in 2012 i went to my first conference and i knew nobody and i saw this group of people who stood around and felt like i was an outsider and after sudden over time i realized that i wasn't becoming an outsider i actually came in the inside rather quickly and just being honest in who you are so i turned around in children 15 because in 2012 when i started buying notes i bought my personal name didn't know any better just wanted to get in i bought a few notes for under 10 000 it was great made some money listen how can i do this even bigger so we grew by 2015 we're running webinars we were we were into an education what i was doing was i was finding fields that i didn't understand and sharing with people right i didn't buy cfds let me bring on people who buy contra for deeds let's share with everybody so we started doing that um and then eventually moved on and on we've now created automation tools because what we found was in 2015-16 was a lot of people in our space were doing manual data points and i'm sure you guys have been there before where you put a long data point in the spot decimal point or you forgot to add a decimal point and all those kind of things can make huge mistakes right if you forget to change the interest rate on a loan your pvs could be wrong and all those little things that go on so what we ended up doing is automating where i can literally run a calculator and what i do is i go to i have a due diligence portal which i plug in i get all my data points from a property from different kind of sources i plugged it into my calculator and i can go through 50 to 100 assets in a matter of 15 minutes and get a bid number all based on automation tools and for me that's valuable why i'm not going to remember what the foreclosure costs are are in ohio off top of my head i'm not going to remember what this is but i do remember the fact that if it's performing my servicer fee is going to be different than if not performing right so what is a lookup table and i started using a lookup table and using row numbers to change formulas and became better and better with spreadsheets so if you're not familiar with spreadsheets right i would lean on someone who is or reach out and find out automation spreadsheets that can be built for you right you can create a spreadsheet that runs the pv equation for a percentage and all you do is change the percentage to the top row and the entire column changes and you'll be able to tell it immediately which one should i bid on which one should i not bid on right and you can do a subtraction of the p i for your servicing costs you 20 30 whatever service you're with so what we end up doing is we built the portal and then we provide services such as resources right other investors in the space servicers what their fee schedule is what states they're licensed in so if you buy an asset you know what services are all open for that business in that state attorneys um and we also went into reo agents we have about 10 000 reo agents nationwide that i utilize other than bpos at the fun level they're ranging between 35 and 38 accuracy and bpos and for me that's devastating because if i'm buying an asset outside my backyard that's tough if that value is way off because you lean on somebody i i was really fearing that so what we want to do is find an reo agent versus a bpo and have a conversation or find an investor who's local toll property and have a conversation if i reach out to you guys and they're the property three minutes from your house and say hey can you just give me help here i promise you'd probably say hey yeah i'll be buying tomorrow i'll take a couple pictures i know the area utilizing the network of investors is key to understanding what values are conditions of properties and feeling comfortable versus a random bpo so what do we do next so we're going to be building out a big calculator that kind of help people but your big calculator should be something you understand right i can give you a calculator dez can give you a calculator and you get lost and i guarantee you if you have to change something you're gonna go back to us and say hey what do i do here and that's one of the keys of knowing that you should if not anything else understand how the calculator works now we got into the space buying first i bought non-performing performing and some seconds i'm not a big cfd person just my cup what i'm looking for if a value of assets over 50 000 in property value we'll look at it there's not many cfds that are 60 70 000 value but that's okay and i have reasons why i don't buy above 50.

and that's okay for me too certain states i don't buy in certain states i do raise the certain states i'm sure desi and i don't buy him because of things we've gone through there's certain counties in ohio karaoke county i won't buy it took me six months to get d recorded come on right and it gets rubbed the wrong way where you lost a half a year it's just ridiculous right that one hit home hard dude we were just dealing with kaya hoga county like in the last couple weeks man oh here we go again yeah it's it's up there with cook county right it's just you start learning these things and granted i understand some people say well i don't know which states are bad ask hey what do you guys what do you and i have no problem telling you what states i avoid why because it doesn't change anything for you you don't know my numbers you don't know my system you're not going to get the same bidding i'm going to get and i have better relationships with a lot of the sellers because i've been around for a while they trust me right so for those of your new new investors the biggest thing is understanding this tape that comes out right is these headers what is the next payment due date what's the last payment received mean and understand these headers so you can plug them into the calculator if you don't know what p and i is because it says monthly payment you can't put calculator so understand those headers the next thing in the shame is the system and the fear of buying your first asset is overwhelming leaning on others talking to people and collaborating and saying hey patrick hey dez do you know you know this person is he legit yeah right or i don't know who they are because a lot of time you get sucked into brokers and that's the tough part because we don't know if that joker broker is a joker broker or something we just don't know hey dave what's a joker broker good question joker broker somebody says i have assets for still who whose emails out there wants some and you put on there you'll probably see our facebook thing going are you a principal seller what that means is that are you the owner of the note because if i'm buying and save from patrick and patrick says yeah yeah i got assets and they go to patrick and make an offer patrick then goes and if he doesn't own it has to go to desi and go hey i have an offer in your asset i'm looking to make an offer on this thing and what happens is desi may not own it now it goes to april now and all of a sudden the asset never was actually available or it was ready or it was available last year and someone was trying to collecting email addresses yeah so that frustration comes back to it right it's just knowing who your seller is so sometimes it's difficult to deal with brokers sometimes you're legit yeah you got to know you got to know who the legit ones are and like that's going to the conferences and showing up on the on the mastermind calls and the podcasts and everything else to figure out who are the the real players in the game and there are some there are some good ones right there absolutely right so i think brokers is a big thing for new people because they think he got exclusive tape that came on a facebook linkedin email thing and they said oh but you have to ask questions so i'm gonna give you three questions i ask my sellers right are you principal seller if they're principal salary they know their principal seller also asked them who is the servicer for this loan if you own the note you'll know who's servicing the note or you can look at your your data and find out the last thing is i ask who's a collateral storage manager now sounds like a fancy word but where's the collateral help oh i don't know you don't know or you can find out from it right if they don't know this information it's weird and if they go to the seller and say hey who's servicing new it's a weird question as a seller to find this kind of questions out so it's kind of things i look for to find out if the last person is legit the other way to find out is go to the county records and see the last assignment that's recorded we're talking before about recordings i can look and find out who's recording last and go hey dez do you is this your company yep it's my company right no it's not it's different different state well then why is this assignment in a different name so you can find out who owned the note without being getting into it so our portal does one of those things where it can actually pull down the owner's name email address it also pulls down annual taxes so we can use that data not only to run our calculator because you need to know the annual tax amount for when you're buying a non-performer because while you're foreclosing you're going to have to pay taxes unfortunately when you sell it the tax aren't free the proper taxes per se yeah so i do a lot of stuff in spreadsheets because it's easier for me and i can quickly change numbers right if you can run things to a calculator great it's whatever works for you right and if you need help with spreadsheets i i i've done some crazy stuff with spreadsheets that i shouldn't have done and probably took me two hours to figure out and i'm like great it's done forever but we automate all our processes use spreadsheets one thing we've learned over the years too is when you're making offers to sellers make sure you're making indicative offers on everything you could possibly think of i'm going to give you one quick tip four's place insurance we got in bad spot we actually bought us for property the fourth place insurance was actually there and the first place insurance expired when the loan sold unfortunately the loan sold the policy collapsed and we could not file a claim we lost thirty thousand dollars on a deal uh we bought it for 60 we're gonna turn around we actually had to sell for 30.

we're going to make about by myself about 110 120 but the first place insurance so one of my key questions i ask i have 13 of them is what kind of forced place insurance if any is on this property and i want to know another key one is property pressurization photos especially with the northeast right if that property isn't and they winterize it they have to have property photos and that's a way to see inside the property without being inside the property because you can't see inside the property even with a bpo but if the seller says oh no i don't know what you're talking about it's vacant and it's in wisconsin for two years and you haven't done a proper preservation photos has it been winterized no go i ain't touched nothing no don't want it either they're lying to you or the property's a mess right that's some things i've learned by hitting hard right so i have great connections and i hear from stories from everyone i'm connected with all time and crazy part is we don't hear all the good stuff you have to hear the bad stuff right let me tell you this let me tell you that but that makes me a better buyer right when we learn the fact that ohio the legal balance cannot be the attorney fees because there's attorney fees and there's uh court fees two different numbers in ohio you cannot add the attorney fees onto your legal balance whoa they changed my calculator because i was adding on those fees well you learn this by doing things and running into counties are bad you know it's crazy ohio yeah so over the last 10 years you learn little stuff right with this random problem the assignment launched didn't match i've never had a loan where the assignment launched it didn't match unless this doesn't work talk to attorneys it does didn't know that i had no problem saying i don't know that because i never ran into it yeah but sharing the information is key so even in the situation you guys get into that we've that you think we've all seen post on social media spread it around because some people have and some people haven't seen it no matter how many deals they have what uh you know that's one of the good things dave that i know uh that i know about you is that you are adamant that um people who are playing playing the game well uh share with one another and and it's too it's too open and there's too many assets there's too much opportunity to even consider being competitors and there's too many people getting into this if there's enough for everybody to eat but it's like why would i want to make the mistake that someone's already made four or five times prior it can just say hey dude don't make this mistake this is one thing you should keep an eye out for and uh instead of instead of losing money on it on a deal or or having to learn the the hard way you know but uh it on that note dave if if people just want to uh absorb information like people do they're reading books they're watching youtube videos they're joining coaching groups they're showing up on mastermind i know that um you and nathan yep who we know well and we've done plenty of business with over the years but uh you guys do sort of like a webinar yep is that every week every other week every every other friday in our facebook group we actually run a webinar that just talks about different subjects we have a youtube channel there's all the webinars but yeah we talk about the one thing we're bringing up this week is the point of coincidence is with joe kennedy we're talking about ir yield and roi right i calculate things on irr where some people calculating yields my plans are i'm not going to hold to maturity so i don't care what the yield is i'm probably gonna sell it in two to three years or five years so i want to calculate my return during the time i hold it versus to maturity right because yield calculates the maturity but if i'm only holding it for four years and the maturity is 20 years down the line my annual return is gonna be different with a yield formula than it is if i'm going to sell it to you patrick in 10 years right it's a different kind of mindset because you've got to realize the fact that you're most likely even if you're buying ir or your ira account you're probably going to sell it before maturity happens or the borrowers that pay off and most of the time that irr's number is higher return than a yield number don't understand why i don't understand the math hopefully joe explain us next friday right in our facebook group but i just it's weird how that different number is even with a balloon because i'm going to sell it to april see here at 10 yield in four years i'm not selling for the balance alone i'm going to sell it to her for 10.

i'm gonna buy it for 12 for that four years three years whatever i'm gonna do it and i bid it based on that return versus bidding on yield right and make sure your calculations your calculator can be changeable right i've chained my calculator a thousand times as i change and update things right stash limitations comes into play oh that changed i gotta make sure just that um your foreclosure fees change your timeline changes um all these things change and you gotta make sure you're on top of stuff so roi calculation is uh just it's a simple phrase it's your payment times 12 or how many months are you buy by purchase price roi is a very simple way to look at things but it's not accurate a lot of people do that right i don't bid on bpo i don't base them be uh upb i don't bid based on roi because it really comes down to what goes in your pocket yield is in your pocket every year right i don't care if yield equates to a 20 upb or 90 the return is and what drives the yield is the coupon rate if that's a six percent or two percent or 10 percent your your returns can be your bid price to be different because the yield being low a two percent coupon rate and i have a spreadsheet shows this is priced if you bid an asset at seventy percent of upv two different ones same numbers and one's a two percent ones and eight percent your bid price will dramatically change your yield will change because the interest rate's so low to get a two percent up to a ten returner you have to be that dramatically lower i'm sure i confuse a lot of people i was laughing so hard in my i was laughing in my head a little bit dave when you said well you know like over the years you know my calculator changes right and i i was laughing at my head thinking what do you what do you mean your calculator is not buying it thirty percent of you people yeah all right so give me a break give me one i'll break for one second i'm just going to have desi yeah yeah okay yeah i'm here so uh dave tell me yes what is it that you have you mentioned something about a um uh sounded like a thought of a program sure might be able to tap into sure so what we have is a due diligence portal that's gonna get blown up out over the years we're hoping right one of the things we first did is i'm sure you do the same thing is i need data for properties right annual tax amount has it been listed recently what are the avms meaning what's the value from zillow or trulia or this and collaborating together what's the what is the tax assessment value is it listed for foreclosure has it not right and all that data can be pulled from all these different public and private websites soar portal one of the features is you put it in a tape it goes grabs the information and pulls it back right you can put one address in here or a bulk either way right okay you can also go get agents you can put in four or five addresses or a single in a return you know oreo agents local to that property address you'll get the email address phone number and all that good stuff um it also has resources i have to let next note conferences coming up you'll see a you know date and time kind of thing and a way to register and it's a way to kind of get the information and then you could take a due diligence portal and then download to another spreadsheet and plug into a calculator however you want to do it right because we have the beginner series just like you guys do and we have a mastermind weekly group that works on bidding building big calculators because the bid calculator is your bread and butter to your business if that makes sense right if you don't have a big calculator start with what dez is saying is this the yield formula right that's great for performing loans great that's what you want to use right by using a spreadsheet that i use on a calculator different situation same results right right so the portal will eventually help you guys be able to process data and bring it down to a spot where you can analyze it because you can't analyze a non-performing note without knowing what the annual tax amount is so how do we find your portal sure you can go to our website jkpoldings.com jkp portal dashboard i'm sorry make sure i have that right um so i'll put in the comments for you guys okay good yeah i was going to ask you i was just going to type into the comments but uh yeah that's a little diagram we're actually going to be going live hopefully next week where it's working a few more bugs um it works pretty much everything it's just little things here and there which are funky that i'm just trying to clean up i'm trying to be really precise on when i launch it well you guys can definitely tune in check it out the resource list is awesome there some of them are free like your service to comparison chart is free go in and go hey i got a profit in tennessee who's licensed there and you can look down you see their fee schedule the whole works right but that's all free now if you want to do that we're gonna it would be a charge to do these property look-ups um and whatnot and we'll work with destiny give you guys discounts but you get like first 45 credits free to play with it and get used to it because with any system it's it's yeah always yeah change yeah yeah so that's it there jkpholdings.com jkp dash portal yup that's the website kind of advertising it and i'll bring it to the portal.jkp holdings um i'm not good marketing hopefully i get better at it but i'm you know i think that's one of my weaknesses but i lean on people who are better that's what i was gonna say you gotta lean on somebody else you know that's it that is the name of the game out here by the way making alliances with people even within our own community i i encourage our guys make alliances with people that you meet just here on saturdays and we have our own private group as well we have a facebook group we have a private group as well you know so uh i ask people to plug into that well dave you have shared a ton of information let's see if we have anybody with any questions yeah please don't ask okay i have one and it kind of goes it kind of go hey dave are you doing this kind of goes with uh with what desi showed a little bit earlier about how to how to sell a note uh kind of like you know if somebody's in a position where they don't actually have the money but here's the question uh makes sense numbers wise the numbers that we did whatever the the spread is right but here's the thing i remember somebody like david and these guys asked me a thousand questions i don't have a clue all i did is i i placed a i parked my interest with desi's note and i had a bunch you know i'm hoping that i'm gonna get the somebody else is gonna pay me the difference but i run into somebody like dave and all of a sudden he thinks that i'm a joker broker and pretty much i'm going to be so how do we over you know what's the deal there well hey dave dave can i just can i take that yeah please okay that's that's more of a question that you want to talk to me about sal okay that than dave so and i know that you and i i think we have something scheduled for next week if you didn't already yeah yeah so maybe you want to bring that up and i can talk to you about how to address how to how to position yourself okay you know that's what you're asking like how do i position myself so that i don't look like a joker broker exactly exactly yeah yeah nobody wants to do that perfect perfectly are you direct to the seller whole argument and question we ask people because if you're direct to the seller if you are brokering a note that desi and i are selling and you know us very well if if your potential buyer says hey i need to see this or what who's servicing it where's the collateral file held where's this and he starts asking these hard questions so desi and i would have positioned you as our broker to know how to answer those questions and if not and if not be willing to set up a three-way phone call between the buyer and your seller because you are direct to that seller and you can put a quick phone call together because you know them and it all works out that way it's the joker broker thing whereas people are claiming things that they aren't really true to they don't really know the seller they're two three brokers down the line in a daisy they can't provide you the information and dave's just saying seasoned folks will ask some more serious questions like that to a new broker to find out real quickly within three minutes on the phone is this guy a joker or not that's sad perfect thank you that makes okay great thanks dave i got a question this is chris go ahead chris so when you're if we if you're if you're taking down a performing note let's say your exit strategy is some date in the future how do you calculate the depreciation value on the note at that date in the future so what we do with our calculations is to figure out a yield formula right at that point in time if i'm going to sell you chris at 10 yield in three years i can quickly figure out what it is using even the calculator does show right in three years 36 months what will be using the formula the the pv at that time i'm going to know how many payments are left right based on the formula based on what charity d i might know the number periods i'm going to know what the interest rate i'm going to sell it at right i need to know the pv so we could plug everything in and stop the pv at that date does that make sense yes right yeah so if you figure it all out pv is is a simple formula right all pv does is it provides you with the present value of the loan based on the rate which we know number payments left the payment amount and after the balloon right but if we have all those three we can solve for the fourth one which is pv so i'm going to sell it to you in three years i can figure it out and say okay while i'm holding over three years what's my return every single year for those three years it's a new strategy a lot of people actually learning recently it's and we talked to some seasoned people who are like oh i never thought about that so i don't use yield as much unless it's a situation that i'm literally gonna hold on it and it's a 15 percent returner then i hold a damn thing on it was 20 years we have a couple like 25 returners guess what i ain't selling a thing yeah i'm going to hold on to it saying you're right goodbye you don't know anything about it right it's fine but somebody's loans where i'm getting 10 12 14 15 percent i'm being willing to sell you here for 10 11.

and that's the key right i can sell to you in six months if i buy it and sell it it works that way too good question chris i appreciate that good day thanks smitty what's up bud minnie was on our last week's yes for those who are on the webinar last week i i i'm running i'm going to bed with a buddy of mine that the niners making fun of the playoffs then the giants i gotta keep my beard and the niners lost last week smitty was on her webinar uh last week to talk about things and i was able to shave thanks [Music] what's happening uh question uh two-part question what do you have you purchase lease options and if you have what do you think about them or if you haven't purchased them what do you think about lease options on table sure i have no problem with lease options right to me it's similar to a contract for d right my problem is that most lease option assets are not high value assets we're not talking about 1000 our 200 asset so the problem is if it gets below a 50 000 property value i'm passing on it for that reason right and the reason i pass on is because if i buy a property for 40 and i'd buy it for x dollars and i have repairs to it in the kitchen kitchens never cost you 200 bucks they're gonna cost you a few grand and five grand on a fifty thousand dollar property value versus six grand on a hundred thousand property value right a kitchen that i'm rehabbing is never gonna cost 40 grand right unless it's a multi-million dollar property but a 50 property gets eaten a lot by rehabs and costs um if foreclosure cost in any state is going to be x dollar well i'd rather buy a higher value property where if the 30 000 property value and the foreclosure fee is three grand i'm getting losing 10 right off the top now that thing is worth 60 i'm losing only 5 so that's the only reason um we've bought maybe two or three of them again unless it gets above 50 i don't really often look at them at all okay thank you third question good question and i i like that i like that they they were showing new folks and people who are getting into notes for you know buying their first couple and things that setting a personal investment criteria for your own personal reasons that you stick to is like being a professional gambler that gambles at a casino for a living they don't go in there and make stupid choices and veer from their system you have a system it's dave's investment criteria for whatever reasons they are and one of them is i don't care what the deal looks like how good the numbers sound or anything else if the property value is less than fifty thousand bucks it's off of my radar immediately and i like that because that goes along with what we've been teaching these guys is that build your investment criteria and and also don't waver from it there was a reason why no emotions no emotions right i don't care how great it looks how cute she is how good-looking he is if it doesn't fit what you're looking for and a lot of people patrick great question right because i'm sure a lot of people ask you guys the same question i don't know what i want well i can't help you if you don't know the return you're looking for i can't help you right now states i can help you with this return listen i can beat your one percent saving account is that good i'll give you two percent double make you double your money yeah right but if you don't know your return that's something you have to look internally because then i can't help you if and we've had people go well i want a 50 return well then you know what you let me know when you're getting 50 and i'll give you some money if you're buying bulk right i can buy i can get a 200 return on here there but if you're buying bulk you're not getting that solid numbers and that's okay right you could target 50 but you're not going to get it unless your numbers are wacky right unless you're building your life out there good question so being in this space for long enough i learned to ask questions to people right asking people even if they're the same level or below me i have no problem asking questions so feel free to be open we run the facebook group the friday meetings i do a beginner series i also have a mastermind group real small one right that we just gear up on building these things but no matter what as desi and patrick said is listening to other people in the space is key right doesn't agree to it you can't only look good because dez has had all the experience in the world and he may not run into a situation where he may look at an angle that i don't look at or i may look an angle he doesn't look at it and just learning from everyone is really really key but you need to have someone to look up to to ask the normal questions too as well well that's why we have you here dave and you know we do teach our people that don't look to us to teach you everything look to us to help you make some decisions when you get a tough spot we have had a lot of experience we can point you in the right direction learn from us but learn from dave learn from there right learn from all these guys read these books attend these these events because that's how you become well-rounded and that's how you're going to meet the right people so that you can do some alliances this is a business of who you know far more than what you know it really one of the other one of the really cool things is people ask me i can't find assets when i'm first off there's ton of assets out there second i'll give you a nice little trick you have 51 people on this call i guarantee you there's somebody has called that has an asset they're willing to sell why is nobody asking other investors hey you have an asset that you're looking to sell i'm looking to buy buy a partial buy whatever people don't ask others they look for these big hedge funds like us to come in and give you assets well i'm going to tell you that i made a bill buy a property from say from smitty better than i could buy from desi because smitty needs to get rid of it because he's trying to buy a better asset so asking each other hey you have assets do you have anything you're looking for do you know anyone is key yeah we can we keep telling dave you got to put yourself out there success doesn't come hunt you down right yeah and the good deals and good purchases aren't going to come hunting you down you gotta you gotta you gotta hunt them down but uh speaking of hunting down if you wanna hunt down dave in this group remember guys his uh facebook group is east coast distressed node investing you can go to the east coast of stress no investing join his facebook group and then sign up to get maybe alerts right uh and when you're gonna go live on those uh webinars with nate and uh and then uh jkpholdings.com his website yeah the resources free some are paid he can help you and i'm sure dave is such a giver in the industry that he'd probably even accept a quick phone call from you or an email or respond or whatever it may be guys absolutely guys well my emails in the chat if anyone needs it let me know dez patrick always a pleasure i'm sure i'll see you guys soon give us one more second because we have sort of yes tradition because we really appreciate we really appreciate here thank you dave spending the time and i know you actually rearranged because i messed up rearranged but everybody usually is really grateful for the value that our guests offer i know that they're grateful for you being on here today so we always want to just unmute everybody and give dave a big old thank you awesome that was amazing that's awesome all right guys hey god bless everyone desi thanks dave thanks thanks everybody for joining us and we'll sign off and see you all next saturday thank you guys thank you patrick thank you debbie you.