Note Investing Marketing & Systems with Larry Hoffman | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: Note Investing Marketing & Systems with Larry Hoffman - FULL Dave's Goals and Plans: - Bidding on 23 assets and waiting to see how pricing comes back - Trying to systemize marketing but lacks patience and time due to family commitments - Envious of Larry's consistent marketing and posting on LinkedIn/Facebook - Planning to cover reverse mortgages, wraps, and alternative paper in upcoming content - Completing weeks 1-5 of course and moving into weeks 6-10 covering systems and vendor management Nathan's Goals and Plans: - Observing assets coming out of inventory and second quarter becoming more active - Interested in how transition and pricing will affect buyers in current market - Took Carlton Sheets course initially but suffered from analysis paralysis until mentoring - Invested in mentoring program that paid for itself multiple times over - Working on different approaches to note investing while maintaining similar core methods as Dave Key Recommendations: - Buy on interest rate and yield/IRR, not percentage of UPB or BPO - Learn and adjust business methods - what worked 10 years ago doesn't work in today's market - Everyone should be marketing themselves and their deals - Take mentoring or coaching programs to accelerate from zero to productive investor quickly - Systemize and automate marketing efforts rather than relying on manual work Topics Discussed: - Market inventory shifts post-COVID and hedge fund liquidations - Delinquency trends and their impact on note buying - Alternative note types: reverse mortgages, wraps, seller-financed notes - Difference between 3-4% interest rate loans vs higher yield notes - Diversified Mortgage Expo (DME) conference connecting originators and buyers - Note investing education and mentorship importance - Marketing systems and consistent content creation - Course progression: weeks 1-5 fundamentals to weeks 6-10 systems and strategies Guest Insights: - Larry started in traditional real estate (2006) - rehabbing, lease options, short sales before transitioning to notes - Book 'Be the Bank' by Benjamin Michael Lyons was pivotal in understanding note investing mindset shift - Took significant haircut on first owner-financed note due to lack of knowledge - Mentoring was the 'aha moment' that accelerated his note investing success - Started with multiple real estate strategies before specializing in notes after education how do you Market what's your tricks and whatnot that you use are you using any kind of um boot Suites are you doing it manually how you doing your graphics for those who you encourage those who are buying themselves to do marketing like they're doing now 100 everybody should be 100 marketing either you know like looking at a deal that you're looking at um uh analyzing it uh were passed on right [Music] hey everyone Dave putz from jkp Holdings alongside me as always Mr Nathan Turner hello hello good afternoon I'm in how are you very good very good so another week done um it's starting to get warmer around here in Jersey which is awesome um and I don't know about you but we're seeing assets come out of the woodwork recently it seemed like things are opening up um second quarters becoming uh you know a promptly pair that would probably see some more stuff uh pretty soon we'll see what that looks like um but I'm definitely interested in seeing how transition is and pricing because that's a big thing for us right now is is this worthwhile for people who are you know buying to buy even though inventory is available yeah I actually just Bleak Monday I just put in a fairly large bid on 23 assets and fingers crossed we'll see what happens but uh yeah uh we'll see how pricing comes back it's it's right so buying in that yield or irr and if that interest rates of three or four to get into a 10 that you're looking for or 15 or 20 whatever you look for the discount is deeper and deeper the farther lower that original interest rate is and we try to encourage people to kind of think differently we're still caring about people buying on percentage of upb which if you want us private talk we can have it and how that just doesn't make sense 10 years ago you could could do that because everything is underwater and there was it was a totally different Market yes 10 years ago sure if you want to buy based on percentage of upb in most cases that made sense but in today's market it just doesn't nope learn and adjust and grow or Die the same way you did 10 years ago well so um we just finished up our second five-week course we're going into our six to ten week course with those people who complete the one through five um uh a couple of previous clients have been on here uh we'll actually have uh one of our recent clients kind of share what we talked about from building a bid calculator to due diligence and then the second six five six to ten weeks we'll be talking about systems and uh or organizing your um vendors and managing them how to do that BK and uh also regime notes and partials and whatnot uh some Advanced strategies yeah it's been probably not this has been really awesome of course because it allows us you and I to talk about how our methods are different even though we talk the same talk yeah yeah and we've both been doing this for a number of years now and and it's interesting to see our different different but similar approaches uh you know the same way of getting to point A to point B Point C but just in different ways absolutely with that said um we're talking about alternative investing not just Bank originated notes which we've bought for many many many years one of those unknowns it's one of those weird times where uh inventory is starting to get more and more and so naturally prices should decrease but uh but we'll see what happens we'll see what happens so um I think right now we are looking at his shifts right um we're coming out of covet craziness um we're seeing some hedge funds that release some stuff and and delinquencies are going to start kind of changing right people are not alone again that funds um I know that I've just heard that like Dell was laying off people um don't know what that's going to mean in the long run however I think that when we look at the stuff um delinquency has always been with notes so it's not like a new thing um it's been something that's been around for since mortgage came around um but we are seeing a shift in the inventory I mean you were looking at too right um in the coming weeks we'll be talking about reverse mortgages yeah we'll be talking more about wraps uh originating it and you know buying those kind of things and a different paper because there was billions of dollars in created wraps which is ridiculous in that angles a lot differently than buying these three and four percent interest loads that we've seen the last three four years yeah it helps us uh as note buyers to be able to purchase it helps us because the interest rates a little bit higher they tend to be anyway yeah so it helps us to be able to keep that machine moving those three percent interest rate loans it'll be interesting to see what happens with those over the next few years yes I don't think any of those are coming up available in our world uh but it'll be interesting to see what the approach is for those because that those are they're going to be tough to move yeah and for those who don't know what mean when you're trying to buy three percent loan we always preach on this topic do you never buy a percentage of upb or BPO that doesn't mean anything it's really buying on that interest rate systemizing or stuff yeah um well we also try to systemize our marketing as well or at least I try to and I'm not good at it I don't have the patience for it yeah and to me it's like oh right I did more years ago um but I just don't have the time and energy I got small kids I got a lot going on and it to me it takes a lot of time and effort yeah and if you go on LinkedIn or if you go on Facebook right one of the big things I'm going to bring them on as we talk about this here is I see Larry posting constantly and I'm jealous be honestly I'm jealous of you man and this whole idea of marketing and advertising what you're doing I wish more people did it and I'm amazed at what you're doing it's it's astonishing so we want to bring on here to kind of share a little bit about what you've done the past how you got to what you're doing and why you're doing it maybe we're going to write some tidbits down of what we can do better as uh investors so Larry welcome man thank you for coming this afternoon joining us thanks Dave appreciate it hey hey Nathan thank you hey appreciate that so Larry's been in the space for a long time um he has some great connections and he does some great marketing like before we get into that share a little bit about how would you come across note investing did you take classes I need to learn about it yeah well I've been investing I started investing back in 2006 you know I guess just like traditional um buying properties rehabbing them and selling them um you know doing a bunch of lease options short sales subject twos owner financing I've taken back quite a bit of notes right and so I taking that note back like that was the like my first experience I didn't know what I didn't know because this this note space is an entirely different thing from you know from just like this Market of being self-financed not just seller finance but buying reps and buying reverse mortgages is a huge topic this whole idea can you speak a little bit about this baby of yours DME that's gonna be talking about not just bankriching notes and how those who may not listen those two weeks ago what they're walking into is not going to be a typical note investing conference no exactly and and you know I've been to a lot of conferences over the years and and there's been a ton of talk about non-performing notes because that was a huge huge market for us that I want I don't want to say it's drying up but it's it's not as plentiful as it used to be so we've got to expand we've got to learn we've got to grow and and learn how to do different kinds of notes so a big purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish at DME is I want The Originators to be there as well as the note buyers to be there so that we can come together The Originators have somewhere to sell their product and the buyers have somewhere to buy stuff that's a big meeting of everybody to come together I want people to walk away with deals not just contacts yeah and it's funny we just had a master uh meeting the Minds last Wednesday with a small group of people and from different sectors and they all said the same thing that we're marrying two different huge networks of people that's never really connected before and they love it we love it and it's completely different way of thinking so in the coming weeks we'll be doing more topics about this so you guys can learn a little bit more about it from a legal stance as well as an investment stance so but go get your tickets DME the Diversified mortgage expo.com tickets are live will be in June make sure you get down to Nashville guys yeah it's gonna be awesome you're not big in this I'm trying to get bigger in this but it's not my forte one of the things we try doing is automating um not one of me but kind of that disconnect right um so I eventually wound up uh once again doing mentoring um he's a pretty popular uh guy um and so and it was a significant amount but I've far made that more uh than just that little investment so yeah it was you know it it's having uh taking classes or some type of coaching or some type of mentoring program it 100 you know takes you from you know from zero up to 180 in a relatively short short period of time and that was a thing for me because I was I was um just kind of like him hauling around with it and not really you know doing anything um and then I took the mentoring and then you know it's like I just started getting the deals one after the other and just rehabbing the properties and selling them talking to somebody yesterday and she's she was talking about wanting to get into notes and everything I said you absolutely can and anybody can do that yep however you've got to learn the business because it's not it's straightforward is real estate and there are a lot of nuances and and when we got started 12 14 years ago pricing was such that we could make all kinds of mistakes and we did uh and we still made money enough that we could keep going but in today's market you've got to know what you're doing yeah what yeah 100 and that's the other thing you got to take that that you got to flip that mindset that you are no longer the rehab or you're the bank right and it's still and I still I still have that you know rehab or mentality yeah you know I'm like no no no no I'm the bank I'm the bank I'm the bank and there's there's a you know there's a complete difference between the two yeah yeah I've done the same thing I'm like yeah how does the bank do this okay I'm in the bank the the distraction for a second I saw the feed on LinkedIn feed kind of died per second so again I apologize traditional you know real estate because you have to have a different mindset and you have to get out of that that you're no longer the rehabber you're rehabbing the properties and um but when I when I when I first got started um I did uh did uh do a owner finance note and I sold it but I took a huge haircut because I didn't know like I said I didn't know what I didn't know in order to do this but I never really made that transition um and then it was just funny I I bought a book it's uh be the bank and I forget the author's name and that was really like the beginning where the light bulb went off for me and then I reached out to uh yeah uh I I took a couple other classes and then I eventually wound up taking mentoring and um and that was the really aha moment for me uh with with getting into this note space where you know if if the younger me would have known what the older me knew now with that note there's no way that I would have took that big of a haircut on that note but you know it's one of those things you live and you learn so for those of looking I did quick Google searching it uh seeing it was written by Benjamin Michael Lyons so for those who are curious about the quick Amazon search so you got into this world of this product you did the real estate thing which I think we all kind of started with right yep and we stumbled across it one pathway or another me Nathan share a story before did you jump in it head first did you have any kind of Education with the real estate uh yeah what started it all for me believe it or not is the Carlton sheets course um I'm gonna be 53 this July so that's dating me and uh so I got the course and then I got the upgrades and all the other stuff um but it was always that analysis of paralysis you know it's like I I knew in my head but I but I there was still that to me and then I called the borrower and when I spoke to the borrower he said you are literally the first person that this loan has been sold like seven or eight times that has reached out to me and he said I have been trying to get this thing back on track and he goes nobody's no nobody no no I couldn't get in contact with anybody and yeah so now it's it's a performing note and what's even and I modified it for him so that way you know I helped him but for me you know it it's um I developed a you know I know you're you you have to same thing with your tenants right you know keeping it professional and personal but with this borrower it's really become more of a friendship with him you know so it was it's a really good feeling being able to help him help him get back on track and then he's been making his monthly payments like clockwork and you know every couple months he'll reach out to me just to say hey how you doing just you know checking on me and you know things like that so it was really amazing that's really cool are you based in South Carolina was that a local note for you no I'm in Cincinnati Ohio oh okay all right yeah fair share in Cincinnati of course uh don't do much there anymore uh we all mostly start in Franklin County as most people who've been around for a while we've bought a whole lot in Franklin but Franklin's probably the easiest County for online records online everything it is amazing yeah in short branching out um you've got into space by mentors resources when was that point you'd gone to the space where you're like wow this is working was it a deal was it a conversation you had was it an event you went to I I think it's all of the above you know it's one of those things where I I knew it was going to work just because you know I saw the returns and and just having with the uh the preview lunch Skyline or gold star Skyline 100 yeah nice we all got introduced as we're going through and doing our stuff and going through Cincinnati and somebody says hey you got to have this chili I'm like what are you talking about and now I crave it order it online oh I love it I love it so you know connecting with local people is a real big thing in the space right if it's not doing it in person you're not flying out there getting on a phone call and talking people because they know the local market right passes the BPO mindset it really kind of gets you deep dive into what areas do I want to avoid whatever it is I don't want to avoid and why do I not want to avoid them because because somebody may not like an area it doesn't mean that I shouldn't invest in it yep exactly the mindset um it matters uh we thought before about the fact that a lot of people put it well it's not a good property well that doesn't tell me anything about the property right yeah tell me what you don't like about it well it's an under 100 000 that doesn't mean I'm not gonna like it I mean I mean you like it or not or the one I hear all the time is is even from Realtors anybody who goes by the house and they're like oh it's in bad shape like that is so subjective what does bad shape mean like are we talking that needs a paint job or are we talking there's mold all over it yes exactly well let's see that's the thing because with all the prop I mean all the properties that I've bought and or looked at right and um and that's very subjective when it comes to bad shape because I'm like I'm telling you there's there's some properties that I look at that somebody goes that is 100 a turret I'm thinking oh my God are you kidding me yeah I'll buy that all day every day yeah that's a nugget right there yeah yeah so let's shoot gears here for a minute when you're talking about your marketing how do you Market what's your tricks and whatnot that you use are you using any kind of um boot Suites are you doing it manually have friends and family um seeing a lot of the things that I'm working on um and then they actually reach out to me as well um about you know just being curious about you know what's going on and then potentially being a a private investor at some point in in the future but yeah definitely LinkedIn is not is in my opinion is number one and that's for funding Partners that's for deals oh yeah yeah um are you feeling that this marketing has increased a decrease in the last say six months are you doing more of it less of it what are your feelings are yeah it's I'm doing more and I actually need to do more and um and that's yeah and that's why you know I'm gonna have my VA actually ramp it up um a little bit more you know I don't want to be like too in your face with it you know I I want to post more of the deals that I'm working on uh more of the deals that I passed on uh so that way you know people can actually see that you know that he that Larry is actually out there in the space looking at these deals um and he's making offers on these things have you got a deal pass to you that was just not normal right like a that crazy seller playing steel has any of those kind of crossed your paths or is it pretty much been that other investors assets that they're trying to sell off to you um and have you gotten deals from these posts oh yeah uh I mean um I've got several Facebook people that that reach out to me and a lot of the seller finance notes and um and a lot of times they're just like newly originated me personally I you know I like to see at least you know three months to six months of seasoning for you know and um a little bit of a you know like 10 to 20 percent down uh on the down payment hopefully it's better now it's amazing when you ship that gear that mindset change you go through because you don't realize it while you're going through it that this is a whole new world and then it becomes overwhelming right 100 so how did you make that transition and and how did you did you learn by doing did you take a specific class to learn yeah reaching I haven't haven't a mentor um and then also um buying a bunch of books and then also a bunch of uh YouTube videos um you know it's just really kind of you know consuming and just getting that jargon down because there there is a lot of information that you as a note investor have to understand um before buying your first note just you know all the due diligence the things that you have to do to make sure that you know you are in or and or your investors are in a really good spot to where if you do have to take that property back you know you know your exit strategies and you know you're not gonna uh take a bath on it right yeah absolutely so you dive ahead first in this space of this great unknown and becoming the bank right that's a Houston goal from landlord to lien Lords the old thing is your first deal what did it look like it it was amazing it was a non-performing note in uh South Carolina and um and the funny thing is is it it was um you know when I got it you know the uh when I reached out the servicer actually reached out to the to the borrower and developed you know um you know got the phone number contacted him he actually called me and he said that um you uh you are the first person uh let me back up he got the number called him and then he gave the number experience that that I had with the uh with the real estate you know rehabbing properties wholesaling um you know subject two deals short sales you know uh owner finance note at zero percent interest you know it's like I I knew all this stuff was going to work and if and if I buy it right I knew I I knew I'm gonna make money you know so it's just having that for me though having that previous previous experience with already in this real estate space I knew once I made that shift you know as long as I buy it right at the yield that I need to buy it at and then if I hold on to it for two to three years then I'm gonna be able to you know make that make that um make that profit and then be able to sell that note to some other investor and make sure that that other investor down the road has a pretty good yield because you know when I every time that I approach these notes you know I'm you know I I want to give my investors or myself the return that that I want to get but also if when I'm holding these things for a couple years you know I want to make sure that that I uh that I give that investor um a good return too so you know I just don't want to leave you know scraps on the bone I I still want to you know have something substantial for that end investor yeah so let's shift gears here for a second you know you're bringing other investors on um you're doing great stuff with it why'd you start marketing was it to gather from other people if they wanted to invest was it to just share and network what was your premise on starting it and was that the outcome you ended up with yeah it's all um you know and that's the thing I know um another Mentor that I had you know he would all you know marketing you know is a moving parade right so you never know who you're gonna who you're gonna touch and that was always something that that I've done uh with my previous uh real estate uh investing was always marketed and you know uh uh postcards and things like how you doing your graphics for those who you encourage those who are buying themselves to do marketing like they're doing now 100 everybody should be 100 marketing either you know like looking at a deal that you're looking at um uh analyzing it uh or passed on right take that and put that up there so I do a uh several things I use a um there's a program called email octopus and so and so you know that helps with like the marketing and things like that out to like the banks and the hedge funds uh hedge fund managers to make that connection but uh but I also have a a virtual assistant that works for me uh part-time she's doing about what 25 hours a week and between 15 to 25 hours depending on you know what I have um so she'll do the marketing for me um where she'll she'll post um some of my Graphics into LinkedIn Facebook and also on Twitter I know there's a couple different programs like HootSuite and and things like that are you doing the graphics is she doing the graphics uh yeah um uh I do a lot of the graphics um but I'm actually showing her how to do that so you know I'm just kind of giving her General ideas and so and then I'm using for the graphic program I'm actually using canva canva.com yeah it's a really good low-cost tool I'm the same with you right you can get the free one you can pay one but they have some great utilities you can push to different platforms yeah I've learned a little about it but I'm not playing too deep into it um so you did this from what what's your reason for marketing what's your goal that you're hoping for these marketing ads to get you it's uh connections you know uh networking um networking with uh Bank you know I have I have a lot of uh bank managers and hedge funds and then you know I also follow a lot of the bank managers I had the big ones and um I guess uh small to large uh other note investors um I mean I'm actually working on one that actually came from a um a Facebook uh post awesome yeah and it's accepted and um so I'm just basically I was in the process of doing the due diligence so I just need to get back with him and to basically finalize it oh that's great that's great what other systems are you doing email wise marketing wise are you doing email marketing as well uh uh would I do email marketing I do um but but what it is it's strictly for the people that opted into my uh to my website um now I I hadn't uh I got off of doing the the weekly uh email every Monday morning I would do a um and and I I stopped like right after Christmas and I just from Christmas up until about now I've just been slammed um so and I need to instead of doing the uh the weekly I'm going to go back to uh maybe just do it um every couple weeks or something like that um and so I send out a email to my private lenders letting them know it's just basically like a um kind of like a catch-up like like I do things I do with my fiance or my kids um and then I have a deal or dud and then I have a real estate section and um and those are for my private lenders but basically I take that same information and then I do a LinkedIn newsletter um and I have and I was sending that out every Wednesday so I'm just going to switch it to either do it every Tuesday or every other Tuesday for both of them and um and I'm telling you that that marketing the um the LinkedIn newsletter and also the um the email marketing to my private lender list it 100 works because it's I'm constantly letting them know that hey you know I'm analyzing a deal I'm analyzing a deal I'm here and then they also get to see more of a personal side of me you know with Joni my fiance or you know my kids that you know I'm just not some fly by my you know person I want them to have a after the show okay I do a lot of that kind of automation that's in blink and eye kind of thing um and a lot of tax stuff I pulled from my own due diligence tools where I can pull five different valuations of property annual tax amounts and bedroom bathrooms see if it's listed for sale see less I have all that stuff there and I also do a lot of spreadsheet automation um so we can definitely talk after the show on okay with that yeah and I'll tell you a big thing for me Dave is um especially with the automation um a big uh I usually um I look at the the yield to maturity and then the irr uh on that just to make sure because you know I I do do a percentage of the uh of the upb in order to get my yield to maturity and uh my irr writes to make sure that I'm within line because I'm telling you there's a lot of times where I'll forget to do that and then I'm like last minute I'm like oh dang I got to go back in and then I also have to add in like the due diligence and then you know like backing out servicing costs and all this other stuff where you know my initial offer thank God I didn't submit it and I'm like last minute it's like I'm thinking I totally forgot to do this this and this and I got to go back in and then reassess it so when you do have those automating automated tools they 100 make a big difference well um I did ask for some questions we just got a boatload of questions at once so I'm gonna try uh me and Ethan go backwards Nathan let you start with the first one uh make sure you mention the name and yes Gabe Cass good old Gabe how you doing Gabe um he's asking about do you use text messaging do you text message your leads uh I don't no um you know that's something that um I was looking at doing that with um with my private lenders um you know that my investor is going to fund the money but I don't know it's one of those things where I just think it's kind of like less personal that but yeah it's now with LinkedIn and Facebook and and Twitter it's even more prevalent um yeah it's it's about being um at the right place right time because it you know life is a moving parade you never know who you're going to touch or who's going to see your message and you know I I just want to let when I'm doing my marketing I I want to let the like the banks and the hedge funds and you know other note investors know that hey I'm active in this space and I'm buying these notes and I just you know I'm looking at a set of nine I made them out of the nine I made two offers you know one got accepted um you know I have a a Weekly Newsletter that I'll do uh dealer dud and so you know it's like uh some of the properties that I looked at whether they were a deal or some of them were a dud and so that well you know I'll blast that out to everybody but yeah it's just all about basically being in front of that person to to let them know that hey I'm here I'm buying uh the other thing is is the um yeah everybody is kind of you know a buyer seller or a funder right and so as long as you you take that approach and you think of that that somebody's looking at it that may not be a note investor but somebody else is looking at it they see some of my other marketing that I'm doing that there's you know the the above average returns and you're secured by uh you know a tangible asset real estate that they see that and they become uh interested I've had many conversations uh with investors by just seeing my post either on LinkedIn or Facebook um and they reach out to me and we you know we uh if they're local we'll go to you know go to lunch or dinner and have a conversation and you know I just basically just tell them exactly you know how my program works and you know how these are the kind of returns that that I'm looking at and you know and just kind of take it from there so in Cincinnati when you're going for um so that way they can see what I'm doing that I'm active in this space and then the other thing um is to um to to to uh to appro to have people approach me for private money you know possibly loaning uh money to me um to buy these assets so you know like I said you know somebody's a buyer seller or funder and so I'm I'm always uh looking at it from that I mean case in point um I went to a uh area meeting just as uh past Wednesday night and I hadn't been to a real meeting and God knows how long you know and then it's a little local chapter here and I and I went and um you know he uh they were talking about uh whether a a commercial property's Deal or No Deal and then you know but before that you know people that you get up and you introduce yourself and you know I got up and I said hey you know my name's Larry Hoffman I buy non-secure notes I you know I also create lucrative deals uh to give people an above average return if you need anything if you want any any more information you know reach out you know stop me before I leave and so at the end of the uh at the end of the thing um I had uh uh two people approached me about one um understanding more about the note uh but two also possibly being a funding partner for me fantastic it's all about networking you just got to open your mouth and talk open your mouth yeah you post some LinkedIn you're posting Facebook Twitter where do you think is the best if you had to pick one or three where's your your best secret for those who are listening in or saying I don't have the time to post this stuff um where would you say the best place to start off where do you get the best connection with either funding Capital wise or even that connection yeah I would say LinkedIn is like number one and then definitely Facebook because you know I uh on Facebook you know I relationship with me you know and this not the business so you get these Assets in you doing a lot of due diligence I do you uh do you have automation tools or systems behind the scene to help you just juggle all this the I I you know with I am I am in the process of creating my own um Macro for Excel right because one or two or five is pretty easy to analyze but oftentimes you know I'll look at tapes where they're you know 30 50 100 and you Whittle them down and then you know like of a hundred maybe you Whittle it down to like say 30.

well 30 it takes a lot of time to do the due diligence on so right now I just have a very very rudimentary Excel spreadsheet macro where it takes those assets and I gotta format them into the right column and it does all my due diligence for me and so and then the next thing that I'm going to do is um there's still some manual automation that I have to do is like go out check the taxes go out check Pacer see if they file bankruptcy um look at the statute of limitations based off the the uh the length of the loan so that way because when when somebody gives you like an unpaid principal balance and it had been collected in like you know 18 years well there's a statue of limitations on what you can actually collect so that true upb or what they're saying isn't what they're you're going to be able to collect on so that you know you got to figure out what you can collect on so there's little things that like those things I still need to manually do but I'm going to try to incorporate all that into I don't think I would be able to do that in this macro but turning it into a like a web service type of thing where you know it'll like scripts where it'll go out and do a lot of that but yeah right now it's uh it's a it's it's a little bit of manual and a little bit of automation Nathan knows where I'm gonna go with that right I do a lot we'll catch up um and I for me I want to have more of that personal connection with somebody so I just go and you know my let my uh my my private lender list I mean I think it's only about 50 something people or something like that and but out of that I mean I have um I have about 5.5 million dollars right and um and so and I'll just you know I'll just start calling people and just having a conversation but no I don't I don't text message um leads or anything like that I I use texting a lot uh especially with Realtors okay Jacksonville's Realtors just it's just fast and easy oftentimes it's like hey did you check on the property you know something okay I don't need to make a phone call on that and a lot of people are so busy they don't even want to bother like yeah give me a quick thing so we have uh interesting I'm gonna stick with games questions now that's going to bump them together and we'll go back up we have a moral so Gable says what states are you marketing for there are certain States you're trying to Target right now no um uh I I buy Nationwide except for New York New Jersey California and uh Illinois um so uh you know it's um oftentimes though when I get when I do get a tape you know my my top five is you know Ohio Indiana Michigan Indiana uh women Ohio Indiana Michigan South Carolina North Carolina Texas and um and Florida right or top seven so yeah and um Georgia um I do uh I typically when I do buy a in Georgia I usually buy my self-directed IRA um so if I'll sift and sort the tape from those and um and if and if there's not a lot to choose from from there from from those you know like seven or eight then I'll I'll Branch outward but I'm not like I'm not specifically targeting you know specific note investors like that I know has a a lot of notes in like South Carolina um a lot of my marketing is geared towards a lot of the banks and the hedge funds uh so I have you know personal uh relationships with these guys and also servicing companies where they'll send me the uh the tapes and then you know I'll go in and I'll sift and sort what I want and then I'll make offers on them yeah so um I think we'll get tomorrow's question a few minutes um I think what you said there real quick about the Georgia thing for those who may not know there's a licensing requirement in Georgia and if you do buy it I know Gable to test the right but if you do Buy in Georgia and you're not licensed and you're buying in a company name um it's a felony so just for those who are knowledgeable the IRA kind of surpassing because you're buying a private personal name um but check the local law is going to stop standing in Illinois and stuff like that they have debt license requirements that it can be expensive you're not buying enough so I'll let you hit up Mario's questions yeah so uh I'll go with the first one first and then I gotta follow-up to it so do you think the market is is shrinking or or growing what are you seeing out there uh me personally I I believe it's growing um you know and it's uh especially with a lot of the the covet moratorium being lifted and you know and then with the economy and the you know the recession I I I don't care what people say we're 100 in a recession and um and so it is 100 my opinion we're this is just the beginning of it you know and uh there are going to be way more people in default and that's with me buying these notes um my number one goal is to not foreclose on them is to get them re-performing because you know foreclosure is the very last thing that I want to do and if I can help somebody I will 100 help somebody get back on isn't wrong you know when you're buying 30 cents now you're buying it 60 65 70 it was a completely different Market back then um and it shipped along all we bought was not performing back then and you'll find now we're buying more performing than ever before because the pricing has changed and our Market has changed because our design return for non-performing is much higher because of the risk levels yeah part of it too is I think we're just getting older Dave and it's just it's let's work the performers are easier to manage yeah that's bks and all stops you know the hassle of the BK Tracy never trustees um and looking at thousands of thousands of assets your brain kind of goes oh right yeah I still like to hustle but maybe not quite as much yeah we got to get our kids doing it hustling for us right that's the goal right I just I just bought a um a note that's in a bankruptcy and um so you know uh bankruptcy Chapter you know 13 and um and I'm telling you it's it's like um you know you do all your due diligence and Chapter 13 Bankruptcy it's a performing note oh and I got it I I got it at a substantial discount um and then I was able to reach out uh or the borrower actually reached out to me uh because I got what I did was I got in contact with the attorney um of the of the BK attorney and I said for a second those who don't know he's saying you cannot reach out to your borrower if they're in bankruptcy they right now you never speak to the borrower in BK and so exactly and so I reached out to the uh to her attorney um just introducing myself to saying hey you know I just I'm the new owner of this note um I want to go ahead and try to do a loan modification because looking over the you know the all the bankruptcy documentation I just felt like the the plan set set her up for failure and I I'll divide that by you know what I'm going to offer to see what my initial interest rate my cash on cash is going to be so if it's if it's like you know like the tens you know 12s 15s you know the cream kind of rise to the top those are the ones that I'm going to start you know really looking at and then I'll start doing a little bit more due to and then looking at the yield of maturity and the irr and then all the other stuff just to make sure you know and if I bought it for X that my you know my my yield of maturity is I I like to see at least 13 or higher and so when I get those yeah and I'm like shoot they look good everything looks good it falls within the states that I like um and then everything comes back with like the taxes uh everything looks good on the collateral file send it over to my attorney he signs off on it you know I'm like I'm all in yeah um we me and Ethan talked about this before what our things are we have certain States we look at um you know one of the first first things we look at is uh interest rates right but I'm looking at a performing asset at three percent um there's nothing you can do to get that Dorito it's right discounted so dramatically um in a yield formula uh we bid everything on our irr but it's kind of the same thing as yields but you can't get a two percent or ten that easily right right I think the big one if you're creating it originating notes and a new Gene does this kind of stuff to entry it's the big one the state it's into the big one too because if you're buying if you're creating in say you know uh Florida versus Texas the time frame is gigantic you know you go from 12 months in Florida plus sometimes sometimes two three to six months Max anything in Texas to go to a foreclosure which means that my return can double A year in Texas while waiting for Florida to work it out so the different variables in the cost differences as well yeah but it and buying it in your self-directed IRA um if it has a couple you know years on it and if I get it at a pretty good rate you know if I'm making nine ten percent I'm totally fine with that but if I'm buying it outside my self-directed IRA and I have you know uh six percent like money cost or something um then you know then I'll have to get like a 12 return on that um and then oftentimes I've got to cash out my investor two to three years I need to make sure there's enough on that back end where I get cashed out pay him off or her off and then have a little bit of profit on the back end so that's where you you need to look at um where you want to buy it your money cost and how you know how long do you want to hold on to this thing for because all of that comes into a into effect on these things absolutely yeah definitely so the question comes from Rodney from uh our LinkedIn live is um great for those who can help but whatever you what's your experience been for those who couldn't or had to foreclose I'm not sure exactly what that question is referring to but I guess is how difficult is it to foreclose on somebody and what's that if you've done it before what are some of the pitfalls of that uh uh thank God I have not had a uh foreclosed foreclosed on anybody um so you know and it's one of the things um and if you do uh you have uh people and places and systems and you know in place um you know you just reach out to the attorney uh in that state um or a lot of times a lot of these notes are in the process of being foreclosed and if you can't get them back on track you just reach out to the attorney that actually started the foreclosure and just you know kind of pick up where they left you know where the previous borrow borrower left off I have had to foreclose on people and a vast majority of the time I'm foreclosing on a property it's a vacant property they've already moved on they've passed away whatever their feet and start making these payments and stay in that house yeah absolutely so his question his second question is what's the change from 2006 to now but 2006 you're doing properties right so when when was your first note oh what was it about a couple years ago yeah okay yeah so what when did you start studying and I started looking at stuff oh God I think I started studying probably about five years ago that you know I started you know like buying a bunch of books and uh courses and things like that and just kind of getting my feet getting my feet wet within the air trying to learn the jargon um and it was once again it was always the uh the analysis of paralysis yeah you know it's and that was a nice thing about it you know having like a coach or a mentor like you know that that you know they've been there and they've done that and you know you can reach out to that person especially in this note space because it's you know it's the the fear of the unknown you know but once you do your first one um it's kind of easier than your second then your third like oh God okay yeah I'm making what mountain out of a mobile building basically it just bottom the bottom line is you just really need to do your due diligence on it um you know look at your numbers do your due diligence and um and you know and then you can always run it by somebody um you know that just to make sure that you're not uh you maybe you're not seeing something that the other person may see yeah and and I mean Dave and I can tell you over the years my goodness you continue to learn yeah there's so many different situations it's almost impossible to anticipate every possible scenario oh yeah so you just you keep learning you keep figuring stuff out you're talking about documentations I thought was a one number thing and I learned just about 18 months ago two years ago that there's six different pillars of sex with patients it's about just said I want to go ahead and just modify this loan for and if you could just have her you know if you could talk to her um and then you know talk to to my attorney and then let's just you know get it figured out she sent the letter of the email to her the borrower the borrower called me and she was literally crying on the phone yeah I mean it's seeing that's the thing it's it's such a a good feeling to be able to help somebody yeah um that that's going through such a traumatic experience you know in in their lives it's amazing but you know just 100 you know I kind of got off tangent but 100 do all your due diligence you know before you buy the note BK I know Nathan's I'm big on it I love BK because you're getting the constant payment of the mortgage payment but you're also getting the rear it was like a bonus kick on it right um you hate when BK's uses a tool to avoid foreclosure I get that um but when it's payment it's awesome um I think we answered John question is where your notes are coming from most of the time they come from Banks hedge funds and uh you know other investors who are out there um and you're getting it for marketing people right companies I've seen part of this uh the live feed here let's see some hard marketing from you guys I'd like to see you astonishing and say wow I've seen his name out there constantly you may not remember where you saw it from but if the name stands out because you've seen so much of it um and understand that the algorithms through these social media is right almost three times a day and no one saw it yeah it's just what it is we had a question from Gene um Davis that throughout the years uh you created sop or process map that walks you through the due diligence how do you uh the walk shooter walks you through how do you do your due diligence how do you tell if a note is worth offering on okay how do you know if a note is worth making a bid on it I guess the question well I mean that's the thing I mean that that's the thing you know what we because you did brought up you brought up the interest rates like the lower interest rates I actually um I bought uh six um notes from a um a mid-size uh investment firm and uh a few up three of them they had low interest rates on them um but I got those at about 30 to 40 percent of the upb so it and it met that yield um and I'm it's it's just like it's one of those things where it's right place right time yeah you know he just wanted to unload they just wanted to unload them uh and that's why you know another thing I always do too is I always ask the um the person's what their price expectations are because you know if they're telling you 90 and you're going you're coming back at like 60 I'm like you know you know you're just going to be wasting your time but a lot of times they'll just tell you highest and best because you know they're they're sifting and sorting from all these other people too and that's where it's like even if it's at like a three percent I'm like I'm just gonna go ahead and make my offer and see if um um if uh if it if it takes and then here's the other big thing too is I 100 follow up on all my offers you know and it's just like uh every couple months I'll just follow up and I use um a pipedrive uh as my tool and I have a bunch of swim lanes and I have a lot of things that like these uh these workflows so when I move them into different uh you know Lanes it'll automate like an email out to my attorney it'll uh another one out to uh the BPO and title work and things like that and then I have a task list of things that that need to be done that's awesome so just going back to the you know preferences of notes and and I think that's what makes this such a great Community is because we're competing against each other sometimes but a lot of the time we're not because I have preference this way and you have a preference that way and so it allows us to kind of come together and really um so the vast majority of the time it's an empty property so I'm just foreclosing on the property not a person every once in a while I do have to foreclose on a person I hate doing that yeah I hate it but at the same time uh I can't do nothing yeah so so we've got to move forward in one way or another uh in a foreclosure is the way that it needs to go then it needs to go that way and as much as I I really don't like doing that um it is part of the business and that's yeah that's something that you're gonna and you said me before that you've had people cry when they're excited I've also the opposite side where people are crying don't foreclose on me yeah and can you do a mod and the problem is I can't mod someone who lost half their income or three quarters their income because right I just reached where the husband got sick and injured gotten working 15 and he was a breadwinner he got injured could not collect anything he was collecting disability he went from making a lot of good money to making nothing and they could not keep the house financially and I'm not here you know as much as I want to help I can't help the situation the plans just don't change anything yeah and they just couldn't make the deal happen for them and they cried and that I felt bad but at the same time I'm still a business still investor yeah hey Gabe I won't put it in there but Dave mentioned he foreclosed on almost every note he's bought okay um so uh the next one I'll let Nathan ask uh from Facebook yeah is this Gene Davis he's asking uh what's the typical time frame that you tell your lenders that you'll have their funds tied up for uh I I tell them uh between 24 to 36 months yeah I think that's a good time frame and what do you do at the end of it do you cash out do you sell the note what's your kind of game plan for that yeah it's either I'll cash them out um if I want to hold on to the note for for example um the South Carolina one um you know dates from next due date to last payment date to maturity day to yep you know if start a foreclosure there's so many things and certain states allow certain things so yeah it's definitely a huge thing that we you your calculator can grow and grow and grow until you're just monstrosity like I have right into your network yes but what I will tell you is um the thing uh that really helps me is um especially when you get the collateral file so uh you know you want to make sure that you have all you know uh from the start of the the creation of the loan to when you buy like all the alarm just and all the assignment of mortgages and you know just make sure you have everything and if you don't understand that you can always reach out to an attorney I have an attorney that that I reach out to and I you know I'm like okay I'll send over the collateral I'll look at them and make sure that everything is there but then I'll send it over to him and then just the double double make sure that everything is there and then he'll say hey you're good go ahead with with the deal yeah it's amazing because due diligence everyone's different right so people can find due diligence well I might Define the way I do it make them say differently you're going to say something different um we have some pretty much the same thing we're polar openings for Polar value of properties we're viewing collateral are the big three right um but we also get into servicing notes and we also get into pay history and consistency and as Nathan shows the data tape also has some did points in there like the date of the data that's another key Point um so attention because I mean I got into notes in 2010 I bought my first one like late June 11 and what shifted from then there now is what Nathan said earlier is the collaterals change the asset used to be all underwater uh we used to bid based on percentage of upb because everything was underwater and the fact that we're buying it so cheap that it didn't matter if our calculator that's kind of like um I guess that's a subjective question you know because it's uh one that I might find you know um acceptable Dave or or Nathan may just like ah we're gonna pass on it you know that that's where it's um subjected subjective um and that's where I gotta look at it on a on a note by note basis um if something can be cured and that's why I 100 rely on my attorney because even though it looks good to me you know within the collateral file I'll send it over time to my attorney he goes well Emmett you know it's missing you know whatever X Y and Z we can't fix this and and then I I'm just I and I go back to the seller I can't buy it because it's it's you know my attorney is telling me it's missing this it can't be cured um you know because I'm always thinking in the long run that you know in a couple years two to three years I may sell this note off to another investor and I want to because the buck stops with me when I buy this note I want to make sure that that collateral file everything is there 100 intact so when I set it sell it to the next next investor they don't have to worry about anything because it's been 100 gone through with the fine-tooth comb yeah so I think what he's asking more about when you're at the tape level and they can offer what makes a note worth making an offer on what makes it not worth making an offer oh I see obviously State's a big versus state I'm presuming you're looking at State what are the numbers are you looking at to decide to even bother looking at that asset oh yeah yeah for sure um I I like notes that are like um typically what I'll do I'll sift and sort and then I'll take the principal interest times 12 or you know take the principle and interest minus the servicing cost of you know like a non-performing note 90 bucks you know whatever and multiply that by 12 so I'll get my uh my yearly um uh principal and interest and then collaborate because we're not necessarily direct competitors we sometimes compete on specific assets but a lot of the time we don't and that makes it really fun to be able to get right it's different from a local realtor you know investors buying the same rehab house in the same block we're not exactly a lot of times where like your yield may be different your goal may be different maybe you want the property maybe you're anticipating to get the property back and rent it out where I have no interest in that stock right but some people were like listen I want to do that to get this and get that maybe you're doing by yourself and you don't need the 15 20 yield maybe eight makes sense for you and you can beat me on certain deals right so it all depends on what your angle is maybe you're buying for your IRA which again as long as you beat the market you're okay with it yeah and see Dave you you just brought up because I was just going to talk about that because uh and that's where you have to figure out like what's your money costs are too because you know if you're borrowing money at six percent you need to get at least 12 percent if you eight percent you got to get 16 16 um so that kind of dictates you know the kind of yield that you want but if you are buying it uh in your self-directed IRA I mean a simple eight percent nine percent is sufficient I mean you know it's like where else are you going to make a nine percent return yeah secured by a tangible tangible asset and I'm like I'll take that all day every day yeah yeah so I have two questions before we get the linkedin's question from Rodney have you ever bought or sold a partial and what um but we'll start there go ahead okay no I have never bought or sold a partial I I've had uh made many uh offers on partials okay yeah and do you care how many years are left in a note when you go to buy it if it's one year or 20 years does that change your yeah I like to see it have a you know a little bit of time uh left on it uh because you know and once again it kind of goes back to where you're buying it if you're I think I'm going to cash my particular investor out just because you know the personal relationship that I have with this borrower um you know but yeah typically um you know two to three years I'll just go ahead and just sell the note and then you know get the money out cash you know cash that person out and ask them if if they want to play again and if they want to invest the money again and then we'll do another round and that's a good time frame and for people that are kind of getting started just some of the reasoning behind that and Larry tell me if this is right but this is where my mind goes is let's say you've got a 30-year amortized note uh and it's three years in so then you buy it at 20 uh 27 years left on the Node the amount of principle being paid off is still very very low yep so two or three years from now when I go to resell that node that principal balance is still quite high so it makes it much much easier for me to resell it up 100 and that's the other thing with these um when you when you uh modify the notes you start the uh the clock from zero again so you know yeah 24 years 30 years and it's just like I mean that that note um that's modified it was modified last year I mean it's you know it started from zero right and so I can you know that's a conversation I'm gonna have to have with with my investor um do you want to you know it's coming up on two years do you want to you know get cash out or you know you want to leave it in for another two years right right and on that on that one there's there's a lot of time because the uh the uh the principal is not you know it's very little that's being paid down and that's where you know somebody was asking about the length of the uh the term that's where that comes into a uh into account specifically on your exit strategy if you want if you're buying it in your self-directed IRA it's you know to me it doesn't matter because I'm buying it you know if I get a discount if I get my yield they can just totally cash me out but if I'm using somebody's money I got to be cognitive of that to make sure that I have enough on the back end when I go to sell this thing and then also I also try to figure out if somebody's looking for like a 10 11 or 12 percent yield on that money you know two to three years down the road what kind of position is that going to put me in am I going to be in a negative position do I have to come out of pocket or am I am I at a pretty good position so you you 100 have to look at all that yeah all that goes into it so it's yeah there's there's a lot that goes into it so again you're gonna if you haven't done this before I would definitely talk to people who have yeah before you jump into it it's not the easiest thing in the world do Larry had experience before would buy real estate so this Avenue of getting capital is very carefully done right right just be careful you do but at the same time the only way something to learn is by doing which kind of stinks but you got to learn it um because you're gonna run on your own Capital unless you're right really really well which is great um you're running a capital you can go multiple ways um the way Larry's doing you have to be real careful uh Nathan it has a fund uh that he has to see regulated um and then I have private Capital that I have a partner with we have Capital we have planning so in that kind of aspect you get any capital in the space um the one thing that sucks when you do foreclose you're not bringing any money in and you're kind of putting money out you're constantly either a asking for all this money up front or B passing for a draw every time you need to see an attorney yeah and that's the other thing um when I look at the um when I get the tape in um I preferred uh occupied assets you know so that way I can um and especially if they've made the payment within the last couple years or you know um yeah a payment within the last couple years at least they've made some attempt to make a payment then I look at that as thank you everyone for joining in and we'll see you guys soon I think next one we'll be talking about is March third I think we are yeah we'll be talking wraps and legal stuff and radiation but also buying them which is going to be killer for the year so enjoy everyone a high probability of getting them back on track and and then but if the VAC I was just looking at a tape this morning where sifting and sorting you know I had a bunch of vacant and a bunch of um occupied I'm going after the occupied first and then I was talking to the to that uh to the guy selling the uh the tape um I said on these vacant ones I'm gonna you know be pretty low on it because I'm gonna have to 100 foreclose on these things you know so because you can't go you know if it's gone if nobody's living in it you can't get them back on track they've already made the decision to walk away yeah and from my perspective um you know they're the pro and con to both sides of it if it's vacant it could be trashed right but you could get a decent Loop pretty easily usually if it's occupied they're usually can modify and work things out but they can just plug in the Foreclosure too so there's definitely a two-headed sword either side yeah I don't know if you mentioned this before and I don't see them asking do you primarily buy first or are you buying seconds as well no I just buy first mortgages yeah I just buy first mortgages um I don't do uh seconds I got a buddy that buys second mortgage so whenever you know like a second comes up I'll refer them over to him uh but I'm struggling I've been laying contracts or reverse mortgages are you looking at those kind of uh I do I do yeah um and that's the thing um with the land contracts uh on the um the uh the modification um typically because you know your name is on the deity on the on the land contract I I personally I I do buy them but I don't like it um and so anytime I get a chance to modify it I'll turn it into a mortgage and get my name get my company name off that off that deed because I don't I don't want to be you know I want to own anything I don't yeah I don't want to own anything anymore yeah I get it I get it so we we kind of talked about this a little bit before but where do you see this Market heading like where are we going well uh yeah we were talking earlier um I I see foreclosures definitely you know rising up um I see a lot of you know uh people being laid off and you know with the uh more people being laid off because of the economy and um you know with that people are going to be in the uh we're going to be more foreclosures um so there's going to be you know there's going to be an opportunity where we as note investors you know we can come in and and that's why I love this because it's like you know I I'm yeah I'm able to make money on it but I'm also going in with the the mindset of being able to help the people that want to be help that you know that haven't you know that that maybe something happened they didn't really you know if they did lose their job but they were able to get back on track get another job and make these payments again that you can 100 help people like that and um but and that's why I love it but yeah I definitely see the foreclosures definitely ramping up this year yeah me too we'll see what happens I'm seeing it too um I know that some of the things are kind of slurred and slow down our borrowers are not paying exact same time I'm trying to see that little Trend um keep an eye on it we'll see what happens I know that over the last few years we've significantly higher performing than we expected um it's been amazing ride um but all rides you know all all situations hidden hoes so I need to cycle of that is going to come to an end quickly um and we'll see where the next side goes we just have to be very flexible yeah yeah I appreciate you Larry joining us um I know that uh some of the people here have been really fortunate and they see your post take a look at it on LinkedIn Larry's on there Larry's on Facebook and he's doing some really cool stuff so if you just want to pick his brain ask questions I did put it in the comments the webinar link um forms if you want to fill it out I can share you a lot of information um but definitely reach out to them if you're looking for information or if you have an asset that you're looking to sell reach at the library and see if you can make a deal happen awesome awesome it's really buying on that interest rate right so buying in that yield or irr and if that interest rates of three or four to get into a 10 that you're looking for or 15 or 20 whatever you look for the discount is deeper and deeper the farther lower that original interest rate is and we try to encourage people to kind of think differently we're still caring about people buying on percentage of upb which if you want us private talk we can have it and how that just doesn't make sense 10 years ago you could could do that because everything is underwater and there was it was a totally different Market yes 10 years ago sure if you want to buy based on percentage of upb in most cases that made sense but in today's market it just doesn't nope learn and adjust and grow or Die the same way you did 10 years ago well so um we just finished up our second five-week course we're going into our six to ten week course with those people who complete the one through five um uh a couple of previous clients have been on here uh we'll actually have uh one of our recent clients kind of share what we talked about from building a bid calculator to due diligence and then the second six five six to ten weeks we'll be talking about systems and uh or organizing your um vendors and managing them how to do that BK and uh also regime notes and partials and whatnot uh some Advanced strategies yeah it's been probably not this has been really awesome of course because it allows us you and I to talk about how our methods are different even though we talk the same talk yeah yeah and we've both been doing this for a number of years now and and it's interesting to see our different different but similar approaches uh you know the same way of getting to point A to point B Point C but just in different ways absolutely with that said um we're talking about alternative investing not just Bank originated notes which we've bought for many many many years this Market of being self-financed not just seller finance but buying reps and buying reverse mortgages is a huge topic this whole idea can you speak a little bit about this baby of yours DME that's gonna be talking about not just bankriching notes and how those who may not listen those two weeks ago what they're walking into is not going to be a typical note investing conference no exactly and and you know I've been to a lot of conferences over the years and and there's been a ton of talk about non-performing notes because that was a huge huge market for us that I want I don't want to say it's drying up but it's it's not as plentiful as it used to be so we've got to expand we've got to learn we've got to grow and and learn how to do different kinds of notes so a big purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish at DME is I want The Originators to be there as well as the note buyers to be there so that we can come together The Originators have somewhere to sell their product and the buyers have somewhere to buy stuff that's a big meeting of everybody to come together I want people to walk away with deals not just contacts yeah and it's funny we just had a master uh meeting the Minds last Wednesday with a small group of people and from different sectors and they all said the same thing that we're marrying two different huge networks of people that's never really connected before and they love it we love it and it's completely different way of thinking so in the coming weeks we'll be doing more topics about this so you guys can learn a little bit more about it from a legal stance as well as an investment stance so but go get your tickets DME the Diversified mortgage expo.com tickets are live will be in June make sure you get down to Nashville guys yeah it's gonna be awesome you're not big in this I'm trying to get bigger in this but it's not my forte one of the things we try doing is automating um not one of me but kind of when I spoke to the borrower he said you are literally the first person that this loan has been sold like seven or eight times that has reached out to me and he said I have been trying to get this thing back on track and he goes nobody's no nobody no no I couldn't get in contact with anybody and yeah so now it's it's a performing note and what's even and I modified it for him so that way you know I helped him but for me you know it it's um I developed a you know I know you're you you have to same thing with your tenants right you know keeping it professional and personal but with this borrower it's really become more of a friendship with him you know so it was it's a really good feeling being able to help him help him get back on track and then he's been making his monthly payments like clockwork and you know every couple months he'll reach out to me just to say hey how you doing just you know checking on me and you know things like that so it was really amazing that's really cool are you based in South Carolina was that a local note for you no I'm in Cincinnati Ohio oh okay all right yeah fair share in Cincinnati of course uh don't do much there anymore uh we all mostly start in Franklin County as most people who've been around for a while we've bought a whole lot in Franklin but Franklin's probably the easiest County for online records online everything it is amazing yeah in short branching out um you've got into space by mentors resources when was that point you'd gone to the space where you're like wow this is working was it a deal was it a conversation you had was it an event you went to I I think it's all of the above you know it's one of those things where I I knew it was going to work just because you know I saw the returns and and just having with the uh the preview experience that that I had with the uh with the real estate you know rehabbing properties wholesaling um you know subject two deals short sales you know uh owner finance note at zero percent interest you know it's like I I knew all this stuff was going to work and if and if I buy it right I knew I I knew I'm gonna make money you know so it's just having that for me though having that previous previous experience with already in this real estate space I knew once I made that shift you know as long as I buy it right at the yield that I need to buy it at and then if I hold on to it for two to three years then I'm gonna be able to you know make that make that um make that profit and then be able to sell that note to some other investor and make sure that that other investor down the road has a pretty good yield because you know when I every time that I approach these notes you know I'm you know I I want to give my investors or myself the return that that I want to get but also if when I'm holding these things for a couple years you know I want to make sure that that I uh that I give that investor um a good return too so you know I just don't want to leave you know scraps on the bone I I still want to you know have something substantial for that end investor yeah so let's shift gears here for a second you know you're bringing other investors on um you're doing great stuff with it why'd you start marketing was it to gather from other people if they wanted to invest was it to just share and network what was your premise on starting it and was that the outcome you ended up with yeah it's all um you know and that's the thing I know um another Mentor that I had you know he would all you know marketing you know is a moving parade right so you never know who you're gonna who you're gonna touch and that was always something that that I've done uh with my previous uh real estate uh investing was always marketed and you know uh uh postcards and things like that but yeah it's now with LinkedIn and Facebook and and Twitter it's even more prevalent um yeah it's it's about being um at the right place right time because it you know life is a moving parade you never know who you're going to touch or who's going to see your message and you know I I just want to let when I'm doing my marketing I I want to let the like the banks and the hedge funds and you know other note investors know that hey I'm active in this space and I'm buying these notes and I just you know I'm looking at a set of nine I made them out of the nine I made two offers you know one got accepted um you know I have a a Weekly Newsletter that I'll do uh dealer dud and so you know it's like uh some of the properties that I looked at whether they were a deal or some of them were a dud and so that well you know I'll blast that out to everybody but yeah it's just all about basically being in front of that person to to let them know that hey I'm here I'm buying uh the other thing is is the um yeah everybody is kind of you know a buyer seller or a funder right and so as long as you you take that approach and you think of that that somebody's looking at it that may not be a note investor but somebody else is looking at it they see some of my other marketing that I'm doing that there's you know the the above average returns and you're secured by uh you know a tangible asset real estate that they see that and they become uh interested I've had many conversations uh with investors by just seeing my post either on LinkedIn or Facebook um and they reach out to me and we you know we uh if they're local we'll go to you know go to lunch or dinner and have a conversation and you know I just basically just tell them exactly you know how my program works and you know how these are the kind of returns that that I'm looking at and you know and just kind of take it from there so in Cincinnati when you're going for lunch Skyline or gold star Skyline 100 yeah nice we all got introduced as we're going through and doing our stuff and going through Cincinnati and somebody says hey you got to have this chili I'm like what are you talking about and now I crave it order it online oh I love it I love it so you know connecting with local people is a real big thing in the space right if it's not doing it in person you're not flying out there getting on a phone call and talking people because they know the local market right passes the BPO mindset it really kind of gets you deep dive into what areas do I want to avoid whatever it is I don't want to avoid and why do I not want to avoid them because because somebody may not like an area it doesn't mean that I shouldn't invest in it yep exactly the mindset um it matters uh we thought before about the fact that a lot of people put it well it's not a good property well that doesn't tell me anything about the property right yeah tell me what you don't like about it well it's an under 100 000 that doesn't mean I'm not gonna like it I mean I mean you like it or not or the one I hear all the time is is even from Realtors anybody who goes by the house and they're like oh it's in bad shape like that is so subjective what does bad shape mean like are we talking that needs a paint job or are we talking there's mold all over it yes exactly well let's see that's the thing because with all the prop I mean all the properties that I've bought and or looked at right and um and that's very subjective when it comes to bad shape because I'm like I'm telling you there's there's some properties that I look at that somebody goes that is 100 a turret I'm thinking oh my God are you kidding me yeah I'll buy that all day every day yeah that's a nugget right there yeah yeah so let's shoot gears here for a minute when you're talking about your marketing how do you Market what's your tricks and whatnot that you use are you using any kind of um boot Suites are you doing it manually how you doing your graphics for those who you encourage those who are buying themselves to do marketing like they're doing now 100 everybody should be 100 marketing either you know like looking at a deal that you're looking at um uh analyzing it uh or passed on right take that and put that up there so I do a uh several things I use a um there's a program called email octopus and so and so you know that helps with like the marketing and things like that out to like the banks and the hedge funds uh hedge fund managers to make that connection but uh but I also have a a virtual assistant that works for me uh part-time she's doing about what 25 hours a week and between 15 to 25 hours depending on you know what I have um so she'll do the marketing for me um where she'll she'll post um some of my Graphics into LinkedIn Facebook and also on Twitter I know there's a couple different programs like HootSuite and and things like that are you doing the graphics is she doing the graphics uh yeah um uh I do a lot of the graphics um but I'm actually showing her how to do that so you know I'm just kind of giving her General ideas and so and then I'm using for the graphic program I'm actually using canva canva.com yeah it's a really good low-cost tool I'm the same with you right you can get the free one you can pay one but they have some great utilities you can push to different platforms yeah I've learned a little about it but I'm not playing too deep into it um so you did this from what what's your reason for marketing what's your goal that you're hoping for these marketing ads to get you it's uh connections you know uh networking um networking with uh Bank you know I have I have a lot of uh bank managers and hedge funds and then you know I also follow a lot of the bank managers I had the big ones and um I guess uh small to large uh other note investors um so that way they can see what I'm doing that I'm active in this space and then the other thing um is to um to to to uh to appro to have people approach me for private money you know possibly loaning uh money to me um to buy these assets so you know like I said you know somebody's a buyer seller or funder and so I'm I'm always uh looking at it from that I mean case in point um I went to a uh area meeting just as uh past Wednesday night and I hadn't been to a real meeting and God knows how long you know and then it's a little local chapter here and I and I went and um you know he uh they were talking about uh whether a a commercial property's Deal or No Deal and then you know but before that you know people that you get up and you introduce yourself and you know I got up and I said hey you know my name's Larry Hoffman I buy non-secure notes I you know I also create lucrative deals uh to give people an above average return if you need anything if you want any any more information you know reach out you know stop me before I leave and so at the end of the uh at the end of the thing um I had uh uh two people approached me about one um understanding more about the note uh but two also possibly being a funding partner for me fantastic it's all about networking you just got to open your mouth and talk open your mouth yeah you post some LinkedIn you're posting Facebook Twitter where do you think is the best if you had to pick one or three where's your your best secret for those who are listening in or saying I don't have the time to post this stuff um where would you say the best place to start off where do you get the best connection with either funding Capital wise or even that connection yeah I would say LinkedIn is like number one and then definitely Facebook because you know I uh on Facebook you know I have friends and family um seeing a lot of the things that I'm working on um and then they actually reach out to me as well um about you know just being curious about you know what's going on and then potentially being a a private investor at some point in in the future but yeah definitely LinkedIn is not is in my opinion is number one and that's for funding Partners that's for deals oh yeah yeah um are you feeling that this marketing has increased a decrease in the last say six months are you doing more of it less of it what are your feelings are yeah it's I'm doing more and I actually need to do more and um and that's yeah and that's why you know I'm gonna have my VA actually ramp it up um a little bit more you know I don't want to be like too in your face with it you know I I want to post more of the deals that I'm working on uh more of the deals that I passed on uh so that way you know people can actually see that you know that he that Larry is actually out there in the space looking at these deals um and he's making offers on these things have you got a deal pass to you that was just not normal right like a that crazy seller playing steel has any of those kind of crossed your paths or is it pretty much been that other investors assets that they're trying to sell off to you um and have you gotten deals from these posts oh yeah uh I mean um I've got several Facebook people that that reach out to me and a lot of the seller finance notes and um and a lot of times they're just like newly originated me personally I you know I like to see at least you know three months to six months of seasoning for you know and um a little bit of a you know like 10 to 20 percent down uh on the down payment um I mean I'm actually working on one that actually came from a um a Facebook uh post awesome yeah and it's accepted and um so I'm just basically I was in the process of doing the due diligence so I just need to get back with him and to basically finalize it oh that's great that's great what other systems are you doing email wise marketing wise are you doing email marketing as well uh uh would I do email marketing I do um but but what it is it's strictly for the people that opted into my uh to my website um now I I hadn't uh I got off of doing the the weekly uh email every Monday morning I would do a um and and I I stopped like right after Christmas and I just from Christmas up until about now I've just been slammed um so and I need to instead of doing the uh the weekly I'm going to go back to uh maybe just do it um every couple weeks or something like that um and so I send out a email to my private lenders letting them know it's just basically like a um kind of like a catch-up like like I do things I do with my fiance or my kids um and then I have a deal or dud and then I have a real estate section and um and those are for my private lenders but basically I take that same information and then I do a LinkedIn newsletter um and I have and I was sending that out every Wednesday so I'm just going to switch it to either do it every Tuesday or every other Tuesday for both of them and um and I'm telling you that that marketing the um the LinkedIn newsletter and also the um the email marketing to my private lender list it 100 works because it's I'm constantly letting them know that hey you know I'm analyzing a deal I'm analyzing a deal I'm here and then they also get to see more of a personal side of me you know with Joni my fiance or you know my kids that you know I'm just not some fly by my you know person I want them to have a relationship with me you know and this not the business so you get these Assets in you doing a lot of due diligence I do you uh do you have automation tools or systems behind the scene to help you just juggle all this the I I you know with I am I am in the process of creating my own um Macro for Excel right because one or two or five is pretty easy to analyze but oftentimes you know I'll look at tapes where they're you know 30 50 100 and you Whittle them down and then you know like of a hundred maybe you Whittle it down to like say 30.

well 30 it takes a lot of time to do the due diligence on so right now I just have a very very rudimentary Excel spreadsheet macro where it takes those assets and I gotta format them into the right column and it does all my due diligence for me and so and then the next thing that I'm going to do is um there's still some manual automation that I have to do is like go out check the taxes go out check Pacer see if they file bankruptcy um look at the statute of limitations based off the the uh the length of the loan so that way because when when somebody gives you like an unpaid principal balance and it had been collected in like you know 18 years well there's a statue of limitations on what you can actually collect so that true upb or what they're saying isn't what they're you're going to be able to collect on so that you know you got to figure out what you can collect on so there's little things that like those things I still need to manually do but I'm going to try to incorporate all that into I don't think I would be able to do that in this macro but turning it into a like a web service type of thing where you know it'll like scripts where it'll go out and do a lot of that but yeah right now it's uh it's a it's it's a little bit of manual and a little bit of automation Nathan knows where I'm gonna go with that right I do a lot we'll catch up after the show okay I do a lot of that kind of automation that's in blink and eye kind of thing um and a lot of tax stuff I pulled from my own due diligence tools where I can pull five different valuations of property annual tax amounts and bedroom bathrooms see if it's listed for sale see less I have all that stuff there and I also do a lot of spreadsheet automation um so we can definitely talk after the show on okay with that yeah and I'll tell you a big thing for me Dave is um especially with the automation um a big uh I usually um I look at the the yield to maturity and then the irr uh on that just to make sure because you know I I do do a percentage of the uh of the upb in order to get my yield to maturity and uh my irr writes to make sure that I'm within line because I'm telling you there's a lot of times where I'll forget to do that and then I'm like last minute I'm like oh dang I got to go back in and then I also have to add in like the due diligence and then you know like backing out servicing costs and all this other stuff where you know my initial offer thank God I didn't submit it and I'm like last minute it's like I'm thinking I totally forgot to do this this and this and I got to go back in and then reassess it so when you do have those automating automated tools they 100 make a big difference well um I did ask for some questions we just got a boatload of questions at once so I'm gonna try uh me and Ethan go backwards Nathan let you start with the first one uh make sure you mention the name and yes Gabe Cass good old Gabe how you doing Gabe um he's asking about do you use text messaging do you text message your leads uh I don't no um you know that's something that um I was looking at doing that with um with my private lenders um you know that my investor is going to fund the money but I don't know it's one of those things where I just think it's kind of like less personal um and I for me I want to have more of that personal connection with somebody so I just go and you know my let my uh my my private lender list I mean I think it's only about 50 something people or something like that and but out of that I mean I have um I have about 5.5 million dollars right and um and so and I'll just you know I'll just start calling people and just having a conversation but no I don't I don't text message um leads or anything like that I I use texting a lot uh especially with Realtors okay Jacksonville's Realtors just it's just fast and easy oftentimes it's like hey did you check on the property you know something okay I don't need to make a phone call on that and a lot of people are so busy they don't even want to bother like yeah give me a quick thing so we have uh interesting I'm gonna stick with games questions now that's going to bump them together and we'll go back up we have a moral so Gable says what states are you marketing for there are certain States you're trying to Target right now no um uh I I buy Nationwide except for New York New Jersey California and uh Illinois um so uh you know it's um oftentimes though when I get when I do get a tape you know my my top five is you know Ohio Indiana Michigan Indiana uh women Ohio Indiana Michigan South Carolina North Carolina Texas and um and Florida right or top seven so yeah and um Georgia um I do uh I typically when I do buy a in Georgia I usually buy my self-directed IRA um so if I'll sift and sort the tape from those and um and if and if there's not a lot to choose from from there from from those you know like seven or eight then I'll I'll Branch outward but I'm not like I'm not specifically targeting you know specific note investors like that I know has a a lot of notes in like South Carolina um a lot of my marketing is geared towards a lot of the banks and the hedge funds uh so I have you know personal uh relationships with these guys and also servicing companies where they'll send me the uh the tapes and then you know I'll go in and I'll sift and sort what I want and then I'll make offers on them yeah so um I think we'll get tomorrow's question a few minutes um I think what you said there real quick about the Georgia thing for those who may not know there's a licensing requirement in Georgia and if you do buy it I know Gable to test the right but if you do Buy in Georgia and you're not licensed and you're buying in a company name um it's a felony so just for those who are knowledgeable the IRA kind of surpassing because you're buying a private personal name um but check the local law is going to stop standing in Illinois and stuff like that they have debt license requirements that it can be expensive you're not buying enough so I'll let you hit up Mario's questions yeah so uh I'll go with the first one first and then I gotta follow-up to it so do you think the market is is shrinking or or growing what are you seeing out there uh me personally I I believe it's growing um you know and it's uh especially with a lot of the the covet moratorium being lifted and you know and then with the economy and the you know the recession I I I don't care what people say we're 100 in a recession and um and so it is 100 my opinion we're this is just the beginning of it you know and uh there are going to be way more people in default and that's with me buying these notes um my number one goal is to not foreclose on them is to get them re-performing because you know foreclosure is the very last thing that I want to do and if I can help somebody I will 100 help somebody get back on their feet and start making these payments and stay in that house yeah absolutely so his question his second question is what's the change from 2006 to now but 2006 you're doing properties right so when when was your first note oh what was it about a couple years ago yeah okay yeah so what when did you start studying and I started looking at stuff oh God I think I started studying probably about five years ago that you know I started you know like buying a bunch of books and uh courses and things like that and just kind of getting my feet getting my feet wet within the air trying to learn the jargon um and it was once again it was always the uh the analysis of paralysis yeah you know it's and that was a nice thing about it you know having like a coach or a mentor like you know that that you know they've been there and they've done that and you know you can reach out to that person especially in this note space because it's you know it's the the fear of the unknown you know but once you do your first one um it's kind of easier than your second then your third like oh God okay yeah I'm making what mountain out of a mobile building basically it just bottom the bottom line is you just really need to do your due diligence on it um you know look at your numbers do your due diligence and um and you know and then you can always run it by somebody um you know that just to make sure that you're not uh you maybe you're not seeing something that the other person may see yeah and and I mean Dave and I can tell you over the years my goodness you continue to learn yeah there's so many different situations it's almost impossible to anticipate every possible scenario oh yeah so you just you keep learning you keep figuring stuff out you're talking about documentations I thought was a one number thing and I learned just about 18 months ago two years ago that there's six different pillars of sex with patients it's about dates from next due date to last payment date to maturity day to yep you know if start a foreclosure there's so many things and certain states allow certain things so yeah it's definitely a huge thing that we you your calculator can grow and grow and grow until you're just monstrosity like I have right into your network yes but what I will tell you is um the thing uh that really helps me is um especially when you get the collateral file so uh you know you want to make sure that you have all you know uh from the start of the the creation of the loan to when you buy like all the alarm just and all the assignment of mortgages and you know just make sure you have everything and if you don't understand that you can always reach out to an attorney I have an attorney that that I reach out to and I you know I'm like okay I'll send over the collateral I'll look at them and make sure that everything is there but then I'll send it over to him and then just the double double make sure that everything is there and then he'll say hey you're good go ahead with with the deal yeah it's amazing because due diligence everyone's different right so people can find due diligence well I might Define the way I do it make them say differently you're going to say something different um we have some pretty much the same thing we're polar openings for Polar value of properties we're viewing collateral are the big three right um but we also get into servicing notes and we also get into pay history and consistency and as Nathan shows the data tape also has some did points in there like the date of the data that's another key Point um so attention because I mean I got into notes in 2010 I bought my first one like late June 11 and what shifted from then there now is what Nathan said earlier is the collaterals change the asset used to be all underwater uh we used to bid based on percentage of upb because everything was underwater and the fact that we're buying it so cheap that it didn't matter if our calculator isn't wrong you know when you're buying 30 cents now you're buying it 60 65 70 it was a completely different Market back then um and it shipped along all we bought was not performing back then and you'll find now we're buying more performing than ever before because the pricing has changed and our Market has changed because our design return for non-performing is much higher because of the risk levels yeah part of it too is I think we're just getting older Dave and it's just it's let's work the performers are easier to manage yeah that's bks and all stops you know the hassle of the BK Tracy never trustees um and looking at thousands of thousands of assets your brain kind of goes oh right yeah I still like to hustle but maybe not quite as much yeah we got to get our kids doing it hustling for us right that's the goal right I just I just bought a um a note that's in a bankruptcy and um so you know uh bankruptcy Chapter you know 13 and um and I'm telling you it's it's like um you know you do all your due diligence and Chapter 13 Bankruptcy it's a performing note oh and I got it I I got it at a substantial discount um and then I was able to reach out uh or the borrower actually reached out to me uh because I got what I did was I got in contact with the attorney um of the of the BK attorney and I said for a second those who don't know he's saying you cannot reach out to your borrower if they're in bankruptcy they right now you never speak to the borrower in BK and so exactly and so I reached out to the uh to her attorney um just introducing myself to saying hey you know I just I'm the new owner of this note um I want to go ahead and try to do a loan modification because looking over the you know the all the bankruptcy documentation I just felt like the the plan set set her up for failure and I just said I want to go ahead and just modify this loan for and if you could just have her you know if you could talk to her um and then you know talk to to my attorney and then let's just you know get it figured out she sent the letter of the email to her the borrower the borrower called me and she was literally crying on the phone yeah I mean it's seeing that's the thing it's it's such a a good feeling to be able to help somebody yeah um that that's going through such a traumatic experience you know in in their lives it's amazing but you know just 100 you know I kind of got off tangent but 100 do all your due diligence you know before you buy the note BK I know Nathan's I'm big on it I love BK because you're getting the constant payment of the mortgage payment but you're also getting the rear it was like a bonus kick on it right um you hate when BK's uses a tool to avoid foreclosure I get that um but when it's payment it's awesome um I think we answered John question is where your notes are coming from most of the time they come from Banks hedge funds and uh you know other investors who are out there um and you're getting it for marketing people right companies I've seen part of this uh the live feed here let's see some hard marketing from you guys I'd like to see you astonishing and say wow I've seen his name out there constantly you may not remember where you saw it from but if the name stands out because you've seen so much of it um and understand that the algorithms through these social media is right almost three times a day and no one saw it yeah it's just what it is we had a question from Gene um Davis that throughout the years uh you created sop or process map that walks you through the due diligence how do you uh the walk shooter walks you through how do you do your due diligence how do you tell if a note is worth offering on okay how do you know if a note is worth making a bid on it I guess the question well I mean that's the thing I mean that that's kind of like um I guess that's a subjective question you know because it's uh one that I might find you know um acceptable Dave or or Nathan may just like ah we're gonna pass on it you know that that's where it's um subjected subjective um and that's where I gotta look at it on a on a note by note basis um if something can be cured and that's why I 100 rely on my attorney because even though it looks good to me you know within the collateral file I'll send it over time to my attorney he goes well Emmett you know it's missing you know whatever X Y and Z we can't fix this and and then I I'm just I and I go back to the seller I can't buy it because it's it's you know my attorney is telling me it's missing this it can't be cured um you know because I'm always thinking in the long run that you know in a couple years two to three years I may sell this note off to another investor and I want to because the buck stops with me when I buy this note I want to make sure that that collateral file everything is there 100 intact so when I set it sell it to the next next investor they don't have to worry about anything because it's been 100 gone through with the fine-tooth comb yeah so I think what he's asking more about when you're at the tape level and they can offer what makes a note worth making an offer on what makes it not worth making an offer oh I see obviously State's a big versus state I'm presuming you're looking at State what are the numbers are you looking at to decide to even bother looking at that asset oh yeah yeah for sure um I I like notes that are like um typically what I'll do I'll sift and sort and then I'll take the principal interest times 12 or you know take the principle and interest minus the servicing cost of you know like a non-performing note 90 bucks you know whatever and multiply that by 12 so I'll get my uh my yearly um uh principal and interest and then I'll divide that by you know what I'm going to offer to see what my initial interest rate my cash on cash is going to be so if it's if it's like you know like the tens you know 12s 15s you know the cream kind of rise to the top those are the ones that I'm going to start you know really looking at and then I'll start doing a little bit more due to and then looking at the yield of maturity and the irr and then all the other stuff just to make sure you know and if I bought it for X that my you know my my yield of maturity is I I like to see at least 13 or higher and so when I get those yeah and I'm like shoot they look good everything looks good it falls within the states that I like um and then everything comes back with like the taxes uh everything looks good on the collateral file send it over to my attorney he signs off on it you know I'm like I'm all in yeah um we me and Ethan talked about this before what our things are we have certain States we look at um you know one of the first first things we look at is uh interest rates right but I'm looking at a performing asset at three percent um there's nothing you can do to get that Dorito it's right discounted so dramatically um in a yield formula uh we bid everything on our irr but it's kind of the same thing as yields but you can't get a two percent or ten that easily right right I think the big one if you're creating it originating notes and a new Gene does this kind of stuff to entry it's the big one the state it's into the big one too because if you're buying if you're creating in say you know uh Florida versus Texas the time frame is gigantic you know you go from 12 months in Florida plus sometimes sometimes two three to six months Max anything in Texas to go to a foreclosure which means that my return can double A year in Texas while waiting for Florida to work it out so the different variables in the cost differences as well yeah but it and that's the thing you know what we because you did brought up you brought up the interest rates like the lower interest rates I actually um I bought uh six um notes from a um a mid-size uh investment firm and uh a few up three of them they had low interest rates on them um but I got those at about 30 to 40 percent of the upb so it and it met that yield um and I'm it's it's just like it's one of those things where it's right place right time yeah you know he just wanted to unload they just wanted to unload them uh and that's why you know another thing I always do too is I always ask the um the person's what their price expectations are because you know if they're telling you 90 and you're going you're coming back at like 60 I'm like you know you know you're just going to be wasting your time but a lot of times they'll just tell you highest and best because you know they're they're sifting and sorting from all these other people too and that's where it's like even if it's at like a three percent I'm like I'm just gonna go ahead and make my offer and see if um um if uh if it if it takes and then here's the other big thing too is I 100 follow up on all my offers you know and it's just like uh every couple months I'll just follow up and I use um a pipedrive uh as my tool and I have a bunch of swim lanes and I have a lot of things that like these uh these workflows so when I move them into different uh you know Lanes it'll automate like an email out to my attorney it'll uh another one out to uh the BPO and title work and things like that and then I have a task list of things that that need to be done that's awesome so just going back to the you know preferences of notes and and I think that's what makes this such a great Community is because we're competing against each other sometimes but a lot of the time we're not because I have preference this way and you have a preference that way and so it allows us to kind of come together and really collaborate because we're not necessarily direct competitors we sometimes compete on specific assets but a lot of the time we don't and that makes it really fun to be able to get right it's different from a local realtor you know investors buying the same rehab house in the same block we're not exactly a lot of times where like your yield may be different your goal may be different maybe you want the property maybe you're anticipating to get the property back and rent it out where I have no interest in that stock right but some people were like listen I want to do that to get this and get that maybe you're doing by yourself and you don't need the 15 20 yield maybe eight makes sense for you and you can beat me on certain deals right so it all depends on what your angle is maybe you're buying for your IRA which again as long as you beat the market you're okay with it yeah and see Dave you you just brought up because I was just going to talk about that because uh and that's where you have to figure out like what's your money costs are too because you know if you're borrowing money at six percent you need to get at least 12 percent if you eight percent you got to get 16 16 um so that kind of dictates you know the kind of yield that you want but if you are buying it uh in your self-directed IRA I mean a simple eight percent nine percent is sufficient I mean you know it's like where else are you going to make a nine percent return yeah secured by a tangible tangible asset and I'm like I'll take that all day every day yeah yeah so I have two questions before we get the linkedin's question from Rodney have you ever bought or sold a partial and what um but we'll start there go ahead okay no I have never bought or sold a partial I I've had uh made many uh offers on partials okay yeah and do you care how many years are left in a note when you go to buy it if it's one year or 20 years does that change your yeah I like to see it have a you know a little bit of time uh left on it uh because you know and once again it kind of goes back to where you're buying it if you're buying it in your self-directed IRA um if it has a couple you know years on it and if I get it at a pretty good rate you know if I'm making nine ten percent I'm totally fine with that but if I'm buying it outside my self-directed IRA and I have you know uh six percent like money cost or something um then you know then I'll have to get like a 12 return on that um and then oftentimes I've got to cash out my investor two to three years I need to make sure there's enough on that back end where I get cashed out pay him off or her off and then have a little bit of profit on the back end so that's where you you need to look at um where you want to buy it your money cost and how you know how long do you want to hold on to this thing for because all of that comes into a into effect on these things absolutely yeah definitely so the question comes from Rodney from uh our LinkedIn live is um great for those who can help but whatever you what's your experience been for those who couldn't or had to foreclose I'm not sure exactly what that question is referring to but I guess is how difficult is it to foreclose on somebody and what's that if you've done it before what are some of the pitfalls of that uh uh thank God I have not had a uh foreclosed foreclosed on anybody um so you know and it's one of the things um and if you do uh you have uh people and places and systems and you know in place um you know you just reach out to the attorney uh in that state um or a lot of times a lot of these notes are in the process of being foreclosed and if you can't get them back on track you just reach out to the attorney that actually started the foreclosure and just you know kind of pick up where they left you know where the previous borrow borrower left off I have had to foreclose on people and a vast majority of the time I'm foreclosing on a property it's a vacant property they've already moved on they've passed away whatever um so the vast majority of the time it's an empty property so I'm just foreclosing on the property not a person every once in a while I do have to foreclose on a person I hate doing that yeah I hate it but at the same time uh I can't do nothing yeah so so we've got to move forward in one way or another uh in a foreclosure is the way that it needs to go then it needs to go that way and as much as I I really don't like doing that um it is part of the business and that's yeah that's something that you're gonna and you said me before that you've had people cry when they're excited I've also the opposite side where people are crying don't foreclose on me yeah and can you do a mod and the problem is I can't mod someone who lost half their income or three quarters their income because right I just reached where the husband got sick and injured gotten working 15 and he was a breadwinner he got injured could not collect anything he was collecting disability he went from making a lot of good money to making nothing and they could not keep the house financially and I'm not here you know as much as I want to help I can't help the situation the plans just don't change anything yeah and they just couldn't make the deal happen for them and they cried and that I felt bad but at the same time I'm still a business still investor yeah hey Gabe I won't put it in there but Dave mentioned he foreclosed on almost every note he's bought okay um so uh the next one I'll let Nathan ask uh from Facebook yeah is this Gene Davis he's asking uh what's the typical time frame that you tell your lenders that you'll have their funds tied up for uh I I tell them uh between 24 to 36 months yeah I think that's a good time frame and what do you do at the end of it do you cash out do you sell the note what's your kind of game plan for that yeah it's either I'll cash them out um if I want to hold on to the note for for example um the South Carolina one um you know I think I'm going to cash my particular investor out just because you know the personal relationship that I have with this borrower um you know but yeah typically um you know two to three years I'll just go ahead and just sell the note and then you know get the money out cash you know cash that person out and ask them if if they want to play again and if they want to invest the money again and then we'll do another round and that's a good time frame and for people that are kind of getting started just some of the reasoning behind that and Larry tell me if this is right but this is where my mind goes is let's say you've got a 30-year amortized note uh and it's three years in so then you buy it at 20 uh 27 years left on the Node the amount of principle being paid off is still very very low yep so two or three years from now when I go to resell that node that principal balance is still quite high so it makes it much much easier for me to resell it up 100 and that's the other thing with these um when you when you uh modify the notes you start the uh the clock from zero again so you know yeah 24 years 30 years and it's just like I mean that that note um that's modified it was modified last year I mean it's you know it started from zero right and so I can you know that's a conversation I'm gonna have to have with with my investor um do you want to you know it's coming up on two years do you want to you know get cash out or you know you want to leave it in for another two years right right and on that on that one there's there's a lot of time because the uh the uh the principal is not you know it's very little that's being paid down and that's where you know somebody was asking about the length of the uh the term that's where that comes into a uh into account specifically on your exit strategy if you want if you're buying it in your self-directed IRA it's you know to me it doesn't matter because I'm buying it you know if I get a discount if I get my yield they can just totally cash me out but if I'm using somebody's money I got to be cognitive of that to make sure that I have enough on the back end when I go to sell this thing and then also I also try to figure out if somebody's looking for like a 10 11 or 12 percent yield on that money you know two to three years down the road what kind of position is that going to put me in am I going to be in a negative position do I have to come out of pocket or am I am I at a pretty good position so you you 100 have to look at all that yeah all that goes into it so it's yeah there's there's a lot that goes into it so again you're gonna if you haven't done this before I would definitely talk to people who have yeah before you jump into it it's not the easiest thing in the world do Larry had experience before would buy real estate so this Avenue of getting capital is very carefully done right right just be careful you do but at the same time the only way something to learn is by doing which kind of stinks but you got to learn it um because you're gonna run on your own Capital unless you're right really really well which is great um you're running a capital you can go multiple ways um the way Larry's doing you have to be real careful uh Nathan it has a fund uh that he has to see regulated um and then I have private Capital that I have a partner with we have Capital we have planning so in that kind of aspect you get any capital in the space um the one thing that sucks when you do foreclose you're not bringing any money in and you're kind of putting money out you're constantly either a asking for all this money up front or B passing for a draw every time you need to see an attorney yeah and that's the other thing um when I look at the um when I get the tape in um I preferred uh occupied assets you know so that way I can um and especially if they've made the payment within the last couple years or you know um yeah a payment within the last couple years at least they've made some attempt to make a payment then I look at that as a high probability of getting them back on track and and then but if the VAC I was just looking at a tape this morning where sifting and sorting you know I had a bunch of vacant and a bunch of um occupied I'm going after the occupied first and then I was talking to the to that uh to the guy selling the uh the tape um I said on these vacant ones I'm gonna you know be pretty low on it because I'm gonna have to 100 foreclose on these things you know so because you can't go you know if it's gone if nobody's living in it you can't get them back on track they've already made the decision to walk away yeah and from my perspective um you know they're the pro and con to both sides of it if it's vacant it could be trashed right but you could get a decent Loop pretty easily usually if it's occupied they're usually can modify and work things out but they can just plug in the Foreclosure too so there's definitely a two-headed sword either side yeah I don't know if you mentioned this before and I don't see them asking do you primarily buy first or are you buying seconds as well no I just buy first mortgages yeah I just buy first mortgages um I don't do uh seconds I got a buddy that buys second mortgage so whenever you know like a second comes up I'll refer them over to him uh but I'm struggling I've been laying contracts or reverse mortgages are you looking at those kind of uh I do I do yeah um and that's the thing um with the land contracts uh on the um the uh the modification um typically because you know your name is on the deity on the on the land contract I I personally I I do buy them but I don't like it um and so anytime I get a chance to modify it I'll turn it into a mortgage and get my name get my company name off that off that deed because I don't I don't want to be you know I want to own anything I don't yeah I don't want to own anything anymore yeah I get it I get it so we we kind of talked about this a little bit before but where do you see this Market heading like where are we going well uh yeah we were talking earlier um I I see foreclosures definitely you know rising up um I see a lot of you know uh people being laid off and you know with the uh more people being laid off because of the economy and um you know with that people are going to be in the uh we're going to be more foreclosures um so there's going to be you know there's going to be an opportunity where we as note investors you know we can come in and and that's why I love this because it's like you know I I'm yeah I'm able to make money on it but I'm also going in with the the mindset of being able to help the people that want to be help that you know that haven't you know that that maybe something happened they didn't really you know if they did lose their job but they were able to get back on track get another job and make these payments again that you can 100 help people like that and um but and that's why I love it but yeah I definitely see the foreclosures definitely ramping up this year yeah me too we'll see what happens I'm seeing it too um I know that some of the things are kind of slurred and slow down our borrowers are not paying exact same time I'm trying to see that little Trend um keep an eye on it we'll see what happens I know that over the last few years we've significantly higher performing than we expected um it's been amazing ride um but all rides you know all all situations hidden hoes so I need to cycle of that is going to come to an end quickly um and we'll see where the next side goes we just have to be very flexible yeah yeah I appreciate you Larry joining us um I know that uh some of the people here have been really fortunate and they see your post take a look at it on LinkedIn Larry's on there Larry's on Facebook and he's doing some really cool stuff so if you just want to pick his brain ask questions I did put it in the comments the webinar link um forms if you want to fill it out I can share you a lot of information um but definitely reach out to them if you're looking for information or if you have an asset that you're looking to sell reach at the library and see if you can make a deal happen awesome awesome thank you everyone for joining in and we'll see you guys soon I think next one we'll be talking about is March third I think we are yeah we'll be talking wraps and legal stuff and radiation but also buying them which is going to be killer for the year so enjoy everyone how do you Market what's your tricks and whatnot that you use are you using any kind of um boot Suites are you doing it manually how you doing your graphics for those who you encourage those who are buying themselves to do marketing like they're doing now 100 everybody should be 100 marketing either you know like looking at a deal that you're looking at um uh analyzing it uh were passed on right [Music] hey everyone Dave putz from jkp Holdings alongside me as always Mr Nathan Turner hello hello good afternoon I'm in how are you very good very good so another week done um it's starting to get warmer around here in Jersey which is awesome um and I don't know about you but we're seeing assets come out of the woodwork recently it seemed like things are opening up um second quarters becoming uh you know a promptly pair that would probably see some more stuff uh pretty soon we'll see what that looks like um but I'm definitely interested in seeing how transition is and pricing because that's a big thing for us right now is is this worthwhile for people who are you know buying to buy even though inventory is available yeah I actually just Bleak Monday I just put in a fairly large bid on 23 assets and fingers crossed we'll see what happens but uh yeah uh we'll see how pricing comes back it's it's one of those unknowns it's one of those weird times where uh inventory is starting to get more and more and so naturally prices should decrease but uh but we'll see what happens we'll see what happens so um I think right now we are looking at his shifts right um we're coming out of covet craziness um we're seeing some hedge funds that release some stuff and and delinquencies are going to start kind of changing right people are not alone again that funds um I know that I've just heard that like Dell was laying off people um don't know what that's going to mean in the long run however I think that when we look at the stuff um delinquency has always been with notes so it's not like a new thing um it's been something that's been around for since mortgage came around um but we are seeing a shift in the inventory I mean you were looking at too right um in the coming weeks we'll be talking about reverse mortgages yeah we'll be talking more about wraps uh originating it and you know buying those kind of things and a different paper because there was billions of dollars in created wraps which is ridiculous in that angles a lot differently than buying these three and four percent interest loads that we've seen the last three four years yeah it helps us uh as note buyers to be able to purchase it helps us because the interest rates a little bit higher they tend to be anyway yeah so it helps us to be able to keep that machine moving those three percent interest rate loans it'll be interesting to see what happens with those over the next few years yes I don't think any of those are coming up available in our world uh but it'll be interesting to see what the approach is for those because that those are they're going to be tough to move yeah and for those who don't know what mean when you're trying to buy three percent loan we always preach on this topic do you never buy a percentage of upb or BPO that doesn't mean anything it's really buying on that interest rate right so buying in that yield or irr and if that interest rates of three or four to get into a 10 that you're looking for or 15 or 20 whatever you look for the discount is deeper and deeper the farther lower that original interest rate is and we try to encourage people to kind of think differently we're still caring about people buying on percentage of upb which if you want us private talk we can have it and how that just doesn't make sense 10 years ago you could could do that because everything is underwater and there was it was a totally different Market yes 10 years ago sure if you want to buy based on percentage of upb in most cases that made sense but in today's market it just doesn't nope learn and adjust and grow or Die the same way you did 10 years ago well so um we just finished up our second five-week course we're going into our six to ten week course with those people who complete the one through five um uh a couple of previous clients have been on here uh we'll actually have uh one of our recent clients kind of share what we talked about from building a bid calculator to due diligence and then the second six five six to ten weeks we'll be talking about systems and uh or organizing your um vendors and managing them how to do that BK and uh also regime notes and partials and whatnot uh some Advanced strategies yeah it's been probably not this has been really awesome of course because it allows us you and I to talk about how our methods are different even though we talk the same talk yeah yeah and we've both been doing this for a number of years now and and it's interesting to see our different different but similar approaches uh you know the same way of getting to point A to point B Point C but just in different ways absolutely with that said um we're talking about alternative investing not just Bank originated notes which we've bought for many many many years this Market of being self-financed not just seller finance but buying reps and buying reverse mortgages is a huge topic this whole idea can you speak a little bit about this baby of yours DME that's gonna be talking about not just bankriching notes and how those who may not listen those two weeks ago what they're walking into is not going to be a typical note investing conference no exactly and and you know I've been to a lot of conferences over the years and and there's been a ton of talk about non-performing notes because that was a huge huge market for us that I want I don't want to say it's drying up but it's it's not as plentiful as it used to be so we've got to expand we've got to learn we've got to grow and and learn how to do different kinds of notes so a big purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish at DME is I want The Originators to be there as well as the note buyers to be there so that we can come together The Originators have somewhere to sell their product and the buyers have somewhere to buy stuff that's a big meeting of everybody to come together I want people to walk away with deals not just contacts yeah and it's funny we just had a master uh meeting the Minds last Wednesday with a small group of people and from different sectors and they all said the same thing that we're marrying two different huge networks of people that's never really connected before and they love it we love it and it's completely different way of thinking so in the coming weeks we'll be doing more topics about this so you guys can learn a little bit more about it from a legal stance as well as an investment stance so but go get your tickets DME the Diversified mortgage expo.com tickets are live will be in June make sure you get down to Nashville guys yeah it's gonna be awesome you're not big in this I'm trying to get bigger in this but it's not my forte one of the things we try doing is automating um not one of me but kind of systemizing or stuff yeah um well we also try to systemize our marketing as well or at least I try to and I'm not good at it I don't have the patience for it yeah and to me it's like oh right I did more years ago um but I just don't have the time and energy I got small kids I got a lot going on and it to me it takes a lot of time and effort yeah and if you go on LinkedIn or if you go on Facebook right one of the big things I'm going to bring them on as we talk about this here is I see Larry posting constantly and I'm jealous be honestly I'm jealous of you man and this whole idea of marketing and advertising what you're doing I wish more people did it and I'm amazed at what you're doing it's it's astonishing so we want to bring on here to kind of share a little bit about what you've done the past how you got to what you're doing and why you're doing it maybe we're going to write some tidbits down of what we can do better as uh investors so Larry welcome man thank you for coming this afternoon joining us thanks Dave appreciate it hey hey Nathan thank you hey appreciate that so Larry's been in the space for a long time um he has some great connections and he does some great marketing like before we get into that share a little bit about how would you come across note investing did you take classes I need to learn about it yeah well I've been investing I started investing back in 2006 you know I guess just like traditional um buying properties rehabbing them and selling them um you know doing a bunch of lease options short sales subject twos owner financing I've taken back quite a bit of notes right and so I taking that note back like that was the like my first experience I didn't know what I didn't know because this this note space is an entirely different thing from you know from just like traditional you know real estate because you have to have a different mindset and you have to get out of that that you're no longer the rehabber you're rehabbing the properties and um but when I when I when I first got started um I did uh did uh do a owner finance note and I sold it but I took a huge haircut because I didn't know like I said I didn't know what I didn't know in order to do this but I never really made that transition um and then it was just funny I I bought a book it's uh be the bank and I forget the author's name and that was really like the beginning where the light bulb went off for me and then I reached out to uh yeah uh I I took a couple other classes and then I eventually wound up taking mentoring and um and that was the really aha moment for me uh with with getting into this note space where you know if if the younger me would have known what the older me knew now with that note there's no way that I would have took that big of a haircut on that note but you know it's one of those things you live and you learn so for those of looking I did quick Google searching it uh seeing it was written by Benjamin Michael Lyons so for those who are curious about the quick Amazon search so you got into this world of this product you did the real estate thing which I think we all kind of started with right yep and we stumbled across it one pathway or another me Nathan share a story before did you jump in it head first did you have any kind of Education with the real estate uh yeah what started it all for me believe it or not is the Carlton sheets course um I'm gonna be 53 this July so that's dating me and uh so I got the course and then I got the upgrades and all the other stuff um but it was always that analysis of paralysis you know it's like I I knew in my head but I but I there was still that that disconnect right um so I eventually wound up uh once again doing mentoring um he's a pretty popular uh guy um and so and it was a significant amount but I've far made that more uh than just that little investment so yeah it was you know it it's having uh taking classes or some type of coaching or some type of mentoring program it 100 you know takes you from you know from zero up to 180 in a relatively short short period of time and that was a thing for me because I was I was um just kind of like him hauling around with it and not really you know doing anything um and then I took the mentoring and then you know it's like I just started getting the deals one after the other and just rehabbing the properties and selling them talking to somebody yesterday and she's she was talking about wanting to get into notes and everything I said you absolutely can and anybody can do that yep however you've got to learn the business because it's not it's straightforward is real estate and there are a lot of nuances and and when we got started 12 14 years ago pricing was such that we could make all kinds of mistakes and we did uh and we still made money enough that we could keep going but in today's market you've got to know what you're doing yeah what yeah 100 and that's the other thing you got to take that that you got to flip that mindset that you are no longer the rehab or you're the bank right and it's still and I still I still have that you know rehab or mentality yeah you know I'm like no no no no I'm the bank I'm the bank I'm the bank and there's there's a you know there's a complete difference between the two yeah yeah I've done the same thing I'm like yeah how does the bank do this okay I'm in the bank the the distraction for a second I saw the feed on LinkedIn feed kind of died per second so again I apologize hopefully it's better now it's amazing when you ship that gear that mindset change you go through because you don't realize it while you're going through it that this is a whole new world and then it becomes overwhelming right 100 so how did you make that transition and and how did you did you learn by doing did you take a specific class to learn yeah reaching I haven't haven't a mentor um and then also um buying a bunch of books and then also a bunch of uh YouTube videos um you know it's just really kind of you know consuming and just getting that jargon down because there there is a lot of information that you as a note investor have to understand um before buying your first note just you know all the due diligence the things that you have to do to make sure that you know you are in or and or your investors are in a really good spot to where if you do have to take that property back you know you know your exit strategies and you know you're not gonna uh take a bath on it right yeah absolutely so you dive ahead first in this space of this great unknown and becoming the bank right that's a Houston goal from landlord to lien Lords the old thing is your first deal what did it look like it it was amazing it was a non-performing note in uh South Carolina and um and the funny thing is is it it was um you know when I got it you know the uh when I reached out the servicer actually reached out to the to the borrower and developed you know um you know got the phone number contacted him he actually called me and he said that um you uh you are the first person uh let me back up he got the number called him and then he gave the number to me and then I called the borrower and when I spoke to the borrower he said you are literally the first person that this loan has been sold like seven or eight times that has reached out to me and he said I have been trying to get this thing back on track and he goes nobody's no nobody no no I couldn't get in contact with anybody and yeah so now it's it's a performing note and what's even and I modified it for him so that way you know I helped him but for me you know it it's um I developed a you know I know you're you you have to same thing with your tenants right you know keeping it professional and personal but with this borrower it's really become more of a friendship with him you know so it was it's a really good feeling being able to help him help him get back on track and then he's been making his monthly payments like clockwork and you know every couple months he'll reach out to me just to say hey how you doing just you know checking on me and you know things like that so it was really amazing that's really cool are you based in South Carolina was that a local note for you no I'm in Cincinnati Ohio oh okay all right yeah fair share in Cincinnati of course uh don't do much there anymore uh we all mostly start in Franklin County as most people who've been around for a while we've bought a whole lot in Franklin but Franklin's probably the easiest County for online records online everything it is amazing yeah in short branching out um you've got into space by mentors resources when was that point you'd gone to the space where you're like wow this is working was it a deal was it a conversation you had was it an event you went to I I think it's all of the above you know it's one of those things where I I knew it was going to work just because you know I saw the returns and and just having with the uh the preview experience that that I had with the uh with the real estate you know rehabbing properties wholesaling um you know subject two deals short sales you know uh owner finance note at zero percent interest you know it's like I I knew all this stuff was going to work and if and if I buy it right I knew I I knew I'm gonna make money you know so it's just having that for me though having that previous previous experience with already in this real estate space I knew once I made that shift you know as long as I buy it right at the yield that I need to buy it at and then if I hold on to it for two to three years then I'm gonna be able to you know make that make that um make that profit and then be able to sell that note to some other investor and make sure that that other investor down the road has a pretty good yield because you know when I every time that I approach these notes you know I'm you know I I want to give my investors or myself the return that that I want to get but also if when I'm holding these things for a couple years you know I want to make sure that that I uh that I give that investor um a good return too so you know I just don't want to leave you know scraps on the bone I I still want to you know have something substantial for that end investor yeah so let's shift gears here for a second you know you're bringing other investors on um you're doing great stuff with it why'd you start marketing was it to gather from other people if they wanted to invest was it to just share and network what was your premise on starting it and was that the outcome you ended up with yeah it's all um you know and that's the thing I know um another Mentor that I had you know he would all you know marketing you know is a moving parade right so you never know who you're gonna who you're gonna touch and that was always something that that I've done uh with my previous uh real estate uh investing was always marketed and you know uh uh postcards and things like that but yeah it's now with LinkedIn and Facebook and and Twitter it's even more prevalent um yeah it's it's about being um at the right place right time because it you know life is a moving parade you never know who you're going to touch or who's going to see your message and you know I I just want to let when I'm doing my marketing I I want to let the like the banks and the hedge funds and you know other note investors know that hey I'm active in this space and I'm buying these notes and I just you know I'm looking at a set of nine I made them out of the nine I made two offers you know one got accepted um you know I have a a Weekly Newsletter that I'll do uh dealer dud and so you know it's like uh some of the properties that I looked at whether they were a deal or some of them were a dud and so that well you know I'll blast that out to everybody but yeah it's just all about basically being in front of that person to to let them know that hey I'm here I'm buying uh the other thing is is the um yeah everybody is kind of you know a buyer seller or a funder right and so as long as you you take that approach and you think of that that somebody's looking at it that may not be a note investor but somebody else is looking at it they see some of my other marketing that I'm doing that there's you know the the above average returns and you're secured by uh you know a tangible asset real estate that they see that and they become uh interested I've had many conversations uh with investors by just seeing my post either on LinkedIn or Facebook um and they reach out to me and we you know we uh if they're local we'll go to you know go to lunch or dinner and have a conversation and you know I just basically just tell them exactly you know how my program works and you know how these are the kind of returns that that I'm looking at and you know and just kind of take it from there so in Cincinnati when you're going for lunch Skyline or gold star Skyline 100 yeah nice we all got introduced as we're going through and doing our stuff and going through Cincinnati and somebody says hey you got to have this chili I'm like what are you talking about and now I crave it order it online oh I love it I love it so you know connecting with local people is a real big thing in the space right if it's not doing it in person you're not flying out there getting on a phone call and talking people because they know the local market right passes the BPO mindset it really kind of gets you deep dive into what areas do I want to avoid whatever it is I don't want to avoid and why do I not want to avoid them because because somebody may not like an area it doesn't mean that I shouldn't invest in it yep exactly the mindset um it matters uh we thought before about the fact that a lot of people put it well it's not a good property well that doesn't tell me anything about the property right yeah tell me what you don't like about it well it's an under 100 000 that doesn't mean I'm not gonna like it I mean I mean you like it or not or the one I hear all the time is is even from Realtors anybody who goes by the house and they're like oh it's in bad shape like that is so subjective what does bad shape mean like are we talking that needs a paint job or are we talking there's mold all over it yes exactly well let's see that's the thing because with all the prop I mean all the properties that I've bought and or looked at right and um and that's very subjective when it comes to bad shape because I'm like I'm telling you there's there's some properties that I look at that somebody goes that is 100 a turret I'm thinking oh my God are you kidding me yeah I'll buy that all day every day yeah that's a nugget right there yeah yeah so let's shoot gears here for a minute when you're talking about your marketing how do you Market what's your tricks and whatnot that you use are you using any kind of um boot Suites are you doing it manually how you doing your graphics for those who you encourage those who are buying themselves to do marketing like they're doing now 100 everybody should be 100 marketing either you know like looking at a deal that you're looking at um uh analyzing it uh or passed on right take that and put that up there so I do a uh several things I use a um there's a program called email octopus and so and so you know that helps with like the marketing and things like that out to like the banks and the hedge funds uh hedge fund managers to make that connection but uh but I also have a a virtual assistant that works for me uh part-time she's doing about what 25 hours a week and between 15 to 25 hours depending on you know what I have um so she'll do the marketing for me um where she'll she'll post um some of my Graphics into LinkedIn Facebook and also on Twitter I know there's a couple different programs like HootSuite and and things like that are you doing the graphics is she doing the graphics uh yeah um uh I do a lot of the graphics um but I'm actually showing her how to do that so you know I'm just kind of giving her General ideas and so and then I'm using for the graphic program I'm actually using canva canva.com yeah it's a really good low-cost tool I'm the same with you right you can get the free one you can pay one but they have some great utilities you can push to different platforms yeah I've learned a little about it but I'm not playing too deep into it um so you did this from what what's your reason for marketing what's your goal that you're hoping for these marketing ads to get you it's uh connections you know uh networking um networking with uh Bank you know I have I have a lot of uh bank managers and hedge funds and then you know I also follow a lot of the bank managers I had the big ones and um I guess uh small to large uh other note investors um so that way they can see what I'm doing that I'm active in this space and then the other thing um is to um to to to uh to appro to have people approach me for private money you know possibly loaning uh money to me um to buy these assets so you know like I said you know somebody's a buyer seller or funder and so I'm I'm always uh looking at it from that I mean case in point um I went to a uh area meeting just as uh past Wednesday night and I hadn't been to a real meeting and God knows how long you know and then it's a little local chapter here and I and I went and um you know he uh they were talking about uh whether a a commercial property's Deal or No Deal and then you know but before that you know people that you get up and you introduce yourself and you know I got up and I said hey you know my name's Larry Hoffman I buy non-secure notes I you know I also create lucrative deals uh to give people an above average return if you need anything if you want any any more information you know reach out you know stop me before I leave and so at the end of the uh at the end of the thing um I had uh uh two people approached me about one um understanding more about the note uh but two also possibly being a funding partner for me fantastic it's all about networking you just got to open your mouth and talk open your mouth yeah you post some LinkedIn you're posting Facebook Twitter where do you think is the best if you had to pick one or three where's your your best secret for those who are listening in or saying I don't have the time to post this stuff um where would you say the best place to start off where do you get the best connection with either funding Capital wise or even that connection yeah I would say LinkedIn is like number one and then definitely Facebook because you know I uh on Facebook you know I have friends and family um seeing a lot of the things that I'm working on um and then they actually reach out to me as well um about you know just being curious about you know what's going on and then potentially being a a private investor at some point in in the future but yeah definitely LinkedIn is not is in my opinion is number one and that's for funding Partners that's for deals oh yeah yeah um are you feeling that this marketing has increased a decrease in the last say six months are you doing more of it less of it what are your feelings are yeah it's I'm doing more and I actually need to do more and um and that's yeah and that's why you know I'm gonna have my VA actually ramp it up um a little bit more you know I don't want to be like too in your face with it you know I I want to post more of the deals that I'm working on uh more of the deals that I passed on uh so that way you know people can actually see that you know that he that Larry is actually out there in the space looking at these deals um and he's making offers on these things have you got a deal pass to you that was just not normal right like a that crazy seller playing steel has any of those kind of crossed your paths or is it pretty much been that other investors assets that they're trying to sell off to you um and have you gotten deals from these posts oh yeah uh I mean um I've got several Facebook people that that reach out to me and a lot of the seller finance notes and um and a lot of times they're just like newly originated me personally I you know I like to see at least you know three months to six months of seasoning for you know and um a little bit of a you know like 10 to 20 percent down uh on the down payment um I mean I'm actually working on one that actually came from a um a Facebook uh post awesome yeah and it's accepted and um so I'm just basically I was in the process of doing the due diligence so I just need to get back with him and to basically finalize it oh that's great that's great what other systems are you doing email wise marketing wise are you doing email marketing as well uh uh would I do email marketing I do um but but what it is it's strictly for the people that opted into my uh to my website um now I I hadn't uh I got off of doing the the weekly uh email every Monday morning I would do a um and and I I stopped like right after Christmas and I just from Christmas up until about now I've just been sl....