Note Investing Due Diligence After Accepted Bid Offer | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: Note Investing Due Diligence After Accepted Bid Offer Dave's Goals and Plans: - Orders BPO and uses local agents/investor friends to drive by properties and confirm value before ordering title search - Pays for agent time and effort to get solid property valuations and neighborhood insights after bid acceptance - Prioritizes collateral file review by attorney or collateral management company as soon as possible - Conducts drive-bys to verify property still exists and current condition before closing Nathan's Goals and Plans: - Changed strategy from ordering BPO and title search simultaneously to getting value confirmation first, then ordering title search - Orders BPO immediately upon bid acceptance to avoid discovering drastically different values later in the process - Staggers BPO and title search reports rather than ordering simultaneously to allow time for value verification - Plans to launch earnestinvesting.com website and is preparing to raise capital for new fund Key Recommendations: - Confirm property value before ordering title search to avoid wasted time and resources if values don't support the deal - For single notes, spend time knowing the property details; for 50+ note portfolios, prioritize quick BPO and title ordering - Verify comparables are local and relevant when reviewing BPOs, check Zillow or similar tools to validate valuations - Have legitimate reason to back out if red flags emerge - this business expects you to close once offer is accepted - Adapt timeline expectations - modern closings are 7-30 days, not the 3-5 days of 5-7 years ago Topics Discussed: - Post-acceptance due diligence procedures and timeline - BPO ordering strategy and value confirmation process - Title search and collateral file review timing - Risk mitigation through property inspection and valuation verification - Differences between single note vs.

portfolio (50+) due diligence approaches - Legal and reputation consequences of backing out of accepted offers Guest Insights: - Nathan Turner transitioning brand from 'Canadian Guy' to 'Earnest Investing' company name - Emphasis on adapting due diligence strategies based on evolved market timelines and deal sizes - Property condition is the primary risk factor in first lien mortgages that needs mitigation cool so ernest is the the home company canadian oil guy was always just uh like doing business as name but canadian no guy is is has been great and now people still want to call me that that's great but uh but the company has always been earnest ink so earnest investing is going forward uh our fund is ready uh i just have to set up the bank account and then we're starting to raise capital so we're excited to get that going yeah so you know guys i want to make sure you guys go into his website as well content's there right he has information year's experience and you know definitely take a look at youtube um hit that subscribe button i was told by my assistant lauren make sure you describe the bell so you get all these good updates but tune in to what we share but also what nathan shares well so look them up and all that stuff we wanted to dive in today and what we're going to talk about is a topic that um i'm sure we've shared before about but it's really drilling in on what happens when you accept the offer and we talked about the paperwork whatever but we didn't really dive into the due diligence what do you do for we know the pre-due diligence the bpos or reviews assets but now you've got the bid offer accepted now we got the scary part right yeah yeah 100 assets or one now you really need to hone in and you only have a matter of days right where pre-due diligence could be a lot less yeah and it's easy to kind of scratch the surface on all this stuff but but it's pretty detailed and and it's important to get into it and make sure you know what you're looking at what it means uh what stuff doesn't matter that you're looking at and and how you can move forward from there yeah with that said you know i would say for me that is probably the most scariest part right because now the next step is funding yeah right so you know when you get into the pre stuff you can always find a way to just ask on the ass and not make an offer now the offer has been accepted now what right and and again this it's not like real estate where you can just throw out a whole bunch of offers and just kind of yeah hope and you know the shotgun approach and you'll burn bridges very quickly in this business where you make an offer you get a bit accepted it's expected that you will close on that yeah it's it's not a typical thing and it's not a normal thing to back out there has to be a good reason um and if there's a good reason you can for sure but uh but you're going into this with good intent and you know the ability and promise to perform and and we're not saying you can't get out of a deal right but you lead literally have to have a legitimate reason right we've got to have deals where the collateral paper was questionable and we said listen can you fix it the answer is no or the house disappeared the values change all those kind of little things can make a deal different right yeah so uh feel free we're on facebook live right now you can definitely ask questions there whatever you need to do um but we're just gonna chat away here if no one has questions kind of just roll through things now what you're gonna find out is that sometimes me nathan may differ on what we do here and that's great um just know the fact that's available right um now nathan you get an email from the seller bid's accepted yeah what's your first step usually what do you first do first thing i do at that point is i order right away so here's what i used to do here's what i do now what i used to do is i would order bpo and e at the same time and i'd get both of those done right away uh and what i found was it was happening more often than not or often enough that it was becoming a problem is i would get that bpo back and it was drastically different like i i had value i you know on on paper what i could see online and everything i'd come up with a value of 75 and i'd get this bpo back at 50 and i go oh well that's a totally different story um and especially if it's an underwater loan you know if there's no equity in there then that matters a great deal so i've actually i've changed it up a little bit where as much as i can i'll i'll get a confirmation on value before i order the only true and i i get the impression you tell me what you find but i think that back five six seven years ago it was um been accepted you're closing within like three to five maybe seven days and now i i feel like that's stretched out a little bit not a lot but enough that i can stagger those two reports at the very least yeah and i i definitely agree with you i think that you know things have changed over the years i think is we need to adapt to what you know is available now so yeah um and in newer people down in the space and so they're kind of understanding that um and bigger companies are used to trades being a lot bigger so three four days to do 100 assets is not enough yeah exactly so they definitely adjust that um i think for me you know they expect you to be able to review that collateral get your bpo get your own e within 72 hours and be done um i would say that's not always possible um because a lot of attorneys or whoever's review your collateral if it's outside source they want to see the l a before they even look at that actually yeah yeah the cloud file yeah so so that's important i what i often do is for me for bpo is i email out to all my agents all my investor friends if they're local to a property it's automatically done and i get a feel before i bid on it what i know about it it's my value's pretty confident what i do when the bid's accepted is then i just have them go out there and drive by the property make sure the property's still there make sure the value is pretty still on um and do things like that so i think for me that worked out well yeah yeah and it's interesting because sometimes and it's it's interesting how there's a standard but but there's quite a bit of variation in that standard so we'll get a tape and it'll usually have the same kind of information um but it depends on who it's coming from and and what the background is sometimes they'll have like a current status so it'll tell you if they've started foreclosure other times you don't get that information at all and so that's verifying all that information is is a big deal true when do you typically order that o e so now i typically order that after i get uh some kind of confirmation value whether that's a bpo or i've already got an agent in that town and they can drive by that's usually faster if i if it's in a town i'm already in and i've got a realtor they can usually get that information back to me like within a day maybe two so then i'll order the only after that yeah for me i'm pretty much the same with you on that right where we would do something where we we get the value confirmed we talked to the agent or the investor and say listen our bid's been accepted we're moving forward i need a really good solid value from you you drive by the property i have no problem paying for that time and effort i want you to dive into this property right um let me know what you know about it if you happen to see a neighbor and wave to them and just ask a question that's great you really just know about what that property is it evolved now if you're doing uh brian's question howard we'll get to your question in a few minutes brian you asked the question you know what is wonder onenote versus multiple no purchase package when you're buying a five or ten you can still do the same process here right when you're buying 50 plus you've got to go bigger right so we've done that where we just order the bpos you kind of know the fact you're gonna get some home runs and some bad ones so you're oh you're you're ordering your ovens for your your title ownies you're ordering your bpos and typically as soon as you can get a collateral file review either by your attorney collateral management company or yourself yeah yeah and it it's it's kind of a how much time do you have to do that if you've if you've been given 30 days to close go ahead and look at every one of those yeah given you know seven to ten days you probably just simply won't have time yeah uh to go and and you know man and look at every single one of them yeah interestingly enough you know when you buy the one-off deals you're really gonna spend the time to know about that but understand you're not gonna know it inside out right you don't know all the problems so there's nothing to prevent you from being in a bad spot so and that's that's the risk of this business and you know there's always a risk in any investment you ever do and that's it for this it's when we're talking specifically about first lien mortgages is what kind of condition is the property that's that's really the number one risk and we're trying to mitigate that as much as possible and get whatever information we can but there's no way to know everything about that property and absolutely all the potential pitfalls yeah and when we look at these bpos or values make sure the property that they're copying is local right make sure that they're not two miles four miles away when you're inside of you know a city and if it's in a country area where it is kind of diverse just check out what you're looking at take a look at zillow or like our website and say listen the comms make sense read over it because that person doesn't care about as much you do right um you know one of the things that when we do go get the drive by is i want hey fellow no investor are you looking to learn the basics of note investing so you can get started however you don't want to spend a few hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours online on some training program have you thought about attending a notes conference however you don't want to spend the money or the time away from your family well we have a tremendous beginners video series of 20 different topics with each video being less than 15 minutes this means each video is less fluff and direct to the content visit www.jkpholdings.com beginner dash series to learn more again www.jkpholdings.com slash beginner dash series pictures i want to see what the house looks like we've thought before i don't want your opinion i just want the facts of what it is yeah you know don't don't tell me you think the roof is three months old show me what you are seeing that concerns you and let me know what that looks like right yeah when i'm looking at that bpo one of the most valuable things to me is you know you've got all the stats and the side-by-side comparisons but really one of the most uh valuable pieces is where you've got realtor comments and um there can be some really pertinent information on there that just doesn't fit in the chart yeah when you're putting down just raw numbers they'll say you know it's a whatever it's a really good neighborhood really bad neighborhood it's a good school district whatever that'll show up in the comments and that can be very valuable if they fill it out properly if they're just putting like a you know a copy and paste disclaimer in there then that's not so useful but that's where i want to see you know what's what's really going on what's the real information of what's happening in that area yeah and i want to like i said i want to see what the property is surrounded by right a lot of times we may be the best house neighborhood we may be the worst both have a piece right you're the worst house neighbor that would be a good thing we know we have some update if we're the best house neighborhood we have some problems i want to know what the worst looks like i want to know the other are competing against yeah um one of the facets we'd like to know is is it near a school right is it near church the main road nearby that diversifies that city town area and said this is the bad side of good side that information is valuable it lets us know some more stuff yeah it's really interesting you know if you think back i know i've lived in a couple of different cities in my life and and if if it's you know on the east side of this road or this river or this railroad track or or something there's usually some kind of dividing line you know north east southwest um there's something there usually there's some kind of dividing line uh that we'll say on this side is really good on this side not so much yeah and you know above or below this or on either side and it's as much as you can it's good to know that kind of information it's so true right we don't realize what we what because we know our own home ground we don't realize if we look at a map and think oh okay it is what it is it begs the question so the next thing we we typically look at is this o e thing right for those who don't know what it is it's when you buy a house and you get a mortgage they do a title search the title company confirms that that property has no prior liens and they give you an insurance policy just basically dumping it down that tells you that property is clean of any kind of leads yeah you're buying it clean yeah well at that point we don't need to know what happened before that purchase we just need to know when that purchase happens till now what's happening so that's often a lot cheaper than buying a full title yeah 200 bucks or so we look at the fact that what happened from that point to now what the tax duration is what other liens have come on all those kind of facets this is also typically faster like a full title you're talking about like sometimes a couple of weeks where in this you're talking maybe a couple of days yes so interesting enough we also get into a spot where these ons tell us a lot right it will often have collateral files for us they also have um foreclosure sometimes stuff in there it tells us taxes it tells us the the order of the liens have been recorded it tells us you know if if something's missing and not been recorded now maybe in the file they may not be recorded so um howard asked the question and what's a procedure for looking at the title and what should i know about the title right we want to know where the liens are what positions they went down yeah where taxes are are they paid not paid what other liens may be still on the property mechanics liens tax liens county liens water leans sometimes it's not on there oftentimes um one of the one of the real tricks of a key piece of information that's often not on a title report like this is delinquent taxes that have been sold that's usually not on there it'll show up because when they're doing it they're looking just from the county records and they'll say uh on the county records it'll just say paid what it doesn't say is purchased by somebody else and then they're holding it as a lien uh great point there's no way around that yeah but it's a little bit more involved so what he's basically saying is if that taxes are current they're not current because the buyer the borrowers paid them they could be current because someone bought the tax lien so if you look at it and you say okay so the borrower hasn't paid for the last two three years but the taxes are current and that's the red flag yeah why would they pay their taxes and not their mortgage there's there's some kind of disconnect there sometimes it's just as simple as that they paid their taxes but not their mortgage but usually uh that's an indication of something else and typically that's that the taxes were sold to a third party it also could be a situation where the lender has paid those taxes it was so current and that's going on top of your advanced you know events um proceeds to corporate advances so those are added on but we want to see where those things are and in the in really cool but in the lean part is the mapping right we look at it all time we want to make sure the chain that's recorded is in order yeah from company 8 it goes to company b the next line says company b to company e and you're like whoa whoa whoa how did c go to like b go to d it didn't it skipped so we need to find out a doesn't have it in the file and b we need to record it and get in the right position and you know there's all kinds of things that we can see and all kinds of little uh things that are wrong in there like 99 of those are fixable it's it's not that it's like a total disaster and that's gonna wreck the entire thing um that just that's the hair on the loan that you're gonna have to manage and not that it's necessarily a bad thing it's it's probably extra work but it's doable and you can take care of that and it's not yeah insurmountable no right we just need to know that right in the person reviewing your file wants to see that because they're going to say hey listen it's an exception the fact that this has been here and not recorded or this is not in the file and it's not recorded right right and depending on the state you could figure out things of you know uh when something is missing in the file how do you go about it the attorney will walk you through that some states allow you to have missing documents and have a copy of it bring all stuff i won't get too detailed in there for you guys but you can work it out yeah so these hopefully how are we asking answer your question um the next question we actually came in i'll put into our chat here for us let's actually go back to the liens for a second yeah the liens can be an interesting thing and and this is just going to take some experience and uh you know time to get it figured out because we're in first position um some liens matter to us and the other ones don't yes good point so the one of the craziest ones that i ever saw was uh the the lien holder was a united states government and i went what is that it turned out it was like uh like a seizure something or other some like drug bust kind of so i i didn't buy that one because that to me was a deal breaker [Laughter] so that that takes precedent over the first lead mortgage um but a lot of them don't and so you don't need to you can see you know they might have a bit of a laundry list of liens on there they don't necessarily all matter to you yeah and it does iristly know the fact that they can redeem i think it's 210 days correct me wrong 20 days a redeemed now granted the irs probably has like only a few million dollars for the entire country to redeem anything yeah right and if they do they're going to go after the ones who actually have more equity or whatever situation so more than likely not to worry about that's actually just an extension on to your redemption period right it's not clean title clinical right but when we say this kind of things you know you can look at these liens and know the fact that we have a situation where an hoa started a foreclosure growth in ohio and we're okay with it great we knew the fact we were in second position or we're in first position they can't jump us and i'm sure before they actually did because the person i bought it from never actually answered the claim so we're actually out of the case so when you get this kind of stuff and you see that the foreclosure started with the document go and see look at the document i didn't i had presumed look at the document and say what happened in the foreclosure and i said they're going to sit and wait they probably started it and they're just sitting back and waiting for someone to do something else well they started foreclosure within a few months of me modding it and it just was craziness so read all the documents and see you can see a lot in that in that o and e we call title it's not really a title query it's a part of a title but it's not and it really is just kind of you you'll get comfortable with it you'll read it and you'll see you know a dozen of them and you start to get an idea of an idea of what's what's on there and what matters and what kind of information you can get on there and most of them are the same format yeah mostly same format you can know where to go with things right documents the bottom line if you order from pro title and alex and over there so those kind of things happen um so doug asked the question what is the procedure you do to check to make sure the tax lien has been sold or how do you find out what anti-purchase tax plan all right so for the tax lien um there's a couple things you can do one of the easiest things you do is just call the county and say hey i'm just checking in on these taxes can you just let me know if there were any that were sold uh it'll take you two minutes and you'll be able to get that information uh if you don't feel like getting on the phone you can order a report i think that they still do this uh through um who was it dang black knight like that yep uh they did uh they would do a report i haven't actually ordered one for quite some time uh i called accounting because it's yep two minutes yeah um but they do offer that report and it's cheap i back when i was ordering them before it was like 12 or 14 or something like that like they're really not expensive and it was a really good report uh but it just i can call so i'll call yeah absolutely i agree with you totally you know for me it's the time i need right i make a quick phone call the county records remember all this stuff is public knowledge it's not that it's hidden behind closed doors it's all public information for everyone so make sure you kind of check that stuff out um so let's go to our next step what are you typically looking for now one of my next items is typically annual taxes right um knowing the fact that the annual taxes are the dollar amount what they are because i need to know it from my calculation yeah i'm going to foreclose administration and say take me six months i need to estimate the extra tax that were due plus what moves forward yeah i can't forget the fact that taxes are still accumulating yeah yeah no that's a great point and that's definitely one that i look at as well uh you can get up into ohio or someplace where it's like four thousand dollars a year on this little you know thousand square foot bungalow versus one for example i've got down in mississippi and it's 600 a year so that makes a tremendous difference to my numbers uh so i want to just make sure i know what that is so like for this one in mississippi um we had to listen for sale we actually just went into contract for somebody we're selling doing a seller finance deal and we were looking at you know as we're holding it we get a tax bill and well do we need to pay that right now or can we wait until we're selling it it's seller finance and now we're gonna have to pay it anyway or if we sold it uh through the realtor just the cash deal that would have come out of escrow so rather than having to come out of my pocket it would have just come out of escrow and it's 600 bucks so i don't care yeah in this case i'm gonna have to pay it but i was willing to put it off because it's 600 bucks and then the penalty on that's gonna be an extra 20 bucks so i was willing to let that go yeah just so i didn't have to come out of pocket for that it's funny because you know uh same story like i was remember being in a car couple years ago we had a property in alabama for closing on it was auction day and i had to come up with the dollars to pay out yeah i'm like telling my wife like oh my god i forgot i got to make the payment for the question and where you saw our tax bill right yeah in new jersey and the tax bill was like 423 dollars yeah her first question was is that for a quarter right like we're you know thousand dollars tax bill a year and that's for the whole year so yes can taxes make or break you depends what state you're in yeah if it's most likely a state with lower taxes you're not gonna be killed it but you need to know it right you need to know projecting out you're buying in ohio and you have 18 months you're maybe your backpacks work for five grand because it's always already one year behind now you're adding another year and a half on you have to add that into it yeah because that adds up really quick yeah and you know with that said we need to know what were tax if the taxes sold some states there's interest on that so we need to know should we pay it immediately to stop the interest from growing yeah so alabama is notorious for this where uh you sell it as a like it'll sell as a lien and then the lien holder they can go in and start making improvements to the property they can they can do all this stuff and then charge it back to you so i've had that a couple of times and that's not very fun so if i hear about one that's getting close alabama is one where i make sure i pay it just because that will add up extremely quickly oh my god yeah it's it's tough right um and now understand that like alabama has a a redemption period of 180 days right but you can typically sell an asset down there because they already know the process they're used to it the buyers know about stuff just do that the other thing for alabama that's just a pain is anytime the taxes sell as a lien it's a process like you've got to go uh you've got to get with the county first of all and they send you out a document uh i don't even know the amount yet so they'll send me out a document i have to sign it saying i'm redeeming the taxes then it goes to the person that bought the taxes that person then just signs and says yes i'm i'm willing to you know i'm good to do that they then send that back to the county along with any of the charges that they've tacked on there and then i finally get my number so i for like a month month and a half i don't even know how much i'm paying on this if you know so it's it's and it's just a process and it just takes way too long but anyway and we we put all this into our beginner series this this whole thing into a slideshow so if you ever want to record it go back to it it's our beginners video series but you know one of the questions that came up was about you know i'm going to turn around and get to your question in a second but i'm going to piggyback on the question because i find it most people know in ohio there's certain parts of ohio that have a bond that technically the whole state is a ten thousand bond they typically when you start foreclosure you have to put up some counties it some don't and that bond is oh we're going to use it for lawn mowing this is and it it's there is no you choose what pricing it is they just bill it and you put the 10 grand up and they weather it down it's to prevent houses from looking like crap and keeping houses up so far cuyahoga county is one of the worst for that oh my god yeah yep so cleveland ohio again it's not necessarily a deal breaker but just know what you're getting into yeah it's a pain just know the fact that that's there um and there's some states where if it's vacant you have to post that in ohio is one of them you have to post that vacant and there's a charge if you don't um it's just stuff like that that's nico and diamond which is great just being aware of it and knowing it and calculating it is the biggest gamut yeah so turn ask the question is debt license required in ohio so i'm going to tell you it depends um so we actually just sent out our angle um questionnaire to a bunch of our attorney friends and ask them for updated court fees um debt license questions um and whatnot so seconds are more regulated weirdly enough than first for my understanding and i didn't look at the stats yet um we sent it out yesterday but yes in ohio um from my understanding my recollection his seconds are actually get license requirements see if these are going away basically they're kind of pushing them out but first right now from my understanding nathan and correct me wrong you don't require it yet that's my understanding as well okay there was a thing a couple of years ago uh where they had talked about it and it was it was some kind of crazy requirements they said like you had to have an a physical office in ohio and this and that yeah i think that's all been settled where as long as i'm not even going to try to get it right because i don't remember the details but bottom line is it hasn't stopped me from buying in ohio yeah um and it's you know regulators making rules without full understanding of how it actually works yeah and i think that's been kind of more or less regulated and ohio is a state that we all bought in a lot right because ohio is a really big state we all bought columbus ohio for years um in these states have different things one of the things you also have to look into and we're actually going to send us out a few weeks for our returning friends is redemption i mean um um statute limitations you need to know yourself keep limitations depending on the state right if a payment has been made in four years are you okay certain states are three some are five summer states depending on when the foreclosure started there's all kind of parameters right and we're just updating our records we have a understanding but that's something you also have to know when you go into the opposed to diligence making sure that what you see on the tape matches what the collateral file says so if the last payment date was you know stated on the tape to be last year and you look in the servicing records and it's not boom now you have concerns yeah yeah and it's it most often it goes by last paid date uh last date paid so you've got that you know that clock starts there um and then you get into other places where okay the statute of limitations says that uh you just can't collect anything that was due before this date so i i get you you've just got to kind of check it out and check with the local attorneys and they can help guide you in that check with a local attorney who's a foreclosure savvy yeah and ohio was a bunch of them um me and nathan is one that we actually i don't hear many people talking about um but you know there are plenty right franco's one of them um we use someone local also in ohio and columbus area um thomas novak and stuff like that um and whatnot but yeah check with the attorneys out there right they'll have more knowledge and understanding debt buyers license as well as all the other rules and regulations one that we forgot to mention is when you call that county to find out about taxes make sure the property's not on demolition list right right if you see the property in poor condition yeah i would ask that question right you know and they ask about county utility as well why you're in a phone call is it because county utilities is not always on that that o e report now i just had an interesting one just this last week uh it's in akron ohio and we're just we're in the process of the foreclosure uh deceased borrowers i think anyway they're not there and uh i had a situation where this city um code violation lady she called me and she said you know we're getting reports there's people coming in and out of the house and all this so i had somebody go out there and and secure it boarded up and everything else um and she was the coolest code violation lady actually i've had a couple of really cool ones but but she's really cool and very very helpful which is fantastic but she's saying you know so we issued this uh citation and all this and and you know gave the laundry list of things that need to get done on the property she's like the reality is that none of them are a big deal they're all a whole bunch of me you know minor repairs that need to get done and she says like i'd even be willing to talk to uh whoever's looking at purchasing this after you're done i'm like oh wow fantastic thanks so you know on record it shows all this you know order from the city this and that so it looks bad but she's saying no it's really not um she actually issued it really for my behalf so that they could go in there for the people and say like no there's all this stuff wrong see you've got to leave and using this ammunition to get them out that's awesome but she's she's really cool and she's just like no no it's really not a big deal and i'll talk to your buyer and tell them really it's not a big deal it's like wow you know fixing the gutter in this spot and you know little things that are not a big deal so anyway you get those sometimes yeah so before we get to other laundry lists you know what we'll do sometimes not always is look for the borrower yeah because i'll see if i can find them i'll i'll do a quick search nothing crazy right um i'll look at linkedin i'll look at facebook i'll google the name i'll google the address i google address one time and say house fire oh crap right um but look at the borrower great i always show the story that i was on facebook looking up one bar or and their son was rapping to the house and walking through it now it was like two weeks prior and i'm like i got interior photos yeah i know the interior conditions house so you just want to find out what's going on hey i'm at the hospital again um i didn't get a job or hey i finally got a job yeah those little things if you're doing one-off fields or five whatever you can do that you can spend the time you can hire vieta just search them out find out the borrower's story yeah yeah and if if that means that you can avoid doing a full foreclosure and they'll just do like a cash for keys or a mod or something oh my goodness you save so much time and and money and energy and everything so it's it's definitely worth it i don't look at all of them i don't look for all of them but yeah you know even when it makes sense uh when something sounds weird that's when i kind of dive into look at a borrower right yeah we have a solution where the house is very conditioned it looked like they locked up we did trash out or that we got it was just in a bad spot we went around the property and we looked them up they were actually church goers who moved to go i guess he was a preacher and he was going to california to preach and just kind of vanished and i found him on facebook and i bought the loan i got beaten lou and it was dawn i mean it was very easy yeah it was just kind of weird things like that so yeah um what one thing we also want to get into is you know modification forbearances and reading these files knowing what it is know the time period knowing the fact that what's been pushed off and make sure it matches the tape information once again right yeah if the ubb doesn't match up or the payment amount doesn't match up the maturity of the match up make sure those things line up because the terms may have changed yeah yeah and that is is so useful and helpful to get through um if you can get the servicer's notes yes so here's i've had this a couple of times now where i'm looking through the services notes and i'm looking at the communication between the the mortgage owner and the servicer and oftentimes um whoever selling the note is not the same one who's working the note yes so they'll have all kinds of stuff like where it's like this close to getting worked out one way or another uh and and the seller's saying we'll sell it too for this price i'm like are you kidding me absolutely yeah that close to a resolution yeah uh so i'm able to get a a better deal that way and the flip side the borrower is arguing screaming heady you know whatever happened or hey listen my father died i'm looking to make things work out all those kind of little things just give you insight we had somebody who was seasoned probably about five years ago or so and that question came up through someone else and says you can't get service notes and i says well there are a few services that kind of hold off on that i know a few of them but most of them yes you could definitely ask for servicing notes in history ask for them right if they don't question it there's there's one service out there that i know it doesn't but you can absolutely pull down and if they don't give it to you i personally don't know if i trust buying the asset yeah the why not you know you gotta ask that question what's what are you trying to hide then because that's kind of weird yeah i've had that too where i saw one it was kind of a funny one where it was a lone down in texas and the back and forth was crazy where this lady was just bringing up all kinds of ridiculous arguments and you know this and this and it was it from what i could read it just looked like it was a never-ending saga and i'm like i'm not sure i want to walk into that not for this price anyway and so i brought that up and they wouldn't budge on the price so i'm like okay well no you know that's not worth my aggravation uh so the next thing we want to get into is you know you know the title policy i'm going to hold off on my list here because we were taught by before you know the fact that if there is a problem with title once you buy it and a lien does appear you could file a title policy claim and you could get paid off the entire balance alone because the third mistake so just know the fact that's available we've also heard modifications of prevalences keep in mind if you see in the service notes that a mod is pending this happened to us make sure you reach out and talk to the seller and make sure you talk to ask them to make sure they talk to a servicer that they freeze it before you buy it or let me know the terms of your negotiation or what possibly could happen because if that goes through everything else changes yeah yeah i've had that where they're they're working on a mod great what are the terms yes i want to make sure those terms work for me at the price that i'm buying the note at yeah and we've had situations where you know you can always take a lump sum of money and put at the end alone with no interest right where this is a balloon at the end and it's not accumulating interest fall and that may change everything right and if they change the terms years you know amounts p and i and it's different from that initial tape data that's when the problem begins right yeah so first place insurance now i've talked about this i think i'm blowing my face here if there's fourth place insurance in place you need to know that for for expenses to know that you're going to be paying this out you should be getting it back you should be but it could be expense you need to understand that you may take if you're going through a proposal and there's two different policies no two remember we talk about the fact that there is a one policy type that you can file on if you own it and it was the old policy and a certain one where it ends when it gets sold right so depending which policy you have um you need to make sure that you that you if there is a policy on it that it's one that can transfer over right right but at the very least get insurance yeah if you're not sure insure it yeah you never know what's going to go on and the cost of the insurance is not prohibitive it's it's not super duper expensive and before anyone asks what do you insure properties for everyone has their own figures some people put the upb some people put what they're into a loan for i recommend you talk to your insurance company or whoever you get in from and find out their terms to say if i put this amount what it could happen because there is a policy part where if you don't insure enough you can be penalized right just make sure we have a whole video on that too so um take a look at that it's really interesting stuff i know dave you and i both have been stung with that one not fun not fun no no i didn't insure it for enough yeah and it's like yeah it's five thousand dollars off like whoa whoa the damage is like well we're broke giving because you didn't get your deductible you know it's like oh crap so yes yeah it's tough right um but yeah make sure you have that situation okay so with that said our my next list here is pay history seeing the pay history now again tape that is taped out i'm not blaming the seller for bad takedown because sometimes just transmitted wrong yeah yeah what do you look at for pay history well and that's interesting too because oftentimes it's not on the tape sometimes it is and especially if you're looking at performance it better be but if you're looking at non-performing it's not unusual for it not to be there it is it's typically not for pay history i'm looking at i'm looking at i'm trying to put together the story so are they paying regular every month great were they paying regular for every month and then all of a sudden they stopped um that's kind of weird and and why would that be you know did somebody die did they just lose a job or something or what happened there yeah the other thing i look at is uh something you see often is where they won't pay for two or three months and then they lump sum then they miss a couple months and then they lump sum and catch up again so is that the situation and have they maybe gone uh long enough not to pay that they're selling it as a non-performer but if you look at the history you'll go no they they catch up they catch up and typically that's typically like a someone who sells houses who's on a sales position where they'll get commissioned every three months right it all depends on the situation but the commission depends on that stuff yeah um so yes so the pay issue for us same thing i want to see consistency and if it's not consistent we understand that these loans are not perfect right but what do they do how was their behaviors before were they consistent consistently updated to the point where a year ago everything changed and what happened here ago yeah what's the story over here whatever happened and all of a sudden this catches up or they try making payments to catch up and just constantly behind yeah we bought a loan where they had late fees out the wazoo because they paid like five days after yeah because they were on social security and they got the payment of 15.

yeah and they never could catch up right um just suggesting that you typically can do a quick kind of workout with them and they're willing sometimes pay more money to say listen i just don't want to be leaked right you know hey listen i this is in terms i agree with but i'm going to make these kind of turns work for you and for off you may make it a little higher return for us yeah um i've got a situation like that now right in florida where my guy's on social security so his check comes um whatever it is the third wednesday of every month so he's his payment date was set up at first on the first and well obviously that doesn't work he's going to be late every single month so we changed it we're just in the ma in the process of doing that right now changing it to the 25th of the month um and then that completely works for him by the third friday of the month or third wednesday or whatever it is uh his check is in and he's on time every month going forward so that's you know good for him good for me yeah so next one's interesting and i don't hear a lot of people talking about it proper preservation right when you look at proper innovation a few things pop up is the previous seller doing any kind of propagation work at all for review driving by the property make sure again this is for non-performing loans are they missing private preservation pictures are they doing it if they did it and you see the service records issued i want a copy of that preservation reports that's a good idea i never agree about that but that's good i want to see what it looks like we bought along the whole first place insurance duration where it showed damage and 10 grand of damage now i know going in what the damage is and someone's actually got inside or maybe outside and saw it and sees like hey here's the root problem here's the propagation report and typically you do it every two or three months because for insurance purposes you know when the estimated time when it was done if there is none right there's nothing you could do about it you can't ask the seller to do much about it but they do get a copy of them right yeah if they've done any kind of inspection i want to see pictures and things going into that um and property preservation like you say it's not one we talk about a whole lot we had uh nvms on a few weeks ago uh it can be an important part um it can also add up really really quickly so you can get them in there they start with you know cutting the grass and then and and that's fine that has to be done or otherwise you get ticketed uh if they're getting inside the property and just trashing it out that's one thing but then if they want to start doing work on it and it whatever your strategy is on that but um i find that those third-party guys typically i find that they charge more than a local dude that i can find through my realtor yeah and yeah absolutely so if you can use a realtor friend or contact in their local go for it um we've had our problem with product preparation we taught before carpenter roof that was fine and we had flooding inside for two years yeah so those kind of things the next thing on our list is bankruptcy right now bankruptcy can be very interesting because you sometimes can find the borrowers and sometimes you can't most time you can what are you when you're looking at bk in the lone bar with mbk what are you looking for typically when i'm looking at it i'm looking at how quickly can i finish this bk yes i i don't like bks um to me they're just time consuming and because it doesn't mean your end goal right just so everyone knows your end goal is different from someone else's right i i want to turn it around as quickly as i can so when we're talking about i have to file a most emotion for summary judgment first of all i gotta file for emotion relief and then we've gotta have a hearing about it and then we've gotta have another you know uh hearing to confirm that hearing and it's just like endless hearing after hearing and meeting after meeting until we finally say yeah no he's really not paying yeah i know that's the whole point so then we can finally get to the summary judgment and onto a foreclosure after we spent four or five months just deciding that he's not going to pay anymore well yeah we knew that yeah so for me they're a pain in the butt yes but sometimes you find information about the seller right what the reason is what other debt they have on their records right um you also can see what they value their house at um does it match the county information all that good stuff um it also tells us a little about their ameristrease right yeah it tells a lot right you can go to pacer.gov i would say it's free but it's not it's like 10 cents a page yeah and they don't charge you unless you go over 15 for the quarter so it's not a killer deal but you can definitely log in here look at stuff you may get lost um but you can pop around there um there's enough people in space to understand it you can definitely ask but you just want to see what their petition says uh now understand that bk we've had bk stuff on before there's people paying inside a plan outside of plan paying their arrears all those kind of little things but just get comfortable with it to know the fact that you do need to check in to make sure you when you're in that due diligence period what's going on in the bk some people consider their rears found money you may have five years of arrears payments on top of your p is coming in that's a golden ticket you may be able to buy that thing at you know nine percent interest rate and you're getting a reason next five years you're gonna kill a return yeah they can be really good and don't get me wrong i just it's one of those things i don't i i prefer to steer clear of them just because partially because i don't have a full understanding of them and partially like you say it just doesn't meet my angle yeah so i've got one for you and tell me if you've ever run across this in vk so i've got one where it's property in ohio and talking about property value um so i'd never heard of this before but talking with guys over at cetillium really they're the borrowers are trying to do what they call a cram down on value have you dealt with that before um it's been a bunch of years i haven't done it in a while but basically cramming it down and saying the house is not worth what the value of your note is right right which in this case it's really not uh and they're completely using it as a stall and they're trying to just work things around and the stall is working unfortunately but uh but it's i i find it so frustrating because they're just saying well no it's not and i'm not guys it's ridiculous of course it is but so the flip side bk right we're talking about the goodwin actually file understand that when you're going through non-performing stuff you may be in a spot where you need to make sure that they haven't filed five at times where florida's tourists for this where they go to foreclosure sale and they file bk yeah they have 30 days to get the plan together right and then they could file sometimes you can get a relief for this sometimes you can't where they're serial followers you know if they've had filing and it kept going and dismissed and it keeps going on going just be aware that then maybe it held up for years um our friend wayne was going through one in florida three years of trying to get out of bk and eventually eventually the court will say okay enough is enough but during that time when they're just saying well let's see you know next hearing next hearing next year yeah i can drag on for you like you say you can file remember in rem relief however that doesn't always work right um like florida so it's frustrating um so all these kind of things we actually have a list on our website of all the things that we ask the seller for when we make an offer we want to look at the stuff we went through a lot of them today we wanted to go through all this stuff with you guys so you get an idea of what we're looking at now again so many things are not now avoid for certain assets sometimes i skip over right if it's a clean cut thing i don't care about where the borrower is at what the situation is um if there's no additional situation problems on the only report i'm moving forward if i'm buying an asset that the only shows a clear chain i'm not too worried about it right um things like that is really kind of easy if it's a non-performing loan and there's nothing in the servicing record besides this crap i know that i just got to move forward yeah okay some sellers don't get insurance from property sorry guys they don't they just don't bother and there's some good reason why they don't but just know the fact is available um if you have any additional questions guys feel free to jump in or whatever but you know these kind of situations these checklists oddly enough become mental checklists right um i would tell you that this is my full list but it's probably not um because uh a student pops i'll be like oh let's check this oh let's check that um you know sometimes i buy things from servicers and sometimes i don't buy something because they're aware of servicer right um some services are really bad at doing borrow reach outreach which makes it the fact that i could buy this thing and probably get it turned around yep um sellers it depends on two and then the borrowers you know knowledge if they have four or five properties that may change my scenario here may change what i do now one of the questions that was asked a few days ago from us is do you adjust things nathan do you just if a clown comes back to you and there's missing assignments and wonders how do you handle that with the seller it depends of course um which is the all-encompassing answer but it really does um if there's a missing assignment and it's from five five you know steps in the chain ago where it's gonna be a really difficult one to track down then i might come back and at least say that to them and say so here's here's what i'm seeing is we're missing this assignment uh that's gonna be a problem for me um then maybe we we do adjust on pricing or something other times like maybe it's a missing assignment from just like two steps up the chain well i know those are the guys too uh or at least have contact there so it's really not a big deal yep i'm not going to try to cram down on my seller i'm not going to say well well you know there is this problem in that problem you know don't be that guy because they're not going to want to deal with you in the future that's the heartache right um and lean on your your whoever's reading your files either the attorney or so you you know sodium could do it for yourself to know the fact of what the scenario is now most of the time i'd say 90 to 95 time you can fix collateral problems right it's when the company when is gone makes it difficult we had someone on uh kobe school they can solve these kind of problems right you can solve cloud problems more than you think you can't right yeah um we've had questions of what happens when it when uh assignment is blank or on uh you know depending on the state right and making sure that something else wasn't recorded in place that so if it's into blank leave it alone but if something's recorded after that that's when the problems happen so yeah more often than not if i see that there's something that's off in the file more often than not i'll just go ahead with the sale as is i'm not going to go back to the seller and be like well you know and start listing off all the things like you're not kicking tires here you're not you know that's it's not that's not a good relationship yeah and they're not going to want to deal with you in the future so yeah you know suck it up and realize that we're buying hairy loans and that's just how it is so and then just go and then when the sellers got more to sell they'll they'll want to deal with you because you're not going to cause a bunch of problems and whine and crying and there's some buyers out there they'll do all this due diligence before they buy a note yeah so they argument is hey listen the seller knows that they're i'm ready to go ready to make things happen um if you're new i don't advise it right um because you can spend a lot of time money energy so before you buy it don't buy your bpos don't buy your own e's don't you know go and jump on pacer just get an idea ballpark what you'd pay for loan based on the data that's on the tape that's it yeah yeah you can talk yourself out of anything so yes don't freak yourself out they're hairy loans just get used to that that's okay and a lot of the thing we talked about is fixable yes and a lot of these things we talked today if you go back and tell us listen this loan is missing four different things blah blah blah and i can't go up to you know citibank and get this stuff i don't have the contact um or say listen do you have it no we don't have it right you get more values off there's certain things that really could go back and say listen i can't buy this model right we had a loan where the seller thought the house worth 180 grand price came back at like 50.

yeah listen i can buy this loan but i'm not gonna buy it at with the price i gave you yeah well that's way too low okay yeah i've had it where listen i found there's an eight thousand dollar tax lien you know what we'll reduce the price by eight thousand dollars perfect yep great and we'll say to them listen this is based on the data we got our our current alert we have the tax delinquency is zero and if it comes about that then we work on it now again guys if the taxes come back and it's a thousand dollars or 500 bucks don't nickel and dime the seller right um if you don't have 500 bucks in the deal unless it's a really really small deal just understand the fact that don't rank you can go have these with them if you want four thousand five when it gets up to six seven eight thousand that's when the concerns happen right if it's a fifty thousand dollar purchase price and you're worried about 500 bucks you have some numbers that are really kind of screwy but if you're 2500 or so above that on a 50 000 purchase ask for a split hey listen here's where it's at i don't want to kill you but that's when you can start working negotiations now again you can ask for a full payoff but you don't always have to right right well yeah a thousand dollar tax bill is not a deal breaker and that's really probably not a reason to go back on the seller and try to get a reduced price yeah because you can burn your bridge right yeah cool well man i i'm looking forward to moving forward i know we have a few more um things planned for the next few weeks yeah some really cool stuff um one we are looking forward to that i think a lot of you guys uh definitely should tune in for um but i'm not gonna burst a bubble yet what it's about uh it'll be in august that one's probably gonna be one of our bigger ones to be a lot of questions yeah so be ready for that one um we have a few more ideas we're coming up if you guys do want to hear anything else different or separate or ideas you want us to talk about post it email us hit us up whatever you want to do um but let's go from there guests that you want to have out here yeah whatever let us know if there's a special thing you want to talk about and you're the guest you know about let's bring them on let's talk to them this is a great opportunity to just get out there and network right we find out things by networking yeah um education's a big thing but networking is probably the biggest thing for me for what i learned the best versus the presenter so cool thank you very very much everyone i appreciate tuning in nathan always a pleasure man hopefully you have a great weekend i know it's supposed to be seeing what decent weekend except for sunday for us but rainy on sunday but otherwise it looks great yeah so sounds good we will uh we will talk soon everyone have a good time and we'll uh have fun you bet thanks you [Music] hey everybody dave fitz here from jkp holdings alongside me as always nathan turner how you doing what's up man um i'm glad to see you connecting today it's been a crazy week i would say um things have just been busy yeah stuff with everything going on with company personal stuff and some other stuff going on it's been crazy week um you know for me this summer time flies by and that's one thing i kind of you know hate to say right we hate seeing the summertime just gone yeah yeah my wife and i are looking at the calendar going forward and so this week is this because this week is this i mean there's really four or five weeks left and that's it and so we're looking at this and things are getting scheduled in and it's you know kind of a nice change from last year but at the same time it's getting back to two years ago when it was crazy busy and yeah i think for me it's just you know we don't have much summer like you guys right we just don't get into it as quickly so it's like really a few months and weekends poke up extremely quick yeah so it's just making sure we have everything put together so um you know so just everyone know i want to make sure everyone knows that this we put on youtube and facebook and all that stuff but just i think you'll take a look at you know nathan has a website as well so i know i have some emails this week nathan i don't think we've ever shared your website out publicly so what what is your website so that interesting question because currently it's canadianguy.com in the next week or two uh the new website will be launching and that's earnestinvesting.com cool so ernest is the the home company canadian oil guy was always just uh like doing business as name but canadian no guy is is has been great and now people still want to call me that that's great but uh but the company has always been earnest ink so earnest investing is going forward uh our fund is ready uh i just have to set up the bank account and then we're starting to raise capital so we're excited to get that going yeah so you know guys i want to make sure you guys go into his website as well content's there right he has information year's experience and you know definitely take a look at youtube um hit that subscribe button i was told by my assistant lauren make sure you describe the bell so you get all these good updates but tune in to what we share but also what nathan shares well so look them up and all that stuff we wanted to dive in today and what we're going to talk about is a topic that um i'm sure we've shared before about but it's really drilling in on what happens when you accept the offer and we talked about the paperwork whatever but we didn't really dive into the due diligence what do you do for we know the pre-due diligence the bpos or reviews assets but now you've got the bid offer accepted now we got the scary part right yeah yeah 100 assets or one now you really need to hone in and you only have a matter of days right where pre-due diligence could be a lot less yeah and it's easy to kind of scratch the surface on all this stuff but but it's pretty detailed and and it's important to get into it and make sure you know what you're looking at what it means uh what stuff doesn't matter that you're looking at and and how you can move forward from there yeah with that said you know i would say for me that is probably the most scariest part right because now the next step is funding yeah right so you know when you get into the pre stuff you can always find a way to just ask on the ass and not make an offer now the offer has been accepted now what right and and again this it's not like real estate where you can just throw out a whole bunch of offers and just kind of yeah hope and you know the shotgun approach and you'll burn bridges very quickly in this business where you make an offer you get a bit accepted it's expected that you will close on that yeah it's it's not a typical thing and it's not a normal thing to back out there has to be a good reason um and if there's a good reason you can for sure but uh but you're going into this with good intent and you know the ability and promise to perform and and we're not saying you can't get out of a deal right but you lead literally have to have a legitimate reason right we've got to have deals where the collateral paper was questionable and we said listen can you fix it the answer is no or the house disappeared the values change all those kind of little things can make a deal different right yeah so uh feel free we're on facebook live right now you can definitely ask questions there whatever you need to do um but we're just gonna chat away here if no one has questions kind of just roll through things now what you're gonna find out is that sometimes me nathan may differ on what we do here and that's great um just know the fact that's available right um now nathan you get an email from the seller bid's accepted yeah what's your first step usually what do you first do first thing i do at that point is i order right away so here's what i used to do here's what i do now what i used to do is i would order bpo and e at the same time and i'd get both of those done right away uh and what i found was it was happening more often than not or often enough that it was becoming a problem is i would get that bpo back and it was drastically different like i i had value i you know on on paper what i could see online and everything i'd come up with a value of 75 and i'd get this bpo back at 50 and i go oh well that's a totally different story um and especially if it's an underwater loan you know if there's no equity in there then that matters a great deal so i've actually i've changed it up a little bit where as much as i can i'll i'll get a confirmation on value before i order the only true and i i get the impression you tell me what you find but i think that back five six seven years ago it was um been accepted you're closing within like three to five maybe seven days and now i i feel like that's stretched out a little bit not a lot but enough that i can stagger those two reports at the very least yeah and i i definitely agree with you i think that you know things have changed over the years i think is we need to adapt to what you know is available now so yeah um and in newer people down in the space and so they're kind of understanding that um and bigger companies are used to trades being a lot bigger so three four days to do 100 assets is not enough yeah exactly so they definitely adjust that um i think for me you know they expect you to be able to review that collateral get your bpo get your own e within 72 hours and be done um i would say that's not always possible um because a lot of attorneys or whoever's review your collateral if it's outside source they want to see the l a before they even look at that actually yeah yeah the cloud file yeah so so that's important i what i often do is for me for bpo is i email out to all my agents all my investor friends if they're local to a property it's automatically done and i get a feel before i bid on it what i know about it it's my value's pretty confident what i do when the bid's accepted is then i just have them go out there and drive by the property make sure the property's still there make sure the value is pretty still on um and do things like that so i think for me that worked out well yeah yeah and it's interesting because sometimes and it's it's interesting how there's a standard but but there's quite a bit of variation in that standard so we'll get a tape and it'll usually have the same kind of information um but it depends on who it's coming from and and what the background is sometimes they'll have like a current status so it'll tell you if they've started foreclosure other times you don't get that information at all and so that's verifying all that information is is a big deal true when do you typically order that o e so now i typically order that after i get uh some kind of confirmation value whether that's a bpo or i've already got an agent in that town and they can drive by that's usually faster if i if it's in a town i'm already in and i've got a realtor they can usually get that information back to me like within a day maybe two so then i'll order the only after that yeah for me i'm pretty much the same with you on that right where we would do something where we we get the value confirmed we talked to the agent or the investor and say listen our bid's been accepted we're moving forward i need a really good solid value from you you drive by the property i have no problem paying for that time and effort i want you to dive into this property right um let me know what you know about it if you happen to see a neighbor and wave to them and just ask a question that's great you really just know about what that property is it evolved now if you're doing uh brian's question howard we'll get to your question in a few minutes brian you asked the question you know what is wonder onenote versus multiple no purchase package when you're buying a five or ten you can still do the same process here right when you're buying 50 plus you've got to go bigger right so we've done that where we just order the bpos you kind of know the fact you're gonna get some home runs and some bad ones so you're oh you're you're ordering your ovens for your your title ownies you're ordering your bpos and typically as soon as you can get a collateral file review either by your attorney collateral management company or yourself yeah yeah and it it's it's kind of a how much time do you have to do that if you've if you've been given 30 days to close go ahead and look at every one of those yeah given you know seven to ten days you probably just simply won't have time yeah uh to go and and you know man and look at every single one of them yeah interestingly enough you know when you buy the one-off deals you're really gonna spend the time to know about that but understand you're not gonna know it inside out right you don't know all the problems so there's nothing to prevent you from being in a bad spot so and that's that's the risk of this business and you know there's always a risk in any investment you ever do and that's it for this it's when we're talking specifically about first lien mortgages is what kind of condition is the property that's that's really the number one risk and we're trying to mitigate that as much as possible and get whatever information we can but there's no way to know everything about that property and absolutely all the potential pitfalls yeah and when we look at these bpos or values make sure the property that they're copying is local right make sure that they're not two miles four miles away when you're inside of you know a city and if it's in a country area where it is kind of diverse just check out what you're looking at take a look at zillow or like our website and say listen the comms make sense read over it because that person doesn't care about as much you do right um you know one of the things that when we do go get the drive by is i want hey fellow no investor are you looking to learn the basics of note investing so you can get started however you don't want to spend a few hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours online on some training program have you thought about attending a notes conference however you don't want to spend the money or the time away from your family well we have a tremendous beginners video series of 20 different topics with each video being less than 15 minutes this means each video is less fluff and direct to the content visit www.jkpholdings.com beginner dash series to learn more again www.jkpholdings.com slash beginner dash series pictures i want to see what the house looks like we've thought before i don't want your opinion i just want the facts of what it is yeah you know don't don't tell me you think the roof is three months old show me what you are seeing that concerns you and let me know what that looks like right yeah when i'm looking at that bpo one of the most valuable things to me is you know you've got all the stats and the side-by-side comparisons but really one of the most uh valuable pieces is where you've got realtor comments and um there can be some really pertinent information on there that just doesn't fit in the chart yeah when you're putting down just raw numbers they'll say you know it's a whatever it's a really good neighborhood really bad neighborhood it's a good school district whatever that'll show up in the comments and that can be very valuable if they fill it out properly if they're just putting like a you know a copy and paste disclaimer in there then that's not so useful but that's where i want to see you know what's what's really going on what's the real information of what's happening in that area yeah and i want to like i said i want to see what the property is surrounded by right a lot of times we may be the best house neighborhood we may be the worst both have a piece right you're the worst house neighbor that would be a good thing we know we have some update if we're the best house neighborhood we have some problems i want to know what the worst looks like i want to know the other are competing against yeah um one of the facets we'd like to know is is it near a school right is it near church the main road nearby that diversifies that city town area and said this is the bad side of good side that information is valuable it lets us know some more stuff yeah it's really interesting you know if you think back i know i've lived in a couple of different cities in my life and and if if it's you know on the east side of this road or this river or this railroad track or or something there's usually some kind of dividing line you know north east southwest um there's something there usually there's some kind of dividing line uh that we'll say on this side is really good on this side not so much yeah and you know above or below this or on either side and it's as much as you can it's good to know that kind of information it's so true right we don't realize what we what because we know our own home ground we don't realize if we look at a map and think oh okay it is what it is it begs the question so the next thing we we typically look at is this o e thing right for those who don't know what it is it's when you buy a house and you get a mortgage they do a title search the title company confirms that that property has no prior liens and they give you an insurance policy just basically dumping it down that tells you that property is clean of any kind of leads yeah you're buying it clean yeah well at that point we don't need to know what happened before that purchase we just need to know when that purchase happens till now what's happening so that's often a lot cheaper than buying a full title yeah 200 bucks or so we look at the fact that what happened from that point to now what the tax duration is what other liens have come on all those kind of facets this is also typically faster like a full title you're talking about like sometimes a couple of weeks where in this you're talking maybe a couple of days yes so interesting enough we also get into a spot where these ons tell us a lot right it will often have collateral files for us they also have um foreclosure sometimes stuff in there it tells us taxes it tells us the the order of the liens have been recorded it tells us you know if if something's missing and not been recorded now maybe in the file they may not be recorded so um howard asked the question and what's a procedure for looking at the title and what should i know about the title right we want to know where the liens are what positions they went down yeah where taxes are are they paid not paid what other liens may be still on the property mechanics liens tax liens county liens water leans sometimes it's not on there oftentimes um one of the one of the real tricks of a key piece of information that's often not on a title report like this is delinquent taxes that have been sold that's usually not on there it'll show up because when they're doing it they're looking just from the county records and they'll say uh on the county records it'll just say paid what it doesn't say is purchased by somebody else and then they're holding it as a lien uh great point there's no way around that yeah but it's a little bit more involved so what he's basically saying is if that taxes are current they're not current because the buyer the borrowers paid them they could be current because someone bought the tax lien so if you look at it and you say okay so the borrower hasn't paid for the last two three years but the taxes are current and that's the red flag yeah why would they pay their taxes and not their mortgage there's there's some kind of disconnect there sometimes it's just as simple as that they paid their taxes but not their mortgage but usually uh that's an indication of something else and typically that's that the taxes were sold to a third party it also could be a situation where the lender has paid those taxes it was so current and that's going on top of your advanced you know events um proceeds to corporate advances so those are added on but we want to see where those things are and in the in really cool but in the lean part is the mapping right we look at it all time we want to make sure the chain that's recorded is in order yeah from company 8 it goes to company b the next line says company b to company e and you're like whoa whoa whoa how did c go to like b go to d it didn't it skipped so we need to find out a doesn't have it in the file and b we need to record it and get in the right position and you know there's all kinds of things that we can see and all kinds of little uh things that are wrong in there like 99 of those are fixable it's it's not that it's like a total disaster and that's gonna wreck the entire thing um that just that's the hair on the loan that you're gonna have to manage and not that it's necessarily a bad thing it's it's probably extra work but it's doable and you can take care of that and it's not yeah insurmountable no right we just need to know that right in the person reviewing your file wants to see that because they're going to say hey listen it's an exception the fact that this has been here and not recorded or this is not in the file and it's not recorded right right and depending on the state you could figure out things of you know uh when something is missing in the file how do you go about it the attorney will walk you through that some states allow you to have missing documents and have a copy of it bring all stuff i won't get too detailed in there for you guys but you can work it out yeah so these hopefully how are we asking answer your question um the next question we actually came in i'll put into our chat here for us let's actually go back to the liens for a second yeah the liens can be an interesting thing and and this is just going to take some experience and uh you know time to get it figured out because we're in first position um some liens matter to us and the other ones don't yes good point so the one of the craziest ones that i ever saw was uh the the lien holder was a united states government and i went what is that it turned out it was like uh like a seizure something or other some like drug bust kind of so i i didn't buy that one because that to me was a deal breaker [Laughter] so that that takes precedent over the first lead mortgage um but a lot of them don't and so you don't need to you can see you know they might have a bit of a laundry list of liens on there they don't necessarily all matter to you yeah and it does iristly know the fact that they can redeem i think it's 210 days correct me wrong 20 days a redeemed now granted the irs probably has like only a few million dollars for the entire country to redeem anything yeah right and if they do they're going to go after the ones who actually have more equity or whatever situation so more than likely not to worry about that's actually just an extension on to your redemption period right it's not clean title clinical right but when we say this kind of things you know you can look at these liens and know the fact that we have a situation where an hoa started a foreclosure growth in ohio and we're okay with it great we knew the fact we were in second position or we're in first position they can't jump us and i'm sure before they actually did because the person i bought it from never actually answered the claim so we're actually out of the case so when you get this kind of stuff and you see that the foreclosure started with the document go and see look at the document i didn't i had presumed look at the document and say what happened in the foreclosure and i said they're going to sit and wait they probably started it and they're just sitting back and waiting for someone to do something else well they started foreclosure within a few months of me modding it and it just was craziness so read all the documents and see you can see a lot in that in that o and e we call title it's not really a title query it's a part of a title but it's not and it really is just kind of you you'll get comfortable with it you'll read it and you'll see you know a dozen of them and you start to get an idea of an idea of what's what's on there and what matters and what kind of information you can get on there and most of them are the same format yeah mostly same format you can know where to go with things right documents the bottom line if you order from pro title and alex and over there so those kind of things happen um so doug asked the question what is the procedure you do to check to make sure the tax lien has been sold or how do you find out what anti-purchase tax plan all right so for the tax lien um there's a couple things you can do one of the easiest things you do is just call the county and say hey i'm just checking in on these taxes can you just let me know if there were any that were sold uh it'll take you two minutes and you'll be able to get that information uh if you don't feel like getting on the phone you can order a report i think that they still do this uh through um who was it dang black knight like that yep uh they did uh they would do a report i haven't actually ordered one for quite some time uh i called accounting because it's yep two minutes yeah um but they do offer that report and it's cheap i back when i was ordering them before it was like 12 or 14 or something like that like they're really not expensive and it was a really good report uh but it just i can call so i'll call yeah absolutely i agree with you totally you know for me it's the time i need right i make a quick phone call the county records remember all this stuff is public knowledge it's not that it's hidden behind closed doors it's all public information for everyone so make sure you kind of check that stuff out um so let's go to our next step what are you typically looking for now one of my next items is typically annual taxes right um knowing the fact that the annual taxes are the dollar amount what they are because i need to know it from my calculation yeah i'm going to foreclose administration and say take me six months i need to estimate the extra tax that were due plus what moves forward yeah i can't forget the fact that taxes are still accumulating yeah yeah no that's a great point and that's definitely one that i look at as well uh you can get up into ohio or someplace where it's like four thousand dollars a year on this little you know thousand square foot bungalow versus one for example i've got down in mississippi and it's 600 a year so that makes a tremendous difference to my numbers uh so i want to just make sure i know what that is so like for this one in mississippi um we had to listen for sale we actually just went into contract for somebody we're selling doing a seller finance deal and we were looking at you know as we're holding it we get a tax bill and well do we need to pay that right now or can we wait until we're selling it it's seller finance and now we're gonna have to pay it anyway or if we sold it uh through the realtor just the cash deal that would have come out of escrow so rather than having to come out of my pocket it would have just come out of escrow and it's 600 bucks so i don't care yeah in this case i'm gonna have to pay it but i was willing to put it off because it's 600 bucks and then the penalty on that's gonna be an extra 20 bucks so i was willing to let that go yeah just so i didn't have to come out of pocket for that it's funny because you know uh same story like i was remember being in a car couple years ago we had a property in alabama for closing on it was auction day and i had to come up with the dollars to pay out yeah i'm like telling my wife like oh my god i forgot i got to make the payment for the question and where you saw our tax bill right yeah in new jersey and the tax bill was like 423 dollars yeah her first question was is that for a quarter right like we're you know thousand dollars tax bill a year and that's for the whole year so yes can taxes make or break you depends what state you're in yeah if it's most likely a state with lower taxes you're not gonna be killed it but you need to know it right you need to know projecting out you're buying in ohio and you have 18 months you're maybe your backpacks work for five grand because it's always already one year behind now you're adding another year and a half on you have to add that into it yeah because that adds up really quick yeah and you know with that said we need to know what were tax if the taxes sold some states there's interest on that so we need to know should we pay it immediately to stop the interest from growing yeah so alabama is notorious for this where uh you sell it as a like it'll sell as a lien and then the lien holder they can go in and start making improvements to the property they can they can do all this stuff and then charge it back to you so i've had that a couple of times and that's not very fun so if i hear about one that's getting close alabama is one where i make sure i pay it just because that will add up extremely quickly oh my god yeah it's it's tough right um and now understand that like alabama has a a redemption period of 180 days right but you can typically sell an asset down there because they already know the process they're used to it the buyers know about stuff just do that the other thing for alabama that's just a pain is anytime the taxes sell as a lien it's a process like you've got to go uh you've got to get with the county first of all and they send you out a document uh i don't even know the amount yet so they'll send me out a document i have to sign it saying i'm redeeming the taxes then it goes to the person that bought the taxes that person then just signs and says yes i'm i'm willing to you know i'm good to do that they then send that back to the county along with any of the charges that they've tacked on there and then i finally get my number so i for like a month month and a half i don't even know how much i'm paying on this if you know so it's it's and it's just a process and it just takes way too long but anyway and we we put all this into our beginner series this this whole thing into a slideshow so if you ever want to record it go back to it it's our beginners video series but you know one of the questions that came up was about you know i'm going to turn around and get to your question in a second but i'm going to piggyback on the question because i find it most people know in ohio there's certain parts of ohio that have a bond that technically the whole state is a ten thousand bond they typically when you start foreclosure you have to put up some counties it some don't and that bond is oh we're going to use it for lawn mowing this is and it it's there is no you choose what pricing it is they just bill it and you put the 10 grand up and they weather it down it's to prevent houses from looking like crap and keeping houses up so far cuyahoga county is one of the worst for that oh my god yeah yep so cleveland ohio again it's not necessarily a deal breaker but just know what you're getting into yeah it's a pain just know the fact that that's there um and there's some states where if it's vacant you have to post that in ohio is one of them you have to post that vacant and there's a charge if you don't um it's just stuff like that that's nico and diamond which is great just being aware of it and knowing it and calculating it is the biggest gamut yeah so turn ask the question is debt license required in ohio so i'm going to tell you it depends um so we actually just sent out our angle um questionnaire to a bunch of our attorney friends and ask them for updated court fees um debt license questions um and whatnot so seconds are more regulated weirdly enough than first for my understanding and i didn't look at the stats yet um we sent it out yesterday but yes in ohio um from my understanding my recollection his seconds are actually get license requirements see if these are going away basically they're kind of pushing them out but first right now from my understanding nathan and correct me wrong you don't require it yet that's my understanding as well okay there was a thing a couple of years ago uh where they had talked about it and it was it was some kind of crazy requirements they said like you had to have an a physical office in ohio and this and that yeah i think that's all been settled where as long as i'm not even going to try to get it right because i don't remember the details but bottom line is it hasn't stopped me from buying in ohio yeah um and it's you know regulators making rules without full understanding of how it actually works yeah and i think that's been kind of more or less regulated and ohio is a state that we all bought in a lot right because ohio is a really big state we all bought columbus ohio for years um in these states have different things one of the things you also have to look into and we're actually going to send us out a few weeks for our returning friends is redemption i mean um um statute limitations you need to know yourself keep limitations depending on the state right if a payment has been made in four years are you okay certain states are three some are five summer states depending on when the foreclosure started there's all kind of parameters right and we're just updating our records we have a understanding but that's something you also have to know when you go into the opposed to diligence making sure that what you see on the tape matches what the collateral file says so if the last payment date was you know stated on the tape to be last year and you look in the servicing records and it's not boom now you have concerns yeah yeah and it's it most often it goes by last paid date uh last date paid so you've got that you know that clock starts there um and then you get into other places where okay the statute of limitations says that uh you just can't collect anything that was due before this date so i i get you you've just got to kind of check it out and check with the local attorneys and they can help guide you in that check with a local attorney who's a foreclosure savvy yeah and ohio was a bunch of them um me and nathan is one that we actually i don't hear many people talking about um but you know there are plenty right franco's one of them um we use someone local also in ohio and columbus area um thomas novak and stuff like that um and whatnot but yeah check with the attorneys out there right they'll have more knowledge and understanding debt buyers license as well as all the other rules and regulations one that we forgot to mention is when you call that county to find out about taxes make sure the property's not on demolition list right right if you see the property in poor condition yeah i would ask that question right you know and they ask about county utility as well why you're in a phone call is it because county utilities is not always on that that o e report now i just had an interesting one just this last week uh it's in akron ohio and we're just we're in the process of the foreclosure uh deceased borrowers i think anyway they're not there and uh i had a situation where this city um code violation lady she called me and she said you know we're getting reports there's people coming in and out of the house and all this so i had somebody go out there and and secure it boarded up and everything else um and she was the coolest code violation lady actually i've had a couple of really cool ones but but she's really cool and very very helpful which is fantastic but she's saying you know so we issued this uh citation and all this and and you know gave the laundry list of things that need to get done on the property she's like the reality is that none of them are a big deal they're all a whole bunch of me you know minor repairs that need to get done and she says like i'd even be willing to talk to uh whoever's looking at purchasing this after you're done i'm like oh wow fantastic thanks so you know on record it shows all this you know order from the city this and that so it looks bad but she's saying no it's really not um she actually issued it really for my behalf so that they could go in there for the people and say like no there's all this stuff wrong see you've got to leave and using this ammunition to get them out that's awesome but she's she's really cool and she's just like no no it's really not a big deal and i'll talk to your buyer and tell them really it's not a big deal it's like wow you know fixing the gutter in this spot and you know little things that are not a big deal so anyway you get those sometimes yeah so before we get to other laundry lists you know what we'll do sometimes not always is look for the borrower yeah because i'll see if i can find them i'll i'll do a quick search nothing crazy right um i'll look at linkedin i'll look at facebook i'll google the name i'll google the address i google address one time and say house fire oh crap right um but look at the borrower great i always show the story that i was on facebook looking up one bar or and their son was rapping to the house and walking through it now it was like two weeks prior and i'm like i got interior photos yeah i know the interior conditions house so you just want to find out what's going on hey i'm at the hospital again um i didn't get a job or hey i finally got a job yeah those little things if you're doing one-off fields or five whatever you can do that you can spend the time you can hire vieta just search them out find out the borrower's story yeah yeah and if if that means that you can avoid doing a full foreclosure and they'll just do like a cash for keys or a mod or something oh my goodness you save so much time and and money and energy and everything so it's it's definitely worth it i don't look at all of them i don't look for all of them but yeah you know even when it makes sense uh when something sounds weird that's when i kind of dive into look at a borrower right yeah we have a solution where the house is very conditioned it looked like they locked up we did trash out or that we got it was just in a bad spot we went around the property and we looked them up they were actually church goers who moved to go i guess he was a preacher and he was going to california to preach and just kind of vanished and i found him on facebook and i bought the loan i got beaten lou and it was dawn i mean it was very easy yeah it was just kind of weird things like that so yeah um what one thing we also want to get into is you know modification forbearances and reading these files knowing what it is know the time period knowing the fact that what's been pushed off and make sure it matches the tape information once again right yeah if the ubb doesn't match up or the payment amount doesn't match up the maturity of the match up make sure those things line up because the terms may have changed yeah yeah and that is is so useful and helpful to get through um if you can get the servicer's notes yes so here's i've had this a couple of times now where i'm looking through the services notes and i'm looking at the communication between the the mortgage owner and the servicer and oftentimes um whoever selling the note is not the same one who's working the note yes so they'll have all kinds of stuff like where it's like this close to getting worked out one way or another uh and and the seller's saying we'll sell it too for this price i'm like are you kidding me absolutely yeah that close to a resolution yeah uh so i'm able to get a a better deal that way and the flip side the borrower is arguing screaming heady you know whatever happened or hey listen my father died i'm looking to make things work out all those kind of little things just give you insight we had somebody who was seasoned probably about five years ago or so and that question came up through someone else and says you can't get service notes and i says well there are a few services that kind of hold off on that i know a few of them but most of them yes you could definitely ask for servicing notes in history ask for them right if they don't question it there's there's one service out there that i know it doesn't but you can absolutely pull down and if they don't give it to you i personally don't know if i trust buying the asset yeah the why not you know you gotta ask that question what's what are you trying to hide then because that's kind of weird yeah i've had that too where i saw one it was kind of a funny one where it was a lone down in texas and the back and forth was crazy where this lady was just bringing up all kinds of ridiculous arguments and you know this and this and it was it from what i could read it just looked like it was a never-ending saga and i'm like i'm not sure i want to walk into that not for this price anyway and so i brought that up and they wouldn't budge on the price so i'm like okay well no you know that's not worth my aggravation uh so the next thing we want to get into is you know you know the title policy i'm going to hold off on my list here because we were taught by before you know the fact that if there is a problem with title once you buy it and a lien does appear you could file a title policy claim and you could get paid off the entire balance alone because the third mistake so just know the fact that's available we've also heard modifications of prevalences keep in mind if you see in the service notes that a mod is pending this happened to us make sure you reach out and talk to the seller and make sure you talk to ask them to make sure they talk to a servicer that they freeze it before you buy it or let me know the terms of your negotiation or what possibly could happen because if that goes through everything else changes yeah yeah i've had that where they're they're working on a mod great what are the terms yes i want to make sure those terms work for me at the price that i'm buying the note at yeah and we've had situations where you know you can always take a lump sum of money and put at the end alone with no interest right where this is a balloon at the end and it's not accumulating interest fall and that may change everything right and if they change the terms years you know amounts p and i and it's different from that initial tape data that's when the problem begins right yeah so first place insurance now i've talked about this i think i'm blowing my face here if there's fourth place insurance in place you need to know that for for expenses to know that you're going to be paying this out you should be getting it back you should be but it could be expense you need to understand that you may take if you're going through a proposal and there's two different policies no two remember we talk about the fact that there is a one policy type that you can file on if you own it and it was the old policy and a certain one where it ends when it gets sold right so depending which policy you have um you need to make sure that you that you if there is a policy on it that it's one that can transfer over right right but at the very least get insurance yeah if you're not sure insure it yeah you never know what's going to go on and the cost of the insurance is not prohibitive it's it's not super duper expensive and before anyone asks what do you insure properties for everyone has their own figures some people put the upb some people put what they're into a loan for i recommend you talk to your insurance company or whoever you get in from and find out their terms to say if i put this amount what it could happen because there is a policy part where if you don't insure enough you can be penalized right just make sure we have a whole video on that too so um take a look at that it's really interesting stuff i know dave you and i both have been stung with that one not fun not fun no no i didn't insure it for enough yeah and it's like yeah it's five thousand dollars off like whoa whoa the damage is like well we're broke giving because you didn't get your deductible you know it's like oh crap so yes yeah it's tough right um but yeah make sure you have that situation okay so with that said our my next list here is pay history seeing the pay history now again tape that is taped out i'm not blaming the seller for bad takedown because sometimes just transmitted wrong yeah yeah what do you look at for pay history well and that's interesting too because oftentimes it's not on the tape sometimes it is and especially if you're looking at performance it better be but if you're looking at non-performing it's not unusual for it not to be there it is it's typically not for pay history i'm looking at i'm looking at i'm trying to put together the story so are they paying regular every month great were they paying regular for every month and then all of a sudden they stopped um that's kind of weird and and why would that be you know did somebody die did they just lose a job or something or what happened there yeah the other thing i look at is uh something you see often is where they won't pay for two or three months and then they lump sum then they miss a couple months and then they lump sum and catch up again so is that the situation and have they maybe gone uh long enough not to pay that they're selling it as a non-performer but if you look at the history you'll go no they they catch up they catch up and typically that's typically like a someone who sells houses who's on a sales position where they'll get commissioned every three months right it all depends on the situation but the commission depends on that stuff yeah um so yes so the pay issue for us same thing i want to see consistency and if it's not consistent we understand that these loans are not perfect right but what do they do how was their behaviors before were they consistent consistently updated to the point where a year ago everything changed and what happened here ago yeah what's the story over here whatever happened and all of a sudden this catches up or they try making payments to catch up and just constantly behind yeah we bought a loan where they had late fees out the wazoo because they paid like five days after yeah because they were on social security and they got the payment of 15.

yeah and they never could catch up right um just suggesting that you typically can do a quick kind of workout with them and they're willing sometimes pay more money to say listen i just don't want to be leaked right you know hey listen i this is in terms i agree with but i'm going to make these kind of turns work for you and for off you may make it a little higher return for us yeah um i've got a situation like that now right in florida where my guy's on social security so his check comes um whatever it is the third wednesday of every month so he's his payment date was set up at first on the first and well obviously that doesn't work he's going to be late every single month so we changed it we're just in the ma in the process of doing that right now changing it to the 25th of the month um and then that completely works for him by the third friday of the month or third wednesday or whatever it is uh his check is in and he's on time every month going forward so that's you know good for him good for me yeah so next one's interesting and i don't hear a lot of people talking about it proper preservation right when you look at proper innovation a few things pop up is the previous seller doing any kind of propagation work at all for review driving by the property make sure again this is for non-performing loans are they missing private preservation pictures are they doing it if they did it and you see the service records issued i want a copy of that preservation reports that's a good idea i never agree about that but that's good i want to see what it looks like we bought along the whole first place insurance duration where it showed damage and 10 grand of damage now i know going in what the damage is and someone's actually got inside or maybe outside and saw it and sees like hey here's the root problem here's the propagation report and typically you do it every two or three months because for insurance purposes you know when the estimated time when it was done if there is none right there's nothing you could do about it you can't ask the seller to do much about it but they do get a copy of them right yeah if they've done any kind of inspection i want to see pictures and things going into that um and property preservation like you say it's not one we talk about a whole lot we had uh nvms on a few weeks ago uh it can be an important part um it can also add up really really quickly so you can get them in there they start with you know cutting the grass and then and and that's fine that has to be done or otherwise you get ticketed uh if they're getting inside the property and just trashing it out that's one thing but then if they want to start doing work on it and it whatever your strategy is on that but um i find that those third-party guys typically i find that they charge more than a local dude that i can find through my realtor yeah and yeah absolutely so if you can use a realtor friend or contact in their local go for it um we've had our problem with product preparation we taught before carpenter roof that was fine and we had flooding inside for two years yeah so those kind of things the next thing on our list is bankruptcy right now bankruptcy can be very interesting because you sometimes can find the borrowers and sometimes you can't most time you can what are you when you're looking at bk in the lone bar with mbk what are you looking for typically when i'm looking at it i'm looking at how quickly can i finish this bk yes i i don't like bks um to me they're just time consuming and because it doesn't mean your end goal right just so everyone knows your end goal is different from someone else's right i i want to turn it around as quickly as i can so when we're talking about i have to file a most emotion for summary judgment first of all i gotta file for emotion relief and then we've gotta have a hearing about it and then we've gotta have another you know uh hearing to confirm that hearing and it's just like endless hearing after hearing and meeting after meeting until we finally say yeah no he's really not paying yeah i know that's the whole point so then we can finally get to the summary judgment and onto a foreclosure after we spent four or five months just deciding that he's not going to pay anymore well yeah we knew that yeah so for me they're a pain in the butt yes but sometimes you find information about the seller right what the reason is what other debt they have on their records right um you also can see what they value their house at um does it match the county information all that good stuff um it also tells us a little about their ameristrease right yeah it tells a lot right you can go to pacer.gov i would say it's free but it's not it's like 10 cents a page yeah and they don't charge you unless you go over 15 for the quarter so it's not a killer deal but you can definitely log in here look at stuff you may get lost um but you can pop around there um there's enough people in space to understand it you can definitely ask but you just want to see what their petition says uh now understand that bk we've had bk stuff on before there's people paying inside a plan outside of plan paying their arrears all those kind of little things but just get comfortable with it to know the fact that you do need to check in to make sure you when you're in that due diligence period what's going on in the bk some people consider their rears found money you may have five years of arrears payments on top of your p is coming in that's a golden ticket you may be able to buy that thing at you know nine percent interest rate and you're getting a reason next five years you're gonna kill a return yeah they can be really good and don't get me wrong i just it's one of those things i don't i i prefer to steer clear of them just because partially because i don't have a full understanding of them and partially like you say it just doesn't meet my angle yeah so i've got one for you and tell me if you've ever run across this in vk so i've got one where it's property in ohio and talking about property value um so i'd never heard of this before but talking with guys over at cetillium really they're the borrowers are trying to do what they call a cram down on value have you dealt with that before um it's been a bunch of years i haven't done it in a while but basically cramming it down and saying the house is not worth what the value of your note is right right which in this case it's really not uh and they're completely using it as a stall and they're trying to just work things around and the stall is working unfortunately but uh but it's i i find it so frustrating because they're just saying well no it's not and i'm not guys it's ridiculous of course it is but so the flip side bk right we're talking about the goodwin actually file understand that when you're going through non-performing stuff you may be in a spot where you need to make sure that they haven't filed five at times where florida's tourists for this where they go to foreclosure sale and they file bk yeah they have 30 days to get the plan together right and then they could file sometimes you can get a relief for this sometimes you can't where they're serial followers you know if they've had filing and it kept going and dismissed and it keeps going on going just be aware that then maybe it held up for years um our friend wayne was going through one in florida three years of trying to get out of bk and eventually eventually the court will say okay enough is enough but during that time when they're just saying well let's see you know next hearing next hearing next year yeah i can drag on for you like you say you can file remember in rem relief however that doesn't always work right um like florida so it's frustrating um so all these kind of things we actually have a list on our website of all the things that we ask the seller for when we make an offer we want to look at the stuff we went through a lot of them today we wanted to go through all this stuff with you guys so you get an idea of what we're looking at now again so many things are not now avoid for certain assets sometimes i skip over right if it's a clean cut thing i don't care about where the borrower is at what the situation is um if there's no additional situation problems on the only report i'm moving forward if i'm buying an asset that the only shows a clear chain i'm not too worried about it right um things like that is really kind of easy if it's a non-performing loan and there's nothing in the servicing record besides this crap i know that i just got to move forward yeah okay some sellers don't get insurance from property sorry guys they don't they just don't bother and there's some good reason why they don't but just know the fact is available um if you have any additional questions guys feel free to jump in or whatever but you know these kind of situations these checklists oddly enough become mental checklists right um i would tell you that this is my full list but it's probably not um because uh a student pops i'll be like oh let's check this oh let's check that um you know sometimes i buy things from servicers and sometimes i don't buy something because they're aware of servicer right um some services are really bad at doing borrow reach outreach which makes it the fact that i could buy this thing and probably get it turned around yep um sellers it depends on two and then the borrowers you know knowledge if they have four or five properties that may change my scenario here may change what i do now one of the questions that was asked a few days ago from us is do you adjust things nathan do you just if a clown comes back to you and there's missing assignments and wonders how do you handle that with the seller it depends of course um which is the all-encompassing answer but it really does um if there's a missing assignment and it's from five five you know steps in the chain ago where it's gonna be a really difficult one to track down then i might come back and at least say that to them and say so here's here's what i'm seeing is we're missing this assignment uh that's gonna be a problem for me um then maybe we we do adjust on pricing or something other times like maybe it's a missing assignment from just like two steps up the chain well i know those are the guys too uh or at least have contact there so it's really not a big deal yep i'm not going to try to cram down on my seller i'm not going to say well well you know there is this problem in that problem you know don't be that guy because they're not going to want to deal with you in the future that's the heartache right um and lean on your your whoever's reading your files either the attorney or so you you know sodium could do it for yourself to know the fact of what the scenario is now most of the time i'd say 90 to 95 time you can fix collateral problems right it's when the company when is gone makes it difficult we had someone on uh kobe school they can solve these kind of problems right you can solve cloud problems more than you think you can't right yeah um we've had questions of what happens when it when uh assignment is blank or on uh you know depending on the state right and making sure that something else wasn't recorded in place that so if it's into blank leave it alone but if something's recorded after that that's when the problems happen so yeah more often than not if i see that there's something that's off in the file more often than not i'll just go ahead with the sale as is i'm not going to go back to the seller and be like well you know and start listing off all the things like you're not kicking tires here you're not you know that's it's not that's not a good relationship yeah and they're not going to want to deal with you in the future so yeah you know suck it up and realize that we're buying hairy loans and that's just how it is so and then just go and then when the sellers got more to sell they'll they'll want to deal with you because you're not going to cause a bunch of problems and whine and crying and there's some buyers out there they'll do all this due diligence before they buy a note yeah so they argument is hey listen the seller knows that they're i'm ready to go ready to make things happen um if you're new i don't advise it right um because you can spend a lot of time money energy so before you buy it don't buy your bpos don't buy your own e's don't you know go and jump on pacer just get an idea ballpark what you'd pay for loan based on the data that's on the tape that's it yeah yeah you can talk yourself out of anything so yes don't freak yourself out they're hairy loans just get used to that that's okay and a lot of the thing we talked about is fixable yes and a lot of these things we talked today if you go back and tell us listen this loan is missing four different things blah blah blah and i can't go up to you know citibank and get this stuff i don't have the contact um or say listen do you have it no we don't have it right you get more values off there's certain things that really could go back and say listen i can't buy this model right we had a loan where the seller thought the house worth 180 grand price came back at like 50.

yeah listen i can buy this loan but i'm not gonna buy it at with the price i gave you yeah well that's way too low okay yeah i've had it where listen i found there's an eight thousand dollar tax lien you know what we'll reduce the price by eight thousand dollars perfect yep great and we'll say to them listen this is based on the data we got our our current alert we have the tax delinquency is zero and if it comes about that then we work on it now again guys if the taxes come back and it's a thousand dollars or 500 bucks don't nickel and dime the seller right um if you don't have 500 bucks in the deal unless it's a really really small deal just understand the fact that don't rank you can go have these with them if you want four thousand five when it gets up to six seven eight thousand that's when the concerns happen right if it's a fifty thousand dollar purchase price and you're worried about 500 bucks you have some numbers that are really kind of screwy but if you're 2500 or so above that on a 50 000 purchase ask for a split hey listen here's where it's at i don't want to kill you but that's when you can start working negotiations now again you can ask for a full payoff but you don't always have to right right well yeah a thousand dollar tax bill is not a deal breaker and that's really probably not a reason to go back on the seller and try to get a reduced price yeah because you can burn your bridge right yeah cool well man i i'm looking forward to moving forward i know we have a few more um things planned for the next few weeks yeah some really cool stuff um one we are looking forward to that i think a lot of you guys uh definitely should tune in for um but i'm not gonna burst a bubble yet what it's about uh it'll be in august that one's probably gonna be one of our bigger ones to be a lot of questions yeah so be ready for that one um we have a few more ideas we're coming up if you guys do want to hear anything else different or separate or ideas you want us to talk about post it email us hit us up whatever you want to do um but let's go from there guests that you want to have out here yeah whatever let us know if there's a special thing you want to talk about and you're the guest you know about let's bring them on let's talk to them this is a great opportunity to just get out there and network right we find out things by networking yeah um education's a big thing but networking is probably the biggest thing for me for what i learned the best versus the presenter so cool thank you very very much everyone i appreciate tuning in nathan always a pleasure man hopefully you have a great weekend i know it's supposed to be seeing what decent weekend except for sunday for us but rainy on sunday but otherwise it looks great yeah so sounds good we will uh we will talk soon everyone have a good time and we'll uh have fun you bet thanks you [Music] hey everybody dave fitz here from jkp holdings alongside me as always nathan turner how you doing what's up man um i'm glad to see you connecting today it's been a crazy week i would say um things have just been busy yeah stuff with everything going on with company personal stuff and some other stuff going on it's been crazy week um you know for me this summer time flies by and that's one thing i kind of you know hate to say right we hate seeing the summertime just gone yeah yeah my wife and i are looking at the calendar going forward and so this week is this because this week is this i mean there's really four or five weeks left and that's it and so we're looking at this and things are getting scheduled in and it's you know kind of a nice change from last year but at the same time it's getting back to two years ago when it was crazy busy and yeah i think for me it's just you know we don't have much summer like you guys right we just don't get into it as quickly so it's like really a few months and weekends poke up extremely quick yeah so it's just making sure we have everything put together so um you know so just everyone know i want to make sure everyone knows that this we put on youtube and facebook and all that stuff but just i think you'll take a look at you know nathan has a website as well so i know i have some emails this week nathan i don't think we've ever shared your website out publicly so what what is your website so that interesting question because currently it's canadianguy.com in the next week or two uh the new website will be launching and that's earnestinvesting.com cool so ernest is the the home company canadian oil guy was always just uh like doing business as name but canadian no guy is is has been great and now people still want to call me that that's great but uh but the company has always been earnest ink so earnest investing is going forward uh our fund is ready uh i just have to set up the bank account and then we're starting to raise capital so we're excited to get that going yeah so you know guys i want to make sure you guys go into his website as well content's there right he has information year's experience and you know definitely take a look at youtube um hit that subscribe button i was told by my assistant lauren make sure you describe the bell so you get all these good updates but tune in to what we share but also what nathan shares well so look them up and all that stuff we wanted to dive in today and what we're going to talk about is a topic that um i'm sure we've shared before about but it's really drilling in on what happens when you accept the offer and we talked about the paperwork whatever but we didn't really dive into the due diligence what do you do for we know the pre-due diligence the bpos or reviews assets but now you've got the bid offer accepted now we got the scary part right yeah yeah 100 assets or one now you really need to hone in and you only have a matter of days right where pre-due diligence could be a lot less yeah and it's easy to kind of scratch the surface on all this stuff but but it's pretty detailed and and it's important to get into it and make sure you know what you're looking at what it means uh what stuff doesn't matter that you're looking at and and how you can move forward from there yeah with that said you know i would say for me that is probably the most scariest part right because now the next step is funding yeah right so you know when you get into the pre stuff you can always find a way to just ask on the ass and not make an offer now the offer has been accepted now what right and and again this it's not like real estate where you can just throw out a whole bunch of offers and just kind of yeah hope and you know the shotgun approach and you'll burn bridges very quickly in this business where you make an offer you get a bit accepted it's expected that you will close on that yeah it's it's not a typical thing and it's not a normal thing to back out there has to be a good reason um and if there's a good reason you can for sure but uh but you're going into this with good intent and you know the ability and promise to perform and and we're not saying you can't get out of a deal right but you lead literally have to have a legitimate reason right we've got to have deals where the collateral paper was questionable and we said listen can you fix it the answer is no or the house disappeared the values change all those kind of little things can make a deal different right yeah so uh feel free we're on facebook live right now you can definitely ask questions there whatever you need to do um but we're just gonna chat away here if no one has questions kind of just roll through things now what you're gonna find out is that sometimes me nathan may differ on what we do here and that's great um just know the fact that's available right um now nathan you get an email from the seller bid's accepted yeah what's your first step usually what do you first do first thing i do at that point is i order right away so here's what i used to do here's what i do now what i used to do is i would order bpo and e at the same time and i'd get both of those done right away uh and what i found was it was happening more often than not or often enough that it was becoming a problem is i would get that bpo back and it was drastically different like i i had value i you know on on paper what i could see online and everything i'd come up with a value of 75 and i'd get this bpo back at 50 and i go oh well that's a totally different story um and especially if it's an underwater loan you know if there's no equity in there then that matters a great deal so i've actually i've changed it up a little bit where as much as i can i'll i'll get a confirmation on value before i order the only true and i i get the impression you tell me what you find but i think that back five six seven years ago it was um been accepted you're closing within like three to five maybe seven days and now i i feel like that's stretched out a little bit not a lot but enough that i can stagger those two reports at the very least yeah and i i definitely agree with you i think that you know things have changed over the years i think is we need to adapt to what you know is available now so yeah um and in newer people down in the space and so they're kind of understanding that um and bigger companies are used to trades being a lot bigger so three four days to do 100 assets is not enough yeah exactly so they definitely adjust that um i think for me you know they expect you to be able to review that collateral get your bpo get your own e within 72 hours and be done um i would say that's not always possible um because a lot of attorneys or whoever's review your collateral if it's outside source they want to see the l a before they even look at that actually yeah yeah the cloud file yeah so so that's important i what i often do is for me for bpo is i email out to all my agents all my investor friends if they're local to a property it's automatically done and i get a feel before i bid on it what i know about it it's my value's pretty confident what i do when the bid's accepted is then i just have them go out there and drive by the property make sure the property's still there make sure the value is pretty still on um and do things like that so i think for me that worked out well yeah yeah and it's interesting because sometimes and it's it's interesting how there's a standard but but there's quite a bit of variation in that standard so we'll get a tape and it'll usually have the same kind of information um but it depends on who it's coming from and and what the background is sometimes they'll have like a current status so it'll tell you if they've started foreclosure other times you don't get that information at all and so that's verifying all that information is is a big deal true when do you typically order that o e so now i typically order that after i get uh some kind of confirmation value whether that's a bpo or i've already got an agent in that town and they can drive by that's usually faster if i if it's in a town i'm already in and i've got a realtor they can usually get that information back to me like within a day maybe two so then i'll order the only after that yeah for me i'm pretty much the same with you on that right where we would do something where we we get the value confirmed we talked to the agent or the investor and say listen our bid's been accepted we're moving forward i need a really good solid value from you you drive by the property i have no problem paying for that time and effort i want you to dive into this property right um let me know what you know about it if you happen to see a neighbor and wave to them and just ask a question that's great you really just know about what that property is it evolved now if you're doing uh brian's question howard we'll get to your question in a few minutes brian you asked the question you know what is wonder onenote versus multiple no purchase package when you're buying a five or ten you can still do the same process here right when you're buying 50 plus you've got to go bigger right so we've done that where we just order the bpos you kind of know the fact you're gonna get some home runs and some bad ones so you're oh you're you're ordering your ovens for your your title ownies you're ordering your bpos and typically as soon as you can get a collateral file review either by your attorney collateral management company or yourself yeah yeah and it it's it's kind of a how much time do you have to do that if you've if you've been given 30 days to close go ahead and look at every one of those yeah given you know seven to ten days you probably just simply won't have time yeah uh to go and and you know man and look at every single one of them yeah interestingly enough you know when you buy the one-off deals you're really gonna spend the time to know about that but understand you're not gonna know it inside out right you don't know all the problems so there's nothing to prevent you from being in a bad spot so and that's that's the risk of this business and you know there's always a risk in any investment you ever do and that's it for this it's when we're talking specifically about first lien mortgages is what kind of condition is the property that's that's really the number one risk and we're trying to mitigate that as much as possible and get whatever information we can but there's no way to know everything about that property and absolutely all the potential pitfalls yeah and when we look at these bpos or values make sure the property that they're copying is local right make sure that they're not two miles four miles away when you're inside of you know a city and if it's in a country area where it is kind of diverse just check out what you're looking at take a look at zillow or like our website and say listen the comms make sense read over it because that person doesn't care about as much you do right um you know one of the things that when we do go get the drive by is i want hey fellow no investor are you looking to learn the basics of note investing so you can get started however you don't want to spend a few hundreds or thousands of dollars and hours online on some training program have you thought about attending a notes conference however you don't want to spend the money or the time away from your family well we have a tremendous beginners video series of 20 different topics with each video being less than 15 minutes this means each video is less fluff and direct to the content visit www.jkpholdings.com beginner dash series to learn more again www.jkpholdings.com slash beginner dash series pictures i want to see what the house looks like we've thought before i don't want your opinion i just want the facts of what it is yeah you know don't don't tell me you think the roof is three months old show me what you are seeing that concerns you and let me know what that looks like right yeah when i'm looking at that bpo one of the most valuable things to me is you know you've got all the stats and the side-by-side comparisons but really one of the most uh valuable pieces is where you've got realtor comments and um there can be some really pertinent information on there that just doesn't fit in the chart yeah when you're putting down just raw numbers they'll say you know it's a whatever it's a really good neighborhood really bad neighborhood it's a good school district whatever that'll show up in the comments and that can be very valuable if they fill it out properly if they're just putting like a you know a copy and paste disclaimer in there then that's not so useful but that's where i want to see you know what's what's really going on what's the real information of what's happening in that area yeah and i want to like i said i want to see what the property is surrounded by right a lot of times we may be the best house neighborhood we may be the worst both have a piece right you're the worst house neighbor that would be a good thing we know we have some update if we're the best house neighborhood we have some problems i want to know what the worst looks like i want to know the other are competing against yeah um one of the facets we'd like to know is is it near a school right is it near church the main road nearby that diversifies that city town area and said this is the bad side of good side that information is valuable it lets us know some more stuff yeah it's really interesting you know if you think back i know i've lived in a couple of different cities in my life and and if if it's you know on the east side of this road or this river or this railroad track or or something there's usually some kind of dividing line you know north east southwest um there's something there usually there's some kind of dividing line uh that we'll say on this side is really good on this side not so much yeah and you know above or below this or on either side and it's as much as you can it's good to know that kind of information it's so true right we don't realize what we what because we know our own home ground we don't realize if we look at a map and think oh okay it is what it is it begs the question so the next thing we we typically look at is this o e thing right for those who don't know what it is it's when you buy a house and you get a mortgage they do a title search the title company confirms that that property has no prior liens and they give you an insurance policy just basically dumping it down that tells you that property is clean of any kind of leads yeah you're buying it clean yeah well at that point we don't need to know what happened before that purchase we just need to know when that purchase happens till now what's happening so that's often a lot cheaper than buying a full title yeah 200 bucks or so we look at the fact that what happened from that point to now what the tax duration is what other liens have come on all those kind of facets this is also typically faster like a full title you're talking about like sometimes a couple of weeks where in this you're talking maybe a couple of days yes so interesting enough we also get into a spot where these ons tell us a lot right it will often have collateral files for us they also have um foreclosure sometimes stuff in there it tells us taxes it tells us the the order of the liens have been recorded it tells us you know if if something's missing and not been recorded now maybe in the file they may not be recorded so um howard asked the question and what's a procedure for looking at the title and what should i know about the title right we want to know where the liens are what positions they went down yeah where taxes are are they paid not paid what other liens may be still on the property mechanics liens tax liens county liens water leans sometimes it's not on there oftentimes um one of the one of the real tricks of a key piece of information that's often not on a title report like this is delinquent taxes that have been sold that's usually not on there it'll show up because when they're doing it they're looking just from the county records and they'll say uh on the county records it'll just say paid what it doesn't say is purchased by somebody else and then they're holding it as a lien uh great point there's no way around that yeah but it's a little bit more involved so what he's basically saying is if that taxes are current they're not current because the buyer the borrowers paid them they could be current because someone bought the tax lien so if you look at it and you say okay so the borrower hasn't paid for the last two three years but the taxes are current and that's the red flag yeah why would they pay their taxes and not their mortgage there's there's some kind of disconnect there sometimes it's just as simple as that they paid their taxes but not their mortgage but usually uh that's an indication of something else and typically that's that the taxes were sold to a third party it also could be a situation where the lender has paid those taxes it was so current and that's going on top of your advanced you know events um proceeds to corporate advances so those are added on but we want to see where those things are and in the in really cool but in the lean part is the mapping right we look at it all time we want to make sure the chain that's recorded is in order yeah from company 8 it goes to company b the next line says company b to company e and you're like whoa whoa whoa how did c go to like b go to d it didn't it skipped so we need to find out a doesn't have it in the file and b we need to record it and get in the right position and you know there's all kinds of things that we can see and all kinds of little uh things that are wrong in there like 99 of those are fixable it's it's not that it's like a total disaster and that's gonna wreck the entire thing um that just that's the hair on the loan that you're gonna have to manage and not that it's necessarily a bad thing it's it's probably extra work but it's doable and you can take care of that and it's not yeah insurmountable no right we just need to know that right in the person reviewing your file wants to see that because they're going to say hey listen it's an exception the fact that this has been here and not recorded or this is not in the file and it's not recorded right right and depending on the state you could figure out things of you know uh when something is missing in the file how do you go about it the attorney will walk you through that some states allow you to have missing documents and have a copy of it bring all stuff i won't get too detailed in there for you guys but you can work it out yeah so these hopefully how are we asking answer your question um the next question we actually came in i'll put into our chat here for us let's actually go back to the liens for a second yeah the liens can be an interesting thing and and this is just going to take some experience and uh you know time to get it figured out because we're in first position um some liens matter to us and the other ones don't yes good point so the one of the craziest ones that i ever saw was uh the the lien holder was a united states government and i went what is that it turned out it was like uh like a seizure something or other some like drug bust kind of so i i didn't buy that one because that to me was a deal breaker [Laughter] so that that takes precedent over the first lead mortgage um but a lot of them don't and so you don't need to you can see you know they might have a bit of a laundry list of liens on there they don't necessarily all matter to you yeah and it does iristly know the fact that they can redeem i think it's 210 days correct me wrong 20 days a redeemed now granted the irs probably has like only a few million dollars for the entire country to redeem anything yeah right and if they do they're going to go after the ones who actually have more equity or whatever situation so more than likely not to worry about that's actually just an extension on to your redemption period right it's not clean title clinical right but when we say this kind of things you know you can look at these liens and know the fact that we have a situation where an hoa started a foreclosure growth in ohio and we're okay with it great we knew the fact we were in second position or we're in first position they can't jump us and i'm sure before they actually did because the person i bought it from never actually answered the claim so we're actually out of the case so when you get this kind of stuff and you see that the foreclosure started with the document go and see look at the document i didn't i had presumed look at the document and say what happened in the foreclosure and i said they're going to sit and wait they probably started it and they're just sitting back and waiting for someone to do something else well they started foreclosure within a few months of me modding it and it just was craziness so read all the documents and see you can see a lot in that in that o and e we call title it's not really a title query it's a part of a title but it's not and it really is just kind of you you'll get comfortable with it you'll read it and you'll see you know a dozen of them and you start to get an idea of an idea of what's what's on there and what matters and what kind of information you can get on there and most of them are the same format yeah mostly same format you can know where to go with things right documents the bottom line if you order from pro title and alex and over there so those kind of things happen um so doug asked the question what is the procedure you do to check to make sure the tax lien has been sold or how do you find out what anti-purchase tax plan all right so for the tax lien um there's a couple things you can do one of the easiest things you do is just call the county and say hey i'm just checking in on these taxes can you just let me know if there were any that were sold uh it'll take you two minutes and you'll be able to get that information uh if you don't feel like getting on the phone you can order a report i think that they still do this uh through um who was it dang black knight like that yep uh they did uh they would do a report i haven't actually ordered one for quite some time uh i called accounting because it's yep two minutes yeah um but they do offer that report and it's cheap i back when i was ordering them before it was like 12 or 14 or something like that like they're really not expensive and it was a really good report uh but it just i can call so i'll call yeah absolutely i agree with you totally you know for me it's the time i need right i make a quick phone call the county records remember all this stuff is public knowledge it's not that it's hidden behind closed doors it's all public information for everyone so make sure you kind of check that stuff out um so let's go to our next step what are you typically looking for now one of my next items is typically annual taxes right um knowing the fact that the annual taxes are the dollar amount what they are because i need to know it from my calculation yeah i'm going to foreclose administration and say take me six months i need to estimate the extra tax that were due plus what moves forward yeah i can't forget the fact that taxes are still accumulating yeah yeah no that's a great point and that's definitely one that i look at as well uh you can get up into ohio or someplace where it's like four thousand dollars a year on this little you know thousand square foot bungalow versus one for example i've got down in mississippi and it's 600 a year so that makes a tremendous difference to my numbers uh so i want to just make sure i know what that is so like for this one in mississippi um we had to listen for sale we actually just went into contract for somebody we're selling doing a seller finance deal and we were looking at you know as we're holding it we get a tax bill and well do we need to pay that right now or can we wait until we're selling it it's seller finance and now we're gonna have to pay it anyway or if we sold it uh through the realtor just the cash deal that would have come out of escrow so rather than having to come out of my pocket it would have just come out of escrow and it's 600 bucks so i don't care yeah in this case i'm gonna have to pay it but i was willing to put it off because it's 600 bucks and then the penalty on that's gonna be an extra 20 bucks so i was willing to let that go yeah just so i didn't have to come out of pocket for that it's funny because you know uh same story like i was remember being in a car couple years ago we had a property in alabama for closing on it was auction day and i had to come up with the dollars to pay out yeah i'm like telling my wife like oh my god i forgot i got to make the payment for the question and where you saw our tax bill right yeah in new jersey and the tax bill was like 423 dollars yeah her first question was is that for a quarter right like we're you know thousand dollars tax bill a year and that's for the whole year so yes can taxes make or break you depends what state you're in yeah if it's most likely a state with lower taxes you're not gonna be killed it but you need to know it right you need to know projecting out you're buying in ohio and you....