Wrap-Around Mortgages and Due Diligence Strategies | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: JKP Live with ‪@WalterWofford‬ Talking Wraps and Due Diligence Nathan's Goals and Plans: - Planning to test the family member trust strategy with HUD tenants to capture rap equity - Intends to send letters to HUD property owners asking if they're burned out on management - Plans to print blank contracts at future networking events and ask people what they want to sell Key Recommendations: - Price seller finance notes at 9-10% to ensure they're sellable and refinanceable, avoiding usury laws - Always wrap the underlying loan with identical terms when selling to protect ability to reclaim the deal if borrower defaults - Use IRAs to originate these deals to neutralize capital gains tax liability on the sale - Include explicit permission language in notes and deeds of trust for wrap-around sales clauses - Use trusts as landlords (not individuals) when implementing family member structures to preserve HUD rent subsidy eligibility - Implement two insurance policies (one for lender, one for borrower) when banks are involved in underlying loans - Use REO agents and build local networks to source deals outside your immediate area Topics Discussed: - Wrap-around mortgage equity extraction and strategies - HUD tenant properties and rent subsidy preservation using trust structures - Pricing seller finance notes correctly for market conditions - Tax implications of owner-financed sales and IRA strategies - Due diligence on wrap deals and underwriting requirements - Insurance and lender considerations with wrap structures - Networking strategies for sourcing deals - Subject-to deals vs wraps and risk mitigation Guest Insights: - Walter Wofford shared 42 years of wrap experience including early 1970s strategies - Emphasized that proper underwriting is critical - many investors discover tax liabilities too late in the year - Cautioned that selling to owner-occupants creates problems; selling to landlords with tenant-found family members 'squashes all those concerns' - Noted that when rates were 3%, the underwriting margin was reasonable, but at 7-7.5% margins become extremely slim so make sure we're quite cool so let's go back to where we were so we're talking about the fact that it's rap Equity situation rap Equity is this the difference between what the first lien is and the balance of what the newly originated node is so what do you do with that Equity what can you do with it well you could trade it you can discount it and sell it or you can hold on to it let me give you a little sidebar back when I was just a young realtor pup 35 years ago I was interested in raps because there was somebody doing wraps here and uh he had done 30 of me there were uh VA loans in the Newton subdivision the house was worth about 35 and when people left he just took over their payments so he so he wrapped it so he had and he didn't even realize that you could have different interest rates he said I was wrapped at whatever the interest rate was I said oh my gosh lost opportunity this is a guy who'd done 30 of them but uh anyway so the you can do it a lot with rap equity and let me tell you something I did this week all right so I'm still learning things after 42 years David so I called up a burned out landlord and said you registered your house yeah I want to sell it I said so I made him a deal for 33 3 000 down it's got a hot tenant paying 847.

it's a three one and a half so in that case he wanted eight percent so I said yeah I'll pay you eight percent and so the payments uh there's plenty of money if I wanted to keep it 847 30 000 it was a 12-year amortization's plan it was a good cash flow probably three or four hundred dollars a month cash flow but I had this idea that I personally don't like the whole rent subsidy game mainly because you can't sell in my house right yeah yeah absolutely and they don't take nobody no tenant is going to pay takes good care of a house as an owner that's the theory I don't know if that's true but that's the theory I agree with you so I got thinking about this well it's really uh another investor said it should be nine 50 should be the rent so 75 under rented so I had this idea I'm going to go to the tenant when I do my due diligence and say do you have a family member that's got 5 000 bucks and would like to make 200 a month and so use a trust and so the tenant would find somebody in their family who would be the landlord whoa and that's not Dodd-Frank that's right yeah of course the landlord is not an owner I would just pick up a 20 000 rap equity and but the good thing about it is that HUD tenant is going to be there until they die and why is that because the family member is the one taking care of it not me yeah yeah any problems that go right to the fan number interesting you know yeah I have not I've never heard of flipping it and getting the the rap you know the tenant occupied a house flipping it to a note but not make them the owner because that may not be able to whatever but make their failure for an owner um they can't they can't be the owner and still receive it and that's the reason we use trust because subsidy is a huge part wow that's cool I've never heard of that yeah well when all secrets out a few first few minutes this is awesome let me try a couple of them and see how it works but I'll tell you what I did uh you know you can get a listing of all uh the HUD available properties you can go find a list of Hud properties why not send a letter to all the owners said to you as the has the thrill of management left you [Laughter] and how about if I just uh bought from you and keep your payments coming and let's sit down and talk about it and I just do the same thing awesome well I mean uh just the FYI we're kind of multi-chadness here um I see Jamar we have Mark we have Brian Edward in the chat feel free to ask some questions we're gonna be talking about a bunch of different topics we're testing this whole Theory out by going live on on Walter's awesome platform here um I never understood the whole raps world I think it's something new to me um because Jersey for my knowledge doesn't really permit raps maybe they do and I just never heard of it um but to me it sounded like with 30 billion dollars originated last year this is really the seller Appliance Market not the one-off brother and sister who got a house from a deceased relative who wants to sell that house on numbers it's these kind of people that are really the ones who are doing that big Market yeah and you know so back when I started there was no information I called up the realtor library in Chicago I said what have you got on wraps and they sent me one three-page article that was it what year was this you think it was back in the late 70s probably okay so there's a lot more out there there's plenty of information now let me just say another thing that I do oftentimes when I'm financing to a to a homeowner I'll get them to sign an underlying short amortization and then wrap it so they'll be signing two notes two to each Trust okay and the reason I do the 80 20.

it just depends on the deal it could be 50 50. depends on you know so what I want to do is create some liquidity into my wrap so if I had to sell something I'd sell it first um and keep the and then that liquid couldn't you sell that absolutely a seven year advertising loan yeah yeah this is awesome stuff I mean this is stuff that you know over the years you kind of learn as you said before we learned every day something new always comes up a technique a strategy just by brainstorming you never know you may come up with idea just by talking here so you know Rob's something we're diving into um we did a webinar recently this last Friday about making sure the numbers because most people don't understand that if you create this rap don't be selling a wrap at six percent or seven percent because it just hurts your your numbers you should be getting up to the nine nine have ten avoiding usury law but make sure it's up there high enough for people to really kind of either make it sellable make it refinanceable if they want to make it have options where you deal with five six percent loan the banks are doing higher than you are and to me makes no sense well and things markets change so I went I was liquidating four notes that I had homeowner notes that were at 7.75 and to liquidate those notes I had to take over twenty thousand dollars a discount gotcha and so I said now what in the world am i setting myself up to have to take a discount so I just gave myself a raise in a Mississippi 10 is uh you you can't Finance for more than ten percent for residential so that's more like market rate isn't it yeah yeah and what's weird because we just have to Mar uh maximum call the underwriter about the fact that when laundry at three percent usually law that was okay right but when these rates are getting at the seven seven and a half that margin get really Slim now which kind of stinked I wish they did percentage um but this idea of raps I think is 2023 right where you're literally able to borrow money from a seller at two three percent on 100 200 300 400 000 at two percent rapid and create a note at nine nine and a half ten I mean it's almost a no-brainer right well here's the code for you can't tell you a tip so I did this years ago I bought a house subject two and uh and I forgot how much I gave down but then I stole it to my handyman so it was just a transfer for me to him and he took it subject to okay well he got they got behind on his payments and there wasn't anything I could do to get back in the deal because I didn't own it I didn't have the debt and so it was ruining the person's credit the underlying credit and you so what my cautionary tale is if you're going to sell it to somebody else wrap the underlying with identical terms if that's what you're going to do to give you a way to get back in the deal if they don't pay amazing thanks absolutely what have you what have been some of the struggles you've come across so many issues concerns or problems you've run across well explaining a rap is difficult to do a civilian right it's difficult to explain why you've got two forty thousand dollar mortgages when you're selling it for forty thousand dollars that's kind of difficult absolutely and so that's that's probably the main thing you know the insurance issues too if you got a bank involved as an underlying then and then you buy it you got to do it with insurance company and sometimes the only way to deal with insurance companies have two policies so one for the lender one for the borrower okay how do you handle with this rap idea the you know a loan to be called when sold is there a way or idea about that well when you're creating your seller finance notes when you're buying just go ahead and put it in there Clause it says seller uh gives me the right to sell this house utilizing wrap around loan and then I tell them what it is and they don't ever have an exception but do you need permission from the first lien because it sold into seller financing okay you can't do that with a bank per se but you can do that with settled finance and just put that permission statement into the note and into the Data Trust so there's not any question about that paragraph 17 or 18 to do on sale Clause yeah it just neuters it dollars so technically it's sold but it sold several financing so it's a little different yeah and you really got to use your IRA to buy these houses when you're selling when you're doing these routes because it also neuters the capital gain most people don't know this well here's the thing so when you sell a house if you're the owner you get ratted out by your attorney in most cases sales price is and they don't there are no deductions in there it's just a top number sure and so when you sell to a homeowner with seller financing um that's a taxable event regardless if you get the cash or not and we gave an example to somebody that if they had done one a month rated twenty thousand dollars a month rap Equity did 12 of them only to find out at the end of the year that they had two hundred and forty thousand dollar taxable event that's not the right time to find that out you got to put the the IRA at the beginning yeah yeah so you know the key here is to originate and then underwrite correctly right because if you don't underwrite and you're selling this house to owner occupied that's the problem but when you get around the idea of being a tenant and sell it to a landlord it squashes all those concerns which is really awesome you know one of the things we're going on is also to show is the fact that when we're trying to acquire assets one of the things we do personally is we we look at a network with as many people as possible because you never know who knows something who knows an asset um but also the fact knowing people local to any area you're looking at means you don't have to always work in your backyard if you have a great connection in a local town and you're looking at an asset that comes across your desk in that town one of the best people to speak to is that expert investor that you work with all the time to make sure that you can get some local knowledge about it um one of the other facets is is that we work with as REO agents um and what for me having the network having an RO agent kind of squashes the idea I'm not big on bpos let's watch the idea of you can't oh you have to buy in your backyard all the time right I don't find that to be true well you talk about networking I just thought about some we had a Christmas party for a local real estate group and it's about six years 70 people there I should have done this but I didn't I'm going to next time we're having a party like that I'm going to print out 60 blank contracts say here you fill them out what do you want to sell like that tell me something you're selling just don't put your kids on there right put whatever number you want to put on there yeah what it is and I'll go look at it yeah just strum up something you're just getting interest so you know one of the things we do in our we've been buying notes uh in 2010 uh a lot less time than you've been doing it but we all do it a little bit differently right and I think networking with other people allows you to learn how other people do what you do in different areas so you can learn even if they're newer from you or older it doesn't matter because you get your own ways and just taking information from everybody is really key um one of the things that I learned over the years is the math right one of the things I didn't understand when I first got into space is this calculation stuff notes a lot about calculations and legal process about the property itself however the underlying secured asset is that asset being in the house or land be it the land and what we walk into is this idea of due diligence and stuff like that um collateral files right how do you guys review cloud files in-house hire attorney do you have a company what do you use to do for your collateral review well I'm not buying notes I'm manufacturing them so that's that's a major difference of notes in my life okay so when you originate it are you originating your own kind of documents or you have an attorney draft them up well it's funny we have attorneys here not title companies so much but uh they they know all my squirrely clauses I hate that word well I tell you what my number one attorney when I first time I did a rap He said Walter you got any forms I don't have any of these so I'll send in my forms oh my gosh it it's amazing this rap world because you can sell it you can sell partial in any of these in a second and get most of your money back in seconds right so you're getting at these subjectives and rap loans for almost nothing and then you're literally selling it in a thin air and you can sell partial and get most of your money back so um let's also we get in a lot of feedback I know this is the first time we're doing this so I just let you know while we got a lot of participants so feel free to put my mess in the chat I'm kind of dual taskiness hey I got a test question for you now you're going to be okay put the hat on all right if you if you negotiate a seller finance mortgage for eighty thousand okay you sell it to a homeowner for eighty thousand can you make any money if the interest rate's the same you get to decide that okay well you can make money you can do down payment interest rate can change right and a term can change right for my eyes you absolutely can all right so if you negotiate a zero percent purchase which is not that hard to do on the buy side so let's just take a eighty thousand dollars zero percent interest at 800 a month and then you sell it for eighty thousand dollars at ten percent interest a month oh my gosh a little bit longer amortization yeah let me ask you something is that a taxable event no no because nothing gets sold no you sell it but you it's the same price that you bought it for oh yes yeah yeah yeah basically it's a wash so but the point of that is to realize that negotiating is the most highly paid job there is I give zero percent of the interest loans all the time I do I'm not gonna ask somebody to do something I don't do I'll do it and so and but that's usually a junker that I got to get off my inventory you know something I want to get going absolutely but uh so just keep that in mind that if you're good at negotiable and it could be full retail price you got that you can sell it full retail price and buy a dollar amount squash the taxes change interest rate change a term put this in your IRA and just cash flow right if you don't have to negotiate with a seller and it's only hit and run is that you don't come in there slinging your gun with price the price is not what sells a a seller on the idea of seller financing its benefits you got to talk why should they sell it what helps them what's the benefit for them well it's because they let that deferred maintenance go on for 30 years and somebody that porch is falling off that house right right but if it's a if you know if section 121 says if you live in the house for two out of five years then unless it's an expensive house you're not going to owe any taxes anyway but you could Finance it and get an income stream and the interest if there are any interest would be taxable but also installment centers if you if you elect to if you can negotiate to so this is for the seller who sell the finances for 10 years and let's say he's got a big gain in there it's an investment property he pays taxes as he receives the money not in a lump sum much installment soil because it's not really a sale with a lump sum of 80 grand being in a pocket it's literally chopped up which spreads that tax a little bit over 10 years I like it these are the kind of things that we don't talk about enough well and except if you're a dealer in the property then I've been told you can't take him Stones so it's it's a it's a you got to weave through all of that not true gotcha so I I'm learning a lot here which I really appreciate because I think the knowledge that we all kind of have inside of us should be shared more for me uh I think as Walter has found out quickly I'm more of a tech kind of person um and my mom yes we've gone back and forth on the tech ideas in a while and this is one of the things we've been working on for a while just to get it live just to try it out for a quick minute to see if we can get you know some kind of traction see where people are at with your group and we want to make sure the group knows the fact that boosting and commenting is encouraged because that's how we all grow and knowledge and share your your what you're good at so you know I wanted to get into the back to networking to me networking is you know if I find a deal it doesn't fit me I never know if it won't fit Walter unless I open my mouth right and Walter would you pay broker fee to me that if I've done a deal for you that doesn't fit in my bucket if it's your bucket sure how about a fee of course or a slice a piece of the deal oh I think they're even better right so this idea we can't help each other is hogwash to me um which I think people fall apart we kind of get too competitive and not be cooperative because we're all kind of doing a different angle of the same investment we're all real estate we're all the niche of notes but we're doing it in a different way and we all can help each other without be a win-win which is always a goal for us yeah but everybody's got their unique skill sets yes but beginners don't have many of any of it right okay but more more experience have that but I spoke to our local real estate group yesterday and I started out with uh what do you do when somebody calls you to sell a house what's the first thing you do and so one person said I tried to check for motivation that's a good answer next person said I want another prize say that that's not important when you're selling financing that's not the first thing you need to know and the other one is I want an address okay that's a fair question but uh I would get all of that when somebody called me but I would go directly to the title search I want to know that I'm dealing with the person who owns it and the reason I'm telling you that this week I had somebody approached about selling me an office right down the street and I I may I want to buy it uh and the seller says well come on I'll get you into it and then I get a call from somebody else who owns the property not the person who thought they owned the property you think it's important to find out what we've been with yeah because you never know and if it's not the person correctly you can be in bad shape because what are you dealing you're you you have no power and that seller finds out and then you spend all the time and energy to do due diligence on this asset that you came by so that's I think it's an important skill for all you that are listening is take the time to become a title expert hmm and of course that means you got to read the documents you know what's in a mortgage for a date of trust or it's what or what is not in a mortgage or Data Trust say I think that's more important is figuring out what's not in there than what's in there give me an example what you mean by that well for example um if there's a provision that prohibits you from selling a note you need to know that don't you I would think so absolutely that's a huge one yeah well how would you find that out simple things right back to second grade um you know it's amazing um for all those of listening I I do think beginners have some skills um be it whatever they did in their W-2 job or whatever they did the background young kids are really good technology right but also time a lot of these people who are getting in the space have time so and it's not it's time to learn time to research time to understand you know go down the county records or talk to attorneys or talk to you if you have that time utilize it what do you think wholesalers and bird dogs do they expect time to find deals spend the time to watch videos educate yourself get out there call people up ask questions email people spend that time and if you want to Mentor you can do that kind of stuff you can just learn by doing um you know when you get an acid I try to eliminate the lead as quickly as possible yes he's legit is it real is it worthwhile I don't want to spend my time on something that's just not worth it uh I know how to drive around town looking at houses I don't need any more lessons on that but you know what if we if we can Embark 20 of your experience and some new one that can drive around the whole town and do it over and over again and kind of you know bring deals to you it may be worthwhile to transition that right or for someone who wants to learn I think at that time is their benefit right now if you're 19 20 21 years old even 30 years old and you have some time start doing stuff make mistakes you know just don't deal with other people's money well if the more you know about financing and title work the easier your job is because you can out negotiate people who are just interested in price right should be the last thing well I could pay full recently price yes and settle the full retail price if I got the terms that I want correct you know it's a shame that most time we buy assets they want to replace right and it's like well what if I offer you a partial what if we buy you know the whole thing what if we you know do other things but a bit price most of the time is all they want um but you know when you get an asset what are your typical steps to evaluate that asset what are some of this thing are you looking at the county records are you wanting comps are you you know getting you know if it's been listed for sale in the past I don't care anything about comps that doesn't matter to me what I'm interested in is what it should rent for but yeah my VA that I got full time that she she's got her routine that she pulls up so we're tracking foreclosures right now and I said so what do you do so I want her to get me a Google map a picture of the property I want to know the land role information I want her to do a a judgment search very important I want her to go send me the the last two pages of the sectional index that has all the Deeds for the last 10 years all the all the transactions see in Hinds County you can't you can't view a document without going down to the county now luckily for my office is one and a half miles from the county right but see that's a real benefit because I asked in the group yesterday said how many people know how to run title in here and there were 25 people in the room and one person raised their hand yeah they need to know that skill yeah and it can be as simple as going either the county or look at the county records online and just starting there just looking at the county records and seeing what's on what is and what got you know removed just to get the idea of what does that look like just do it and then practice it you know um every county is different right either have to be a line or not a line but then when you look at the county screen you have to figure out what where's the mortgage is it been released has it not been released is this judgment here is it that and then the person searches a flip side of this whole thing because there's realtor uh real estate liens and you have person judgment liens two different markets there right and most in many cases yes I would be it may be recorded to say County recorder's office or it may be at the circuit clerk depending on what kind of judgment it is yeah yeah absolutely so I know that one things we do um when we run stuff like that we get a list of assets we're on the Note buying side and we get a list of assets and we want to start our process of valuing an asset my first step is to find out information about that property right um I'd like to know bedroom bathroom Square footages I do get some quick avms just to get a ballpark are we working on a 20 000 asset or 150 000 asset um I also get things like is it been listed for sale which means motivation right it was listed six months ago for sale we're gonna find out the motivation here I want to talk to the agent right if I can um if it's sold recently I want to know that too but I also want to find things out like has there been foreclosure started on that asset on the Note buying side the Foreclosure part is a real key thing um and then what we also look at we have a uh our Kentucky show the group here but we have the ability to a look up uh we have a service or fee charts so we know every single servicer we're licensed at um and what their fees are we have a huge chart in our due diligence portal uh we also have the um we have all these agents we can list up we have uh the attorney which you can add to and see I need to turn it here or there it's all available and we also have a group our Facebook page a group that is a director of people we're looking to do that with this group here is that a directory not to blast email we're not looking to you know mass emails about it's more to network with people and say listen let's shake hands virtually and say hello right um so you know one of the things we work on here is automating some of these processes um I don't need to manually go on Zillow and say it's a three bedroom one bath 1200 square feet you can automate these processes um you can automate getting these dollars these values that all these Services have just to get a ballpark before you spend the time and energy right I don't buy anything that's worth less than 50.

just it's not worth my time as a no buyer so I need a quick gauge where this value property is at um it was above 50 I'm looking at it so last time we spoke I was going through my portal which I I've definitely shown a second here and I only spent a few minutes on it because I wanted to make sure we remind everyone's time here we do when we show these kind of things um we literally have the ability to um let me bring up mine here we have the ability to pull all kinds of stuff here um we have the ability to look at resources right we have the ability to um pull agents see uh cfd data points um we have things like uh service comparison Ira companies um state laws for cfts and all these kind of things in no conferences too which we're coming up right we have all these different resources one of the things that I use more than anything else is our data tools so if it's not in your backyard well what do you typically do do you buy anything outside your backyard no I don't I mean I've got is I've got enough opportunities every day here in my market I don't I'm not saying it's a bad idea to buy outside your Market it's just I never have gotcha so one thing we have in our system is if you are buying outside your Market is a local REO agent we have ten thousand of them and it's literally done by uh launching latitude so it will capture 20 any up to 20 agents local to any property and you can do this in bulk or individual asset it's not one-off you can do one off you want to but you don't need to right what we're able to do here is capture over 60 different data stuff through data fields from the abms to everything else so let me show you a quick example of what we're talking about if I go to results here you can see in disk and download to an Excel spreadsheet you can literally upload it your note buying an entire list of addresses and the data team up disk and then it exports back down a spreadsheet with all the data points you're about to see so we're able to take it this is a single asset I'm sorry um let me go back here we're able to in a bold fashion take it and look at stuff and see all these kind of things and we can individually see the results so I can go ahead here and go to result details and see things such as the property the the owner's name phone number sometimes right we can see bedrooms bathroom Square footages we're capturing this stuff within seconds of the this running through um we can get multiple values up to five if they're available I can get the annual tax amount I can get I not pulling a delinquent taxes but I'm pulling this kind of data points um yeah when you first the first page you pulled up the head of Jackson yes let's see what that is sure I might have to buy a house from you oh so where are we at I saw it it's a book let me go let me go oh me was the mean well all I saw was the Jackson Mississippi let me go back here right here okay let's take a look at it this is the test kind of thing for us but you can get idea of what it looks like so I can literally based on this pole let me see what's down here okay so um I'm seeing the fact it wasn't for sale I have the owner's information but this all downloads with a spreadsheet which to me when I'm evaluating my assets this PDF doesn't do anything for me right but I'm able to see annual tax amount with the tax assessment market value is and then uh we'll have to fix this but we can see the days on Market the average for that local meaning how many days that average our market for this area is it a high or low number we're also able to see the population so for people buying outside the market and they don't want to buy an area where the population of the the city or county is too small then it's hugely available right uh wearable pull lender information on some deals um we can find if price if it listed for sales they're available any agent why is the agent important to me if it was listed three months ago I'm gonna call the agent and find out what they're going to sell right what was it was someone so is this a note that it has to be a note that comes across your day it could be anything updates on the address of the new upload speed or copy paste right into the system and it exports all this data I can download it print it or whatever I want to do I can download the whole kit caboodle all the assets or one single address that's good yeah and for no buyers we get our our tapes right and we want to gather this data I literally I think it's between two and nine seconds in address um and we're gonna be redoing the the cost of this real soon and making it even lower um we're trying to get to the point where it's less than uh basically less than 50 cents an address that's our goal um and we may even get cheaper than that which is really awesome um we're just working Logistics but I wanted to get you can get free access if you log in all that stuff you can get I think 45 free credits um the reason for credits is we have a server in the background but when you run this or if you run our agent search as you can probably see in this example um when you run an agent search we can get in a bulk or single we're able to pull up any agent within a longitude latitude figures out all of an address so in this case here as you can see we ran this address right and what we're able to pull is the agent's information their phone number their email address these are Oreo agents right um where they're from information about them we get up to 20 each address you can email them call them whatever you want to do to me I'd rather speak to a local agent or a local investor than ordering a BPL just to me I'd rather call them and get local expertise knowledge of a real estate uh agent who works with banks yeah or We Buy Houses guy that's always a good way to do it what would you pay yeah so getting this information either through the resources right we have a directory of agents who other people recommended we also have things like servicers and attorneys and product managers that other people have recommended to the group we have our Facebook member directory but we're looking to add Walter on here too and just getting information this is stuff that you can find out um and share the information so to me this stuff here is invaluable and when I download this stuff to a sheet that I can look at I literally can see everything in what you see here inside a spreadsheet that looks like as it brings up this that's powerful yeah so you get a spreadsheet and you can pick and choose which addresses you want don't want and you literally will get an export with everything you saw on that in a spreadsheet and you can run data points and the fields are always the same all right it's crazy crazy live broadcast of success I think so we I don't see any comments in the fee but I do see we have 11 people in a chat so I thank you all for testing trying to test out with us uh meanwhile probably do this while we'll do this again probably soon um bring some feedback put some comments in there um I'll be more willing to talk about different topics and areas that people are attracted to um just to see dhg interest but I definitely see a bunch of people see on the feed uh Chad to Connor uh Ken Susan Ryan all shout outs to these guys Cedric Edward Ryan Mark Jamar I give you guys Shout Out Feel Free in the chat you can always make a comment or if you have any questions at all um yeah Jamar would love to see us again great information thank you so much from I appreciate that um well I'd like to brainstorm some more what you do and see if we can hit some different topics while doing this and make sure we can really hone in on you know the win-win mindset how can we win win for everyone out there different angles and I think for me deal examples that people can present to us or to you exactly and say how can I make the most out of this opportunity from your experience what can I do with this asset what tax advantages stuff like that so I think that would be an awesome topic if we can get some people in there and uh you know share some knowledge I'm not looking to steal your deal Walter's not looking to steal your deal right but just sharing experience I think a deal examples are always fascinating um we can share our own but I think helping you guys out would really Intrigue other people to jump in here right awesome well we're two now analogous meanwhile to finish up off air um but I appreciate everyone who tuned in and checked out our live feed awesome all right guys appreciate it if you have any questions uh portal I'll put it in the chat box for everyone right um feel free to put it in there check out uh jkbholdings.com you'll see it all that or you can email me um or Walt as well um any questions you may have and uh we encourage everyone who's watching to post comment um in the group inside the financial Friends Network I think that that will make you a better investor um and also more supportive group for everyone so awesome thank you David thank you Walter appreciate it alrighty we are we are off air we gotta stop our recording.