Eddie Speed Unveils Secrets from 40 Years in Note Investing | Real Estate Notes Show

Episode: Eddie Speed Unveils Secrets from 40 Years in Note Investing @NoteSchool Dave's Goals and Plans: - Goal is to connect with seller finance creators doing it as a business on a regular basis rather than mom and pop note holders - Wants to help note creators understand what good notes look like so they can sell better and replenish capital - Focuses on connecting seller finance people with note buyers to share knowledge and information Nathan's Goals and Plans: - Observing cracks in the market with more defaults starting to creep in across portfolios - Seeing borrowers who have been paying for 5-6 years suddenly not answering calls and experiencing changes - Tracking reinstatements happening 3-4 times with borrowers continuing to fall behind Key Recommendations: - Create two notes instead of just one to help sellers better market notes and replenish capital - Understand and reach out to note creators to educate them on what constitutes a good note structure - Monitor market trends and economic indicators to understand how they will impact your portfolio - Follow a standardized formula/recipe for note creation rather than inconsistent structuring - Develop strong financial modeling techniques to evaluate notes properly Topics Discussed: - 40 years of note investing evolution and industry changes - Current market pressures and increasing defaults - Standardization of note creation in the industry - Upcoming Note Expo event in Dallas - Seller finance note creation and buyer collaboration - Historical shift from mom-and-pop notes to professional note manufacturing Guest Insights: - Started in 1980 at age 20 through introduction via future wife Martha's father, a note industry legend - Pioneered direct mail to note holders in 1982 using courthouse research - Worked with Darius D'Angelo (We Buy Ugly Houses founder) around 1990 to create standardized note formula, which grew the industry from $75M to $500M annually - Has purchased approximately 50,000 seller finance notes and 20,000+ land notes over 40 years - Built financial modeling expertise and partial note execution (25,000+ partials), now focuses on educating industry on best practices - Biggest mistake was not understanding market trends and impact early enough, now heavily emphasizes data-driven decision making welcome back to another real estate notes show this week we'll be talking about 40 years of being in the notes space it's exciting time before we get jump into that my partner in crime I'm Dave putz from jkp Holdings Nathan Turner hello hello how are you good man how have you been it's been good it's been good it's been a busy fall heading into a busy uh late fall into the end quarter here but um rather be busy than board so that's good yeah yeah I think we were just talking off air before how things adjusting and changing in the note space that um wondering where the next curve is going to be but before we get into that you know what we've been doing in the not space for the last two years is diving into the Celler fan space um because as we said just a few minutes ago that is the real area where we're focusing so we're trying to connect all these seller creation people with Note buyers and talking and sharing information sharing knowledge so you could be a better not Creator and these note buyers can understand the note creation side a lot better so they can buy the assets these people are creating right yeah yeah we love to work together and and train each other on how we can uh how we can complement each other better and so yeah it's been a lot of fun I think actually over the last couple years in just kind of discovering a lot of this stuff and and uh we've got Eddie on today and he'll you know he's been around the block a couple of times and no surprise to him but that's all right yeah yeah and we're going to jump in with Eddie about his background for those who don't know who Eddie is and Stu about that we're going to cover that we're also to talk about the big upcoming note Expo that would be in just a few weeks so we're g to get into that um what have you been seeing recently in the notes space regarding assets have you seen your portfolio sh of change what you're seeing out there change what have you been seeing for my portfolio hasn't changed a whole lot but I we've have had some discussions with others and they're seeing some cracks uh where we're seeing a little bit more defaults starting to creep in and I think that's interesting it's not a surprise um this is what we've been saying is going to happen H and it's going to be really interesting just to watch over the next you know six 12 24 months and just kind of see what is coming and what kind of a what kind of a Fallout we're going to see and that'll be interesting and I'm sure Eddie have some opinions on that as well yeah absolutely I'm seeing the same thing coup assets have started def faulting things are just starting to act weird the borers are saying listen we're not even answer our phone calls which we've been they've been paying for five six years now and just trying to find out what's been changing has been really unique um some borrows have reinstated three four times and they just keep falling behind and saying what happening so it's really curious um are you seeing supply of assets changing in the last month or so not a huge shift not a huge shift um my goal is always to kind of connect with like last time we talked with Marco he talks about just buying those mom and pop notes my goal is more to connect with those who are doing it as a business where they're creating notes on a regular basis and then looking to sell those notes so I I haven't seen a huge shift in that um there's still a lot guys out there doing that and loving to connect with those guys and see how we can work together yeah absolutely I think that's that's a key thing right now is that understanding and really reaching out those people explaining to them what a good note looks like so we can really help them uh create better notes and we talk about really leading and I'm sure Eddie will talk about is creating two notes instead of just one it'll help a lot of people really sell the note better and be better creators in replenish their Capital absolutely so yeah well without further Ado we're gonna bring on the legend Mr Eddie speed how are you my man I'm good how are you good good to see you again you look healthy I'm sure you're a lot warmer than we are here in Jersey yeah no actually it did cool off here in Texas it was in the 90s last week so yeah so glad of that but uh it'll be pretty for note Expo I think as it usually is yeah very good yeah looking forward it's coming up quick here it is so before we dive in note Expo which we I spent a lot of time for those who don't know note Expo it's a huge event in down Dallas Eddie for those who don't know you who are you how did you get introduced to note investing give us a little bit of background about you well I was not very strategic in finding the note industry uh it sort of found me I was dating a pretty blond-headed girl named Martha and her dad was one of the ERS and and legends in the note space from the beginning and uh he became my father-in-law later and uh but um yeah he introduced me to the business I was I was 20 years old this was in 1980 and so Martha and I married in 82 so I've essentially kind of served an apprenticeship with them uh he and his partner for a couple of years and then Martha and I married in 1982 and so then we kind of moved to the market which was Dallas 4 to buy notes now that wouldn't necessarily be a truth today but it was a truth back then that you kind of moved to the market so they had another guy in Houston and I had a choice between Atlanta and Dallas and of course I'm a real cowboy and had lived in Texas before and uh so why not do that right so we moved to Dallas Fort Worth and we've been buying notes here since 1982 and you've been buying notes all over the like all over uh I know you you're from Texas and you of course Texas notes are really great notes um tell everybody about like what have you seen it shift like you got started in 1980 1982 how's it shifted over the years so I started in 1980 and I would say for the first you know about 10 years in the industry predominantly you bought notes from just Mom and Pop That owner financed a property a lot of these notes were created because of how interest rates so there was a big pile of inventory of those kind of notes and it's really just what we knew to do I kind of perfected the technique of dropping mail to people that owned a note I did that in 82 so I'm the first guy to ever drop mail to any customer either a house or a note and say do you want to sell it and I just did it by Courthouse research so it was a very crude process but you know you've always got it there wasn't there there wasn't there wasn't even a trail you had to take a machete and blade whatever you want yeah you know and uh so anyway we kind of figured that out and we so we used couple of techniques I bought some notes from some Real Estate Investors in the 80s in fact a guy that really that changed the trajectory of my business I bought some notes from him probably around 1987 and his name was kand D'Angelo right he's the guy that founded home vestors right We Buy Ugly Houses so around 1990 he basically came to me and he says Eddie note buyers are inconsistent they don't pay what we think we're when we create notes and then we go to a note buyer they don't pay the price that we think that they should pay and I said that's because your notes are very inconsistently structured and drawn up yeah right and so we're now telling each other we're cons inconsistent well that LE leads to he says Eddie I have a franchise he says if you go to a McDonald's anywhere in the world I that Donald's Quarter Pounder taste the same he said that's what we need for notes and so nobody had ever done this and we sat down literally with like six easels and six white boards around 1990 in my office every Saturday morning for about three months and we really mapped out a a recipe of how to make the best notes and I started that literally in 1990 and it kind of revolutionized the industry they went from an industry that bit about $75 million wor the business a year to about 500 million a year in about two or three years yeah so so it really became the case and what I learned is no real estate investor knows how to make notes until they have instruction and guidance so we along with others I'm not saying we're the only ones we may have been the first but we're we're the only ones that give people a matrix give people a recipe give them a formula today and say we want you to make the best notes whether you sell us the notes you sell them to David putts or Nathan yeah we what we want good for the industry and I think that if we'll have an abundant mentality we'll all do that absolutely and that's kind of that's kind of from then till now I bought 50,000 seller finance notes and the reason I've done that is because I built a manufacturing system makes sense what have you what mistakes have you made over the years that you've adjusted or shifted what are some of the bigger mistakes you've made mistakes mistakes I don't think I've made any listen I had to be the dumbest guy you've ever met because nobody's made more mistakes in this industry than I mean that's 100% on that one that is a um you know what I really think is when I look back um what I did then and what I think that we are talking about now is I took seller financing and kind of pasted Mortgage Banking over the time top of it I took Mortgage Banking Concepts and pasted over the top of kind of a cowboy industry right and uh I bought a lot of land notes I probably bought 20,000 plus land notes so I know land notes pretty well uh as well and um so that's that's really kind of what I'm out there doing is trying to influence the industry I've I think my personal skill in the business is Financial modeling like developing Financial modeling techniques um my father-in-law and his partner invented the partial we've probably done 25,000 of them so there's a lot of people on Facebook like oh yeah I do partials well okay there's there's football too there's there's Elementary football and there's NFL right both are football yeah it may may not be at the same level and so we've tried to spread those things over the industry and spread truths the biggest thing uh biggest mistake I've made Dave I believe is misunderstanding the impact in the market and so not knowing enough about the trends and not really knowing how the trends were going to affect me and and Nathan will tell you that I will wear you out now with data and facts and Market stats and stuff and it's because I don't want another one of those scars on my back yeah and then and you got to know the weather forecast yes absolutely and then I'm curious when did you start teaching because my so and and reason I asked partly is yours was the very first note class I took back in 2009 I'm pretty sure it's down in Houston if I'm not mistaken I took a bunch of Real Estate Investors in the 90s okay home investor franchise's people like Mitch Steven people like that and I my job was to teach them how to make better notes okay so I was teaching I wasn't really a guru I didn't have note school I really did it then just to go help people make better notes so I could buy their notes and so I kind of started really teaching then and it wasn't really a class or there was anything like that and there was a note trade show around n around 2000 that the the called noteworthy it was a trade show and a newsletter and John Richards who owned it had had gotten leukemia and he taught it with a with a long friend of mine named Hank harenburg and so Hank called me and says would you come teach this class with me and I that's how I got started teaching and that was around 2000 wow okay come a long way since then been a little time on stage since then yeah so with notes and everything else going on the adjustment and change what are some of the biggest mistakes note creators have made over the years you've seen that those who are watching should avoid making what are some of the top three you would say mistakes you've seen in paperwork um well the most valuable notes look like a mortgage Bank you know you have Fanny May loan docks you have all the all the documentation you have the loan app you have the verifications you have a you know a stack right you know a a paper stack they call it just things that make you look like a mortgage lender right and the loans are written very homogeneously you know Fanny May loan says something to us yeah FHA loan says something to us an SBA loan says something to us yet people seller financing and a lot of the gurus you know they're they try to do a bunch of cockamamy stuff you know and think it's cute or they think it's I don't know what they think but when you go in the secondary Market all that paperwork that's weird is worth less money yeah it just it won't trade in the marketplace at the same price and so if so so I figured out a long time ago this is our gift to the industry the industry does not know how to be a mortgage Banker the day you sell your property the day you owner finance you went from a real estate investor to a mortgage Banker that's what you are yeah and so now it's our job it's not you know they're great at what they do but they need us to help them be great at this and so if we just look at that as an industry responsibility then we become a great Network 20 listen seller financing is up 25% 2023 it's not we don't lack inventory we create a 100,000 notes a year Nathan you gonna buy 100,000 notes next how about you Dave you gonna buy 100 no plenty of inventory to share yeah the problem is the quality of the inventory yes and so the industry leaders in the note space have to go lead their seller financers to think like a mortgage banker and to help them do that so that they create a secondary market for their notes whether they decide to sell the notes or keep them the notes are going to be better they're going to stick and that is been an industry theme of mine literally since I helped home Busters in 1990 and yeah you know you know am I on my Soap Box about it I think our industry should be I think me and Nathan for the last couple years doing this show we've been on that soap box of preaching guys this is not a Fly by Night situation you can lose your entire life if you do things incorrectly you can lose a ton of money you can lose a lot of friends you can lose a lot of relationships doing it right is important it's not doing a paperwork on a diing you know dining table with a borrow and just saying hey give me 10 grand let's make it a deal it doesn't work that way well it's it's been tested Through Time right I mean I I believe that I've looked at three or 400,000 seller finance notes I mean I'm just kind of making that up to be honest with you because nobody could ever keep up with that over 40 something years you know 44 years now right nobody could keep up with it I'm just saying statistically I know what kind of what our look rate and our close rate is and if I've closed 50,000 and I know I I can say with Integrity I know I've closed more than 50,000 seller finance note deal so with that being said if you look back at all the loans that we looked at in past on or whatever right you know and so the the deal is is the industry has an opportunity to really straighten it up so you know I start out and say the formula is not very hard good property yeah I ask you Dave to speak at note Expo about good houses I have another land experts going to talk about good land you can't my dad used to say country expression you can't make a silk purse out of a s's ear okay so if you got a crappy piece of property you can't make good notes out of it yes and it and there's a whole lot of people out there claiming that you can particularly the land Guru thing there's some misguidance out there every one of them I'm not saying that but you know if you don't know what a sand lot is if you buy some of those notes you're going to learn yeah you might learn it in the way you weren't anticipating but you you're going to learn right and so and then you know good land and good houses that start that's the ingredient then good marketing how do you Market property in the in the correct way and and Nathan you're going to talk a little bit about that and I have another guy that's really good at it that's going to be on on stage at notex talking about what do they've learned about how to attract the best buyers let me tell you this Nathan if you put bad credit no no credit no problem in the ad or if you put no Bank financing needed will finance you in your ad you're G to attract bombs bottom of the barrel yeah you got it you're going to get what you advertise for and so those are the things that a real estate investor needs to know to just to make good notes and and those are the things that I try to spend time with helping people make good notes so like these are these are the ingredients you start with yeah I'm gonna make note of that because yeah I am I'm I'm talking about due diligence and that is one that uh I don't know that I've thought about in the past um because it's only been more recent that I've been buying seller finance paper uh before that it was all Bank paper so if it's Bank paper it's Bank paper then they're they're not saying that kind of thing in their ad but but that's a good piece is with the seller finance paper how did you Market this proper Ste some Thunder yeah here's the best ad you can ever write yeah private financing for deserving buyers with large Dam private financing for deserving buyers with large Dam don't even put seller financing in the ad seller financing to the consumer eyes means non-qualifying yeah so we talk about the down payment before we got on what's your feeling about down down payments do you think that there's a percentage of borrowers should come up with is there too much is there too little where's your thoughts on that um I think that down payment is in people's imagination and whatever you believe you can accomplish the average down payment for a conventional mortgage loan today is 19% cash down that's the national average for for Fanny Freddy loans that's just what it is interesting yeah and so people seller finance people with substandard credit and get 6% down and I'm thinking well H now down payment doesn't mean a sticky pay history right it doesn't mean because somebody pays 40% down that they're always going to pay super prompt so down payment is the buyer skin in the game their credit of how they've paid others is their historical measurement of how their how of their propensity to pay right so I think there's a combination of both I think you can always get 15% down every time I mean literally every time uh but I think you know I think land you can get a bigger down payment than that and once again you know you're going to have listeners on here oh that's not true and well I don't know I've only thought you know 3,000 portfolios of notes from Real Estate Investors right I mean I've only seen what they've done and then one guy says it's impossible and the guy that's 10 10 miles down the road from him I see him doing everything that I'm saying can be done and I've learned it's almost what you convince yourself of so I think we can influence the industry and help them see how to do better you know see if it's possible they'll do it they just haven't seen it I agree with I think that the my problem is we see sometimes when we see these assets oh I got 3% down I got 4% down and I'm saying that's just not enough skin the game right that borrower is limping into a deal and it becomes dangerous um we literally look for deals where it's at least 10% we want to see the borrow has some skin that they have the ability to save money on a regular basis well look look backwards guys look look backwards a little bit why are you seller financing somebody you're seller financing somebody because they're not perfect enough to go get top rate mortgage financing right well the mortgage credit availability the day the virus started was at 185 that was the index score today that score is right around 100 so that means about half the people that could qualify for a mortgage before the virus can't qualify today left them behind so why why look for the bottom of the barrel versus people that are just missed M that make sense yeah absolutely a high quality buyer who just can't get Bank just because something is quirky and just off eal go look at non-qm lending standards yeah go look at non-qm lending standards there there's almost 40% of Loan mortgage loan originations the date are non-qualified mortgages non-qm go look at what they think is a standard go look at their down payments go look at their credit standards that's who your competition is yeah does that make sense yeah yeah absolutely and don't you think they would deepen their standards if they thought they could get away with it oh sure yeah so so why not learn a lesson and that's that's when we look at at helping people build a box an underwriting box or a criteria box of how to create loans then we point to it and say this is the market and now a sudden we're going to give you some flexibility we think we understand uh I uh ITI and buyers better than the market does right and so there's certain thing green card holders right we think we understand certain market conditions better than there's certain things that we can be a little deeper in because of gosh we've been looking at this paper a long time right yeah yeah so anyway those are the ideas what I what I hope to do in this conversation is just continue what you guys talk about frequently which is yeah make sense seller financing so we did have a question um how to obtain their down payment and their quantity is one way to qualify there is there a huge difference between a tax return and savings two year for two years am I saying it correctly yeah I mean here's the thing about it you know I mean like we can all get nerdy and you know philosophy about you know people that you know have a lot of money in the bank and you know but yet they're not showing it on their tax return and you know so forth and so on you know one of the best things that happened because of Dodd Frank and there's not a lot of good things that happened because of it but there is it forced people to actually hire an an r&o let me say this about rml they're not all equal they are not all equal and I can tell you right now some of them that are fairly brand name are out there and they're not really verifying the income the way they need to they're they're sort of glossing over it and so we you know I'm I'm calling the industry out saying look what's what's ver if if if you state on your application Nathan that you make X dollars that is not verified income right let's name it and claim it yeah right they used to call them liar loans back in the old sub crime lending days yeah and so understand that I believe that a story has to make sense I I believe that everything about seller financing is pretty simple it's redeeming and unredeem factors we buy we we do less than perfect customers but they have to be perfect enough and there's a balance and this is a little bit of an art and and we find oursel you guys included we find ourselves in the industry teaching this art on a continual basis because it kind of is an art yes yeah yeah yeah and that's exactly right we we say well here's the criteria and they say well they didn't meet quite meet this but then they've got this instead and like actually yeah that's that's okay then that makes sense and you've got that unredeem and redeeming factor and they kind of balance themselves out depending on what it is in the situation but that it happens are you saying that when you say 700 credit score you're not talking about the combined credit score of right right so one of the thing cool I think about Yeti is that you put on a show education Master Class of knowledge in Dallas I've been going for years um I got shed through a friend of mine right we both know and it is amazing to hear the information coming from years of experience not two-year gurus years of experience with quality and really wanting to help and I think that is important for most people who are maybe on the fence about going to a note conference for first off and then saying note Expo coming up in a few weeks is where we want to be I think for me when I attend these sessions I'm sitting in in the seats with years experience taking notes because of the information because of the experience and because of the notoriety of the people who are speaking for those who are brand new to this space or just on that fence can you share a little bit more about node Expo how it came about and what can they expect at no expo well not Expo is more than a dozen years old and the reason I formed it is because I looked around the industry and I'm I'm not being disrespectful or respectful I'm just calling this I'm just calling it what it is the people that were putting on Note trade shows were not in the business they didn't know who was real they didn't know who wasn't they didn't know what was really happening the industry but yet they had a trade show right and I thought well that's not you know they they may be sincere but they also may be sincerely wrong right and so uh I look at it and said we are the guys that are out there in the space we have an educational component so we can drag our her in there along with the other people and not make anybody feel like this is note School subliminal like it's not of that it's none of that right but we can go put out in the industry what we need and because we do own a school we have a few thousand people that attend a master class with us a virtual master class per year so they come to about a two-hour thing and we so that we can learn from them what they need to learn or what gaps that they have in their knowledge or where their what their what their pain is what their concerns are right we are very open to say man you guys take and put this in your chat box and let us know let us know let us know and we got some fairly smart people at work for us and they're also pretty dang good at like Ai and they can go take thousands of comments and melt those into things and then sort those into categories and so we came we came this year with Note Expo and we essentially changed the format and we did it because what we figured out people needed is they needed a sequential path of how to create and buy and and and what's what's a good note look like what's a bad note look like what do people that have learned learned how to do this figured out that maybe somebody in the audience just hasn't heard yet but we're doing it I I'm I'm not listen I've been to lots of trade shows right a lot and I know I know panels can be good and panels can be bad and I just said I've been to a lot of trade shows and I'm not talking about yours Nathan so I'm not picking on you at all but I've been to a whole bunch of trade shows and the panels are just oh my God I can't stand it and I want to cut my throat by the second panel that I sat through and I'm like screw that we ain't doing no boring panels we have one panel in two days and that's the seller finance Coalition and obviously you guys have supported us in that in the past I think having myself and Jeff Watson and Tracy and my wife Martha and you know people of various experiences that have been involved in it like that that panel is collaborative and it matters the rest of it is is putting you guys on stage and you got 20 minutes to go do a note talk that talks about a segment of your expertise y then the next part and like everybody up there there's not a loser up there everybody up there is a rock star that does this business well with integrity and with knowledge and we're putting we're we're building a sequential story that I think is how to make better notes or how to buy better notes or how to recognize a good note from a bad note that's really what it's about yes and by the way we got a crazy crazy inspirational speaker oh oh yeah good yeah so this guy has two Super Bowl rings he played for the Patriots he he is in charge of player Affairs for the NFL his name is Doctor Don Davis this guy is guy is tight and so he is our inspirational speaker he's we're very blessed our our MC Ron Eckles who you guys know is very very engaging and and very he he creates electricity right and he personal friends with Don and so we were able to get Don to come speak for us and then our second keynote speaker is a guy that that you guys know is like I consider him the smartest guy in the industry my friend K Thompson he is he's bringing technology to the mortgage industry he's kind of leading the industry in a way that's like lightning I mean it's it's out and so he's going to come talk about what that is and how it will affect industries even like ours in the future and uh so we've got some really we've got some really great speakers and I was I was meeting with Ron Eckles yesterday about the curriculum and I went through every speaker I talked about you guys I talked all these different people and stuff and I was exp I was given him the vision of what we were doing in note Expo like we're we're building this out as a story that nobody is too knowledgeable or nobody is too novice to to get this right you're going to get different levels depending on your experience sure not gonna leave anybody behind it's not going to make somebody run out there and go get a Coke because they're just bored to tears it's not going to be either one of those yeah and I was telling him this whole story and I said one of the things that you're going to find is is there's not a bad spot in the convention like like Saturday afternoon is just as tight as Friday morning yeah like it's like there's not a bad spot in it we did that on purpose and so we're really excited about what the Expo is is is going to do and and here's the last thing I would say can you tell I'm fired up about this yeah love it this note Expo is a community right it is a community of likeminded people it is a community of people that are go-givers it is a community of people that have a lot of experiences that you may not have it is a community of vendors that can be the boots on the ground that aren't your boots or that can do the things for you that you don't have expertise or license to go do and that is to me like if you look at all of those things that is why you really come is community community that genuinely cares that's not a bunch of stuff shirts walking around there that don't want to speak to somebody else it's great food and great breaks and all that stuff MH and that and what you learn from all the speakers becomes free so you said some really awesome stuff there and I wanted to chime in on one last part there is this new person first time coming what should they bring with them how should they dress like some of the basic questions that some people say I've never been to this am I wearing a three-piece suit do I have to go buy my own lunch um what is what should they expect in that kind of setup yeah so we'll have coffee breaks and we will have lunches and we will have a reception in the first day and so those are all things that are paid for so you don't need to go bring your Sac lunch um and you you know we'll we'll have coffee breaks so we'll we there's a lot the most money spent in all of note Expo by far which I write the check for by the way the most money spent is is for the food and and food and beverage right right and all that we do there and it's but it just makes it work and uh secondly how to dress okay well um you know you can you can wear your blue jean shirt or you can wear your your your nice Sports shirt like you're wearing Dave I'll probably wear a blazer yep and cowboy boots because I'm that's kind of how I am and about most every time you guys see me that's kind of how I'm dressed if you if you're if you want to wear a suit you can wear it you know like this is not quite like going to Hawaiian Falls Water Park okay so you're going to be a little north of that um and and know that you know I always think but you know the I would say modernday um business casual I agree is that fair that's that's exactly what I'm thinking about that business casual look professional you know don't come in here slumping it right because people judge you based on how you're dressed but you don't need to be wearing a suit and tie and everything else yeah um I'd bring a laptop or something to write on um definitely definitely write definitely bring something to write on uh bring a laptop bring your iPad whatever that looks like for you um so we'll make sure and and and have those times where it's like you know it's it's very intense and focus the it is a big stage so we hire a professional company that does this and does huge events so you know every the speakers are miked up they're on a they're on a standup stage there's great lighting it is filmed there is great lighting I mean it's there's a there's professional MC I mean there's things that we do that we're not we're not playing at the lowest level we're trying to play at the highest level that we can it's not inexpensive but it is valuable right and so it'll it'll look it'll feel like a pretty good siiz trade show uh our normal attendance is 425 to 500 right so people say how big is it and that includes the vendors but that's about that's about how big it is so it feels pretty big there's a lot of people there there's a lot of Engagement we'll have a tremendous amount of great vendors like tremendous amount of vendors that will be there to answer stuff and I'm going to put a couple of these vendors on stage that I believe can change the industry one of the vendors I'm going to put on stage is going to be talking about an alternative to Title Insurance oh already approved by Fanny May Freddy Mack FHA and VA it wow a million dooll policy cost a thousand bucks oh $300,000 policy cost 700 bucks that's awesome Maxes a thousand okay yes okay someone asked about your recordings will they be available for purchase yeah yeah okay and is there somebody else asked if there's a virtual option can they attend this virtually or is it just it's not virtual no it's a it's a it's you know we we will sell the recordings right sure but here's what I'm going to say to you the if it's virtual you're you're missing the community part yes exactly and and I know and I don't go like I used to I used to you guys know I used to be gone all the time and I don't go as much anymore I get to pick a little more when I want to go and stuff but I still I will tell you I'm as fired up about the community at note Expo as anybody I you know I'm really the host right I'm more fired up than anybody there about the community and connecting with you guys and stuff and so that's what we do and yes it's a little more trouble and yes you have to travel and all I get it but how many times have we been somewhere when we look back and say man I could have thought of a million reasons I didn't want to do it but it was worth it and I get it right we always talk about being away from family being away from your children spending $1,000 for a weekend away I'm going to tell you that is I don't know how many conference I've been to I'm sure not as many as Eddie but every single one I've never regretted going for both the education and the networking I would tell you me and N will say all the time is set some goals for yourself before going have some set things that you want to meet five new people you want to understand land buying you want to have some goals set that you have to achieve to make sure this trip time and money makes it worthwhile for you to attend and if you're not reaching those goals reach up to someone in the community and go I'm not reaching his goals I guarantee you someone could help you let's talk about the market for a second yeah yeah this is this is this is this is why you come okay I have had more people that have sold their rentals and owner financed them in the last 18 months than I've seen in my entire career this is a long time now right I've seen more people and that's because I simply can show them the math and show them why you can make more money than you can renting a house and if you're if you're a died in the world landlord and you think that's impossible then you haven't seen me pencil whip it yet because I promise I can do it and I've done this for like very very high level KW Keller Williams people and I as you guys know I'm in masterminds with a probably most of the top 500 house buyer so I've done this at people that play at a high level not I'm not just taking some amateur landlord that tones two rentals and hypnotizing them into I'm right the math shows you can make more money today in most cases seller financing your rent house versus keeping it as a rental second thing is multif family is down about 25% and every projection out there says it's down it's coming it's coming on down yeah so people are shifting their money from rent houses and syndications to notes it's a it it follow the money and follow the safety let let me ask you you guys a question I got $250,000 to invest I got $250,000 to invest I I like real estate so I can buy a rent house in Dallas Texas it'll rent for $1,800 a month 50% of all of that rent is going to go to expenses so I'm going I'm going to net 900 of the 18 00 in rent so $250,000 gets me $900 in income statistically if we take $250,000 it'll buy us $2,700 worth of note payments yeah and maybe that's two notes maybe that's not one so I fig I figure 65 bucks for servicing fee because I got two notes and not only not one sure it's going to net me 2635 bucks 900 2600 which one would you take 2600 every time that's why people want to know about notes yeah yeah and that's why you got to be there you got to be in the room I think people you miss on the networking you're missing on the experience and one of the things I think that most people don't realize and even with going to all the conferences out there they're surprised you're able to meet with the speakers and chat with them they're not some Flyin fly out person you're going to be spending time with them having lunch with them conversation with them you have the ability to reach and speak with someone with much more experience than you do we don't put we don't put speakers on stage that are untouchable right right that's not we're not going to do that I mean hey we're all pretty seasoned here right like we've all got a decent little resume of doing this yeah we're not We're not gonna put somebody on stage that's so untouchable that the audience like you know like we're not doing that right now Don Davis we expect him to stay with us two full days but we will obviously have a time where we can do pictures and do do stuff with him but everybody else they're here they're there for the show it's what they're doing and you're right it's a and there and those speakers view themselves like you guys are speakers they view themselves as part of our industry Community they want to talk to you yeah yeah absolutely so I would encourage you guys if you're interest going there's a link I'm putting inside the chats and all stuff use that link to get into it yeah and I would fly down there the night before um the reason for flying down the night before is because you literally will connect with everyone else who's there who's getting in and just start meeting people again I would say you know I'm going to give it a wrong B 50% of this is about the community and 50% is the education right you need need to be there for the education but you also need to be there to meet the people that same thing you can you can buy those recordings and that's fine you you're G to get a lot of really great information but without that connection that Community part of it you really only getting half half the value out of that um it it's so much I mean and Dave and I talk about this all the time it is so much about just being in person with people and just chatting face to face you know shaking hands grabbing a bite to eat whatever it makes such a difference so it's a huge huge thing to be there in person you could be friends for decades after meeting I've known Nathan by going to conferences right I know Eddie from being in conferences the reason we connect is because so you got to go right I get there's a Cess and some time I would just encourage you just fly down there right come down there if it doesn't work out I promise you it will never not work out that you can come back and say it didn't work and I will you know chew on that but but I'm going to tell you there's no way chance you ever walk away from this not having some kind of valuable teachable movement you can do or connection you've made to make your business better in 2025 it can't happen yeah same thing Dave every conference every single time I come home with something something that has changed my business my life you know connections I've made uh something I've learned from a speaker every time there has not been one conference where I've been sad that I went it's always been a benefit yeah if you have any other questions about this feel free to reach out um and we're going to wind it down now with you know Nathan's question but feel free to reach out if you have questions about the conference Curiosities you can go to note Expo uh and look at the you know sponsors as well as the speakers and see what the agenda's gon to be like yeah you won't be disappointed in the agenda if you're interested in notes right and if you're not interested in notes you should be yeah this isn't a clothing seminar okay so Eddie you've I mean you've been around for a long time and you've seen a lot of different shifts in the market and ups and downs here and there and different strategies and everything what do you see coming down the pipe what's what's coming our way in the next six 12 months um I think that the trend in seller financing is going to continue I don't think that a slightly lower rates are going to change the trajectory on how many people sell or Finance most people are seller financing to to serve the underserved buyer not to give people lower interest rates than mortgage rates right so I think the trajectory in seller financing is going to continue I think there are going to there're going to be some opportunities with non-performing I don't think it's going to be like some of the people are saying on the internet because I don't think they're very connected but I think there are going to be some opportunities with it um I think that there the market stat that that I looked at this morning is there is a m988 th000 loans that are delinquent and the loans that are in foreclosure and call that about 275,000 loans the average days delinquent are 1235 days wow so the there is a pinup inventory of delinquent notes yeah I think it's believed that after the elections that they're gonna there's going to be some dumps you know this is not going to be 2008 it's a different Market Condition it's a different set of circumstances but there are going to be some inventory scratching Dent loans are too pricey and I seriously doubt we're going to see a whole lot of people in our world aggressively buying scratch and dent loans banks are banks and hedge funds are buying these loans at yes yield ranges that are just not in in the range so the alternative is we have a seller finance world that there's 100,000 notes created every year the more we can help our industry do better the more they're going to make better notes the more they're going to have inventory of notes for us to buy and I think I think there is the runway for the next four years in seller financing I think's abundance yeah I agree with yeah I agree and yeah I don't think we're GNA see a 2008 like we say we've been seeing some cracks but I don't see it happening as the the big tsunami that we had back then well there's claiming things and there's de data things right I'm you guys know I run in some circles where you know guys literally make billion dollar Investments you know and yep and so I try to listen to them as to what they see in the market we are seeing some inventory that's getting moved around a little bit right now it's been it's been fairly Frozen a lot earlier in the year and we're seeing some stuff happening and we'll talk about that at node Expo and I'll have some couple of Industry experts with me up there to I'm going to do a little freak and Frack on inventory with uh with some Market guys that have been around a long time and stuff we we just try to call the ball what's real Y and we try to go chase the opportunity and I and I try to I use try to use experience to point people to here's the opportunity right and in and in theory you and I you we're we're we're competitors in a way but we're not y right we're we're industry friends y that if we go help the industry do better we're g to all do better yeah exactly yeah yeah absolutely well Eddie it was a pleasure having you on this Friday afternoon uh thank you for joining us we are looking forward to seeing you in just a week or so two weeks uh so come on down there in November fly down to Dallas we'll be out there the night before Thursday come shake hands say hello uh have a nice little meal and enjoy yourself and get out there and enjoy so Eddie again we appreciate you going live with us uh hold on for after hours and we'll see everyone in a few weeks take care everyone.